Koning
Warlord
Yeh, but Firaxes chose just 18 civs, too ensure enough attractive civs are left for the
expansion packsThis is already better than the 16 original civs of civ3. Hopelfully they include at least 10 new civs per expansion pack.
Civ V Civilizations Roster
- Thread starter Opera
- Start date
Yeh, but Firaxes chose just 18 civs, too ensure enough attractive civs are left for the
expansion packsThis is already better than the 16 original civs of civ3. Hopelfully they include at least 10 new civs per expansion pack.
Koning
Warlord
Certainly, including Singapore!
This is similar to my view. All 3 are germanic.
moreover if we consider more deeply, many europeon nations are of germanic roots.
But as I know this issue is also about sales, I expect english, french and german to have different civs. they were always seperate in old civ series as well.
And one more example to this 3 leader german approach:
I added "Turkish" to my post #357, not the ottomans. because turks are a more general terminology including historical and today's turkic empires.
else than ottoman sultans, the most famous leaders of these people are Attila and Teoman.
i really don't understand some friends.
a civilization is expected to be a major power in its era to be put into this game.
i don't support "let's put all nations to this game" approach. with this approach, any player from any country might ask his country in the game. he can be right by his side, but this is a game and not united nations. this game tries to represent some well-known powerful cultures in the world history.
OTOH, we know that some civilizations change name by time.and some civs in the game are of similar root. that;
aztecs and mayas, of central america.
babylonians and sumerians are also similar cultures
a civilization is expected to be a major power in its era to be put into this game.
i don't support "let's put all nations to this game" approach. with this approach, any player from any country might ask his country in the game. he can be right by his side, but this is a game and not united nations. this game tries to represent some well-known powerful cultures in the world history.
OTOH, we know that some civilizations change name by time.and some civs in the game are of similar root. that;
aztecs and mayas, of central america.
babylonians and sumerians are also similar cultures
Others may have Germanic roots, but they are not nearly so closely related as Prussia/German Empire and Austria. England was Germanic, but has been separate for a thousand years and has had significant outside influences (i.e. Normans and Norse), making it dramatically different. While Austria is no more different than Bavaria from other parts of Germany.
sure. that was what i meant. most are germanic while austria and HRE has more direct and close ties to today's germans.
most historic scholars support norse/norman/vikings are the same people who are of north germanic root.
anyway, we are not talking about races here.
i just wanted to say that i agree with 3 german leaders approach
1)hre
2)habsburg austria
3)prussia
climat
King
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2009
- Messages
- 736
I'm not polish and even I don't know much about them.
I just wanted to say that ciV should not be too euro-centric.
Seriously, Poland and Lithuania and Hungary as respective civs in the game?
Civ game is euro-centric even now. So, please do not make it worse.
Rowain deWolf
King
Well you could say the same for America and England or for Portugal and Spain
But the real difficulty is that those 3 are quite different from a political and partial from a geographical PoV. The Prussian Germany did not include Austria in any way or form. In real they were Opponents and Bismarck worked very hard to exclude Austria from any say in German matters.
The Habsburgian Empire on the other hand did include lots of countries that were never part of the HRE (Hungary, part of Ukraine etc etc ).
Besides contrary to say France or England the HRE lacked a real centralised gouverment and the Emperor of it was always only the nominal head with very little power over all those many states that were part of the HRE. In a civ-sense there was no Germany until Bismark unifying it.
I do hope that if they include HRE they wont make Charlemagne the Leader again as that is beyond stupidity (Charlemagne ruled over France, Germany and northern Italy, HRE is just one part of his empire and came into being some time later).
Pangur Bán
Deconstructed
I'm not polish and even I don't know much about them.
I just wanted to say that ciV should not be too euro-centric.
Seriously, Poland and Lithuania and Hungary as respective civs in the game?
Civ game is euro-centric even now. So, please do not make it worse.
Thanks for the clarification, Climat. Anyway, if you read my post, you'll see my argument was that these civs are to be preferred over Austria ...
That's different from just arguing they should be in the game, I hope you understand (though I think we should have one of them). The game though will undoubtedly be too Western Eurocentric rather than Eurocentric.
Huayna Capac357
Deity
The Civ games are way to Eurocentric, but I think Civ IV's list had the best balance. So we should just keep that right now, I think. But give each civ two leaders. If they wanted a "surprise" civ, they could:
Not have Spain and instead have Lithuania, Poland, Austria, or Hungary
Not have Mongolia and instead have Srivijaya, the Khmers, or Tibet
Not have the Mali and instead have Ethiopia, Kongo, or Benin
Not have Spain and instead have Lithuania, Poland, Austria, or Hungary
Not have Mongolia and instead have Srivijaya, the Khmers, or Tibet
Not have the Mali and instead have Ethiopia, Kongo, or Benin
climat
King
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2009
- Messages
- 736
I got it. One (of them) is enough for official selection and there will be mods of not-included civilizations, anyway. (I hope so.
