Civ Switching - Will it prevent you from buying Civ 7?

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

yep, it's an interpretation issue.

I could have just written these 5 words.

 

[TheGrayFox]

I'm just pointing that if you have access to all teams from the start or not, playing the seasons obey the same rules, points for winning a match, FIFA rules during a match, whoever score more goals wins, etc...

it's a difference in content, and a loss of immersion, fully agree, but the way you play is the same.

You don't have access to all the teams from the start in Civ VII though. In fact now playing the team you want is now locked behind having to play three seperated game rounds and make specific team choices in the earlier rounds that lead to me being able to play my favorite team

Again, it's a gameplay change, even if its the flavoring of the gameplay change that upsets people the most

yep, it's an interpretation issue.

Yeah on the end of the people who don't understand that Civ Swapping is a gameplay change, even if its the "thematic flavoring" of the change that upsets people the most

 

[Gedemon]

You don't have access to all the teams from the start in Civ VII though.

which was my point.

but whatever, I think I'll try it, because I don't realize it's impossible.

 

[TheGrayFox]

which was my point.

but whatever, I think I'll try it, because I don't realize it's impossible.

and my point is thats still a gameplay change

Not being able to play the teams you want and having the entire game's season/career mode split into three where you can only pick certain teams during certain times of the season would absolutely be a gameplay change for someone buying a Fifa game.

 

[pokiehl]

As engagement for Civ 7 remains very high, it seems like the dust is really settling on this issue and people have accepted it and become excited—the highest engagement is on discussion of Civ “paths” and who else might be included.

I rarely see people complaining about civ switching on other places of discussion; it’s mainly localized to some people here from what I can see.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

Yeah on the end of the people who don't understand that Civ Swapping is a gameplay change, even if its the "thematic flavoring" of the change that upsets people the most

Why is that comment necessary? Does it achieve anything other than to be belligerent and dismissive?

It's supposed to be fun to discuss things on a forum, not unpleasant.

 

[TheGrayFox]

Why is that comment necessary? Does it achieve anything other than to be belligerent and dismissive?

It's supposed to be fun to discuss things on a forum, not unpleasant.

I don't consider the truth and without a single insult to be belligerent or dismissive

No more than the insistence that the people who think you're wrong or disagree with you don't understand a word you're saying

As engagement for Civ 7 remains very high, it seems like the dust is really settling on this issue and people have accepted it and become excited—the highest engagement is on discussion of Civ “paths” and who else might be included.

I rarely see people complaining about civ switching on other places of discussion; it’s mainly localized to some people here from what I can see.

Have you actually observed other communities related to civilization? Most threads on Steam forums about civ swapping are extremely negative, the devoloper's stream literally erupted into Ls when showcasing the mechanic and any video about VII is full of comments about humankind 2. You can find countless topics arguing about or expressing disappointment in the change on reddit.

This idea that the dislike of Civ Swapping only exist here is completely wrong, even ignoring that many of the most vocally unsupportive probably just moved on.

 

[pokiehl]

the devoloper's stream literally erupted into Ls when

You use this exact phrase so often (“erupting in L’s”).

I didn’t see that and you literally never see comments like that on their videos or livestreams. Your focus on that phrase is interesting.

It’s always excited engagement or gameplay questions. People don’t even comment on Denuvo.

As for Steam, the Steam forums are among the most toxic and negative for any game. I never pay attention there. I think it’s a meme that Steam communities are just bad for a reason.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I don't consider the truth and without a single insult to be belligerent or dismissive

No more than the insistence that the people who think you're wrong or disagree with you don't understand a word you're saying

I wrote an extremely long post in which I acknowledged pretty explicitly that I didn't think you were wrong. I understand your interpretation; personally I still think it is problematic, but I accept it. Perhaps extending me a similar courtesy would help, rather than simply repeating that I am wrong and you are not. I'm really only here to have an interesting discussion, but that does require a bit of give and take.

 

[Gorbles]

You don't have access to all the teams from the start in Civ VII though.

You never have, in any Civ. game. Every single game launches with a subset of all possible civilisations to choose from (which is usually expanded on after release, except in the oldest example / examples). This is not a mechanical change.

Feel free to dislike the strictures that VII seems to be launching with (30 civs, ten per Age, etc), but don't try and present it as something new. That would not be telling the truth.

I don't think there's any disagreement that the Age structure is new, gameplay-wise. But choosing your Civ remains the same as it ever was, you just do it more times per game (again, assuming you're not playing a single-Age game, which we've been told is possible).

 

[TheGrayFox]

You use this exact phrase so often (“erupting in L’s”).

I didn’t see that and you literally never see comments like that on their videos or livestreams. Your focus on that phrase is interesting.

because it's true. Were you watching the live showcase? The stream wasn't very receptive to the idea of swapping many calling it a Humankind rip off and at one point there were literally people spamming Ls

It’s always excited engagement or gameplay questions. People don’t even comment on Denuvo.

I've seen multiple people comment on Denuvo outside of this community

As for Steam, the Steam forums are among the most toxic and negative for any game. I never pay attention there. I think it’s a meme that Steam communities are just bad for a reason.

Well yeah if you just close your eyes and go "those other communities are too toxic and negative, so they don't count" then it would seem like Civ Swapping is a lot less controversial than it is

 

[TheGrayFox]

You never have, in any Civ. game. Every single game launches with a subset of all possible civilisations to choose from (which is usually expanded on after release, except in the oldest example / examples). This is not a mechanical change.

What...?

are you trying to tell me that I couldn't pick my civ and the civs I played against for the whole game in past civilizations?

Feel free to dislike the strictures that VII seems to be launching with (30 civs, ten per Age, etc), but don't try and present it as something new. That would not be telling the truth.

I'm legitimately confused. Do you think that past civ titles locked you from playing civs you want? What are you even talking about?

I don't think there's any disagreement that the Age structure is new, gameplay-wise. But choosing your Civ remains the same as it ever was, you just do it more times per game (again, assuming you're not playing a single-Age game, which we've been told is possible).

What universe do you live in where you think choosing your civ remains the same as ever?

Can I start the game as America and end the game as America? No i can't, so you are objectively wrong

 

[pokiehl]

because it's true. Were you watching the live showcase? The stream wasn't very receptive to the idea of swapping many calling it a Humankind rip off and at one point there were literally people spamming Ls

As far as I can remember, this didn’t happen. Maybe you’re misremembering? Do you have a screenshot? Twitch and YouTube streams have chat replay.

 

[TheGrayFox]

remember, this didn’t happen. Maybe you’re misremembering? D

I don't think the livestream was as positive towards the change as you seem to remember bud

 

[pokiehl]

View attachment 707095


I don't think the livestream was as positive towards the change as you seem to remember bud

Two people posting “L” on a first reaction isn’t “erupting in L’s.” I think the hyperbole takes away from your point.

My first reaction was negative too. Hence my initial point about the feeling tapering off

 

[Gorbles]

What...?

are you trying to tell me that I couldn't pick my civ and the civs I played against for the whole game in past civilizations?

No, I'm not.

I'm legitimately confused. Do you think that past civ titles locked you from playing civs you want? What are you even talking about?

The rough FIFA analogy isn't helping anyone, but basically the complaint is "I can't play the civilisation I want".

Why can't you? Because they're locked behind an Age, bearing in mind a single-Age play is possible? In what way can you not play as the civilisation you want? Have I missed something about single-Age play where the developers have conclusively barred us from choosing a civilisation from that Age to play, in that Age? If I have, do you have a direct source that evidences this?

(edit - my point was more that nearly every single Civ. game launches with less civilisations than it ends with. Does that mean previous games locked you from playing the civ. you want, because said civ. wasn't in the game upon release?)

What universe do you live in where you think choosing your civ remains the same as ever?