) Honestly, I'm accustomed to that and not that concerned about it despite my last comment. Histrory is already Western/Eurocentric.
Huayna Capac357
Deity
I wouldn't say that history is Eurocentric. Up to 1400, China was more advanced than the West. For example.
i agree that BTS had a good balance. i expect civ5 to go the same way.
my list of expected civs were on post #357 and there were no surprises there, i suppose.
and i'm sure most guys agree on at least 10-14 of the civs, which are core elements till civ1, only a few rest are cloudy.
i don't expect such surprises. And I suppose for the starting 18, only zulus will be there from africa (and egyptians if u count it) the rest were not in any of the older civs
in EPs, they may exist.
i agree with this as well. the superior power of Europe is between 1000AD-2000AD.
besides, history is written by the winners.
i always wonder what historical truths were there in the great library of Baghdad, before Mongol leader Hulagu razed it.
Huayna Capac357
Deity
I still don't think the Zulus will make it into Vanilla. They simply weren't important or old enough, especially considering they would take a spot away from Mali, or Ethiopia, or Benin, or Kongo.
you are right, the main african historical powers were mali/ghana, nubians, ethiopians and congo.
but zulus were there since the very beginning, i expect to have them again.
Rowain deWolf
King
Koning
Warlord
I also expect the Zulu's to be in, just because they're well known and agressive Shaka a civ tradition.
Nonetheless, they hardly qualify. The Zulu controlled only a mediocre amount of territory, only during a short time (part of the 19th century), and didn't had big cities (the apex of great civilizations).
Ethopia (Aksum/Abbysynia) deserve the spot much more, being an continuous civilization for about two milennia. And the only African that has never been colonized by Europeans. Also Mali/Ghana/Songhay, the Kongo Kingdom, Benin and Greater Zimbabwe deserve a place in the game rather than the Zulu. Read about them on wikipedia in case you're interested. I hope some of them will be in the game!
Iván de España
Chieftain
This is my list of 18 civilizations and their each 3 leaders:
1) USA (CivI-V)
-Washington (CivIV-V)
-F.D.Roosevelt (CivIV)
-Lincoln (CivI-IV)
2) Germany (CivI-V)
-Bismarck (CivIII-V)
-Frederick I Barbarossa (CivII). He increased the imperial authority in Germany, fought the Pope, and conquered territories in Italy.
-Hitler. He conquered one half of Europe. If you dont like him emotionally, my next option is Otto I (first German Emperor) because Frederick II the Great was King of Prussia, not of all Germany.
3) Rome (CivI-IV)
-Julius Caesar (CivI-IV)
-Augustus (CivIV)
-Justinian (CivIV). He was considered Roman Emperor by his people and his neighbours and conquered Northern Africa and Italy, so he recovered the city of Rome.
4) Greece (CivI-IV)
-Alexander the Great (CivI-IV)
-Pericles (CivIV)
-Milciades the Younger. He defeated the Persians in the battle of Marathon.
5) China (CivI-IV)
-Qin Shi Huang (CivIV)
-Mao (CivI-IV)
-Hongwu, also known as Zhu Yuanzhang. He expelled out the Mongols and was the first Emperor of Ming Dynasty.
6) India (CivI-IV)
-Ashoka (CivIV)
-Chandragupta II. During his rule, the Gupta Empire achieved its zenith politically and culturally.
-Nehru. He was the first Prime Minister of India and was the leader of the Indian National Congress under the mentorship of Gandhi, who never ruled in India.
7) Arabia (CivIII-IV)
-Harun ar-Rashid. He made the Abbasid Caliphate to achieve its zenith in culture, science, power and economy, and is famous to be in The Book of One Thousand and One Nights.
-Umar I. He conquered Mesopotamia, Siria, Persia, and Egypt and was the first Caliph to be called Amir al-Muminin (Prince of the Believers).
-Muawiyah I. He conquered lands in Anatolia, defeated Ali in the fitna, and was the first Umayyad Caliph.
(Saladin wasnt arab but kurdish and didnt rule in Arabia. Abu Bakr ruled only 3 years)
8) Spain (CivII-IV)
-Phillip II (CivII). In his time, Spain was the most powerful political entity in Europe and the most advanced land in science, tecnology and culture.
-Charles III. He applied politics of Enlightenment for the intelectual, educational and economic innovation of Spain, established Spanish symbols (flag and anthem) for the creation of an Spanish nation, and helped US in the War of Independence.