Can I start the game as America and end the game as America? No i can't, so you are objectively wrong

Starting and ending the game with the same label over the top of your alt-history USA is not the same as choosing your civilisation. You still make the choice. The aesthetics (including the name) obviously change in each Age. But you're the one who chooses, in each Age, what civilisation to use.

As for "objective", you have a habit of overusing it, particularly to describe opinion. It doesn't strengthen your point; it adds no value. I gently suggest working on good faith discussion, instead of "I'm right / you're wrong". If you can't understand the point I'm making, I'm happy to clarify, but you also have to want to understand (even if you disagree, or believe that your opinion is closer to some kind of objective truth than mine).

I don't think the livestream was as positive towards the change as you seem to remember bud

Two people saying "L" sure doesn't seem like spamming, or even "erupting", but maybe we understand the words differently.

 

[TheGrayFox]

No, I'm not.

The rough FIFA analogy isn't helping anyone, but basically the complaint is "I can't play the civilisation I want".

No that's not the only complaint here

Why can't you? Because they're locked behind an Age, bearing in mind a single-Age play is possible? In what way can you not play as the civilisation you want? Have I missed something about single-Age play where the developers have conclusively barred us from choosing a civilisation from that Age to play, in that Age? If I have, do you have a direct source that evidences this?

Why can't I? because they're locked behind ages system and I don't want to play single age games when this is a series known for its campaign of the entirtity of human history

Again it's a gameplay change. Going "well you could just play one age". No i don't want to, this is part of the problem

(edit - my point was more that nearly every single Civ. game launches with less civilisations than it ends with. Does that mean previous games locked you from playing the civ. you want, because said civ. wasn't in the game upon release?)

That point is completely seperate from what is actually being complained about and quite disingenious

Starting and ending the game with the same label over the top of your alt-history USA is not the same as choosing your civilisation. You still make the choice. The aesthetics (including the name) obviously change in each Age. But you're the one who chooses, in each Age, what civilisation to use.

Please just stop

As for "objective", you have a habit of overusing it, particularly to describe opinion. It doesn't strengthen your point; it adds no value. I gently suggest working on good faith discussion, instead of "I'm right / you're wrong". If you can't understand the point I'm making, I'm happy to clarify, but you also have to want to understand (even if you disagree, or believe that your opinion is closer to some kind of objective truth than mine).

Civ swapping as a designed mechanic in this game is objectively changing the way the game will be played . The end

Two people saying "L" sure doesn't seem like spamming, or even "erupting", but maybe we understand the words differently.

The actual point many of you seem to be missing is that the stream was OVERWHELMING negative towards the change. It actual doesn't matter how many Ls were posted, that's just pedantic

 

[Siptah]

I like the FIFA analogy. It means that civ VII is the first one where a team is fixed to its league. Before, you could play Real in the Premier League and Juve in Ligue A. Now you actually have to stick to the league to which they belong. I.e., if you want to play Mughals only, you start in the Modern Age.

 

[TheGrayFox]

I like the FIFA analogy. It means that civ VII is the first one where a team is fixed to its league. Before, you could play Real in the Premier League and Juve in Ligue A. Now you actually have to stick to the league to which they belong.

yes Shawnee in the Exploration Age and French/British in modern age only are surely in the league to which they belong historically

 

[ombak]

yes Shawnee in the Exploration Age and French/British in modern age only are surely in the league to which they belong historically

You complain about disingenuous or pedantic replies and then reply in this manner. It's one of the reasons you come off as hostile though you don't intend to.

The point made was that "teams" are restricted to a "league" is like "civs" are restricted to an "age". Whether devs picked the right "league/age" is irrelevant to this analogy.

And what's worse is I suspect you got the entire analogy and might think you're making some insightful point about how the right "league/age" is relevant here, but the analogy doesn't require that at all.

At best you fail to make a point but it's still in your head and might come out later in a more considered post, something I know I was often guilty of in forum conversations. I encourage you to not be so quick to reply, at least if you don't want to engage in some of the behaviors you accuse others of.