-Liuvigild. In the time of this Goth king, Hispania (Spain) was the most powerful economically, the most peaceful, and the most advanced intelectually in Western Europe.
(Isabel or Isabella was just Queen of Castille. However, his husband, Ferdinand, was King of Aragón and Castille and was considered King of Spain abroad.)
9) France (CivI-IV)
-Louis XIV (Civ II&IV)
-Napoleon (Civ I&IV)
-Charlemagne (CivIV). He was the King of the Franks, the old name of the French, so he fits in this civilization.
10) England (CivI-IV)
-Elizabeth I (CivI-IV)
-Victoria (CivIV)
-Henry II. He had huge territories in France and increased his authority against aristocracy and the Pope.
11) Russia-USSR (CivI-IV)
-Stalin (CivI&IV). If you dont like emotionally, my next option is Peter the Great.
-Catherine the Great (CivII-IV)
-Ivan IV the Terrible. He made Russia into an Empire conquering huge territories in Asia, established a new code of laws, and centralized the power.
12) Egypt (CivI-IV)
-Ramesses II (CivI,II&IV)
-Hatshepsut (CivIV)
-Akhenaten, also known as Amenhotep IV and Amenophis IV. He leaded a religious revolution changing the Egyptian politheism into monotheism (probably he made influence in the first jews), and concentrated the authority in himself.
13) Persia (CivII-IV)
-Cyrus the Great (CivIII-IV)
-Xerxes (CivII-III)
-Darius I (CivIV)
14) Babylon (CivI-IV)
-Hammurabi (CivI-IV)
-Nebuchadnezzar II. He built the Hanging Gardens, expelled out the Assyrians, and conquered Judah and Jerusalem.
-Nabopolassar. He left the Assyrian dependence and founded the Neo-Babylonian Empire.
15) Aztec Empire, also known as Mexica Empire (CivI-IV)
-Moctezuma II, also known as Moctezuma Xocoyotzin (CivI-IV). No more skulls in his hat, he isnt a cannibal.
-Moctezuma I, also known as Moctezuma Ilhuicamina or just Ilhuicamina. He subjugated the Huastecs, Totonacs and Mixtecs.
-Itzcoatl. He laid the foundations for the eventual Aztec Empire conquering the surrounding cities, and did a religious and law reform.
16) Incan Empire, also known as Tawantinsuyu (CivIII-IV)
-Pachacutec (CivIII)
-Huayna Capac (CivIV)
-Manco Capac. He founded the Kingdom of Cusco, the origin of the Incan Empire.
17) Ethiopia (CivIV)
-Zara Yaqob, also known as Constantine I (CivIV)
-Ezana. He was the first Christian ruler of the world, organized the Ethiopian Church, and destroyed the Kingdom of Kush.
-Haile Selassie. He fought Mussolinis armies and is considered the black reincarnation of Christ by the Rastafari (his pre-imperial name was Ras Tafari, that means Lord Tafari).
18) Japan (CivII-IV). Id choose Mongolia before, but the game developers will be interested in selling more games in Japan.
-Ieyasu Tokugawa (CivII-IV)
-Mutsuhito, also known as Meiji Tenno. He abolished the shogunate and the feudalism, leaded the Meiji Restoration to modernize Japan and to make it into an industrial country and a great power, and conquered Korea.
-Minamoto Yoritomo. He was the first Shogun of Japan and founded the Kamakura Shogunate, 1185-1333.
1) USA (CivI-V)
-Washington (CivIV-V)
-F.D.Roosevelt (CivIV)
-Lincoln (CivI-IV)
2) Germany (CivI-V)
-Bismarck (CivIII-V)
-Frederick I Barbarossa (CivII). He increased the imperial authority in Germany, fought the Pope, and conquered territories in Italy.
-Hitler. He conquered one half of Europe. If you dont like him emotionally, my next option is Otto I (first German Emperor) because Frederick II the Great was King of Prussia, not of all Germany.
3) Rome (CivI-IV)
-Julius Caesar (CivI-IV)
-Augustus (CivIV)
-Justinian (CivIV). He was considered Roman Emperor by his people and his neighbours and conquered Northern Africa and Italy, so he recovered the city of Rome.
4) Greece (CivI-IV)
-Alexander the Great (CivI-IV)
-Pericles (CivIV)
-Milciades the Younger. He defeated the Persians in the battle of Marathon.
5) China (CivI-IV)
-Qin Shi Huang (CivIV)
-Mao (CivI-IV)
-Hongwu, also known as Zhu Yuanzhang. He expelled out the Mongols and was the first Emperor of Ming Dynasty.
6) India (CivI-IV)
-Ashoka (CivIV)
-Chandragupta II. During his rule, the Gupta Empire achieved its zenith politically and culturally.
-Nehru. He was the first Prime Minister of India and was the leader of the Indian National Congress under the mentorship of Gandhi, who never ruled in India.
7) Arabia (CivIII-IV)
-Harun ar-Rashid. He made the Abbasid Caliphate to achieve its zenith in culture, science, power and economy, and is famous to be in The Book of One Thousand and One Nights.
-Umar I. He conquered Mesopotamia, Siria, Persia, and Egypt and was the first Caliph to be called Amir al-Muminin (Prince of the Believers).
-Muawiyah I. He conquered lands in Anatolia, defeated Ali in the fitna, and was the first Umayyad Caliph.
(Saladin wasnt arab but kurdish and didnt rule in Arabia. Abu Bakr ruled only 3 years)
8) Spain (CivII-IV)
-Phillip II (CivII). In his time, Spain was the most powerful political entity in Europe and the most advanced land in science, tecnology and culture.
-Charles III. He applied politics of Enlightenment for the intelectual, educational and economic innovation of Spain, established Spanish symbols (flag and anthem) for the creation of an Spanish nation, and helped US in the War of Independence.
-Liuvigild. In the time of this Goth king, Hispania (Spain) was the most powerful economically, the most peaceful, and the most advanced intelectually in Western Europe.
(Isabel or Isabella was just Queen of Castille. However, his husband, Ferdinand, was King of Aragón and Castille and was considered King of Spain abroad.)
9) France (CivI-IV)
-Louis XIV (Civ II&IV)
-Napoleon (Civ I&IV)
-Charlemagne (CivIV). He was the King of the Franks, the old name of the French, so he fits in this civilization.
10) England (CivI-IV)
-Elizabeth I (CivI-IV)
-Victoria (CivIV)
-Henry II. He had huge territories in France and increased his authority against aristocracy and the Pope.
11) Russia-USSR (CivI-IV)
-Stalin (CivI&IV). If you dont like emotionally, my next option is Peter the Great.
-Catherine the Great (CivII-IV)
-Ivan IV the Terrible. He made Russia into an Empire conquering huge territories in Asia, established a new code of laws, and centralized the power.
12) Egypt (CivI-IV)
-Ramesses II (CivI,II&IV)
-Hatshepsut (CivIV)
-Akhenaten, also known as Amenhotep IV and Amenophis IV. He leaded a religious revolution changing the Egyptian politheism into monotheism (probably he made influence in the first jews), and concentrated the authority in himself.
13) Persia (CivII-IV)
-Cyrus the Great (CivIII-IV)
-Xerxes (CivII-III)
-Darius I (CivIV)
14) Babylon (CivI-IV)
-Hammurabi (CivI-IV)
-Nebuchadnezzar II. He built the Hanging Gardens, expelled out the Assyrians, and conquered Judah and Jerusalem.
-Nabopolassar. He left the Assyrian dependence and founded the Neo-Babylonian Empire.
15) Aztec Empire, also known as Mexica Empire (CivI-IV)
-Moctezuma II, also known as Moctezuma Xocoyotzin (CivI-IV). No more skulls in his hat, he isnt a cannibal.
-Moctezuma I, also known as Moctezuma Ilhuicamina or just Ilhuicamina. He subjugated the Huastecs, Totonacs and Mixtecs.
-Itzcoatl. He laid the foundations for the eventual Aztec Empire conquering the surrounding cities, and did a religious and law reform.
16) Incan Empire, also known as Tawantinsuyu (CivIII-IV)
-Pachacutec (CivIII)
-Huayna Capac (CivIV)
-Manco Capac. He founded the Kingdom of Cusco, the origin of the Incan Empire.
17) Ethiopia (CivIV)
-Zara Yaqob, also known as Constantine I (CivIV)
-Ezana. He was the first Christian ruler of the world, organized the Ethiopian Church, and destroyed the Kingdom of Kush.
-Haile Selassie. He fought Mussolinis armies and is considered the black reincarnation of Christ by the Rastafari (his pre-imperial name was Ras Tafari, that means Lord Tafari).
18) Japan (CivII-IV). Id choose Mongolia before, but the game developers will be interested in selling more games in Japan.
-Ieyasu Tokugawa (CivII-IV)
-Mutsuhito, also known as Meiji Tenno. He abolished the shogunate and the feudalism, leaded the Meiji Restoration to modernize Japan and to make it into an industrial country and a great power, and conquered Korea.
-Minamoto Yoritomo. He was the first Shogun of Japan and founded the Kamakura Shogunate, 1185-1333.
