Civ VI Play-Along: Violent Science Victory with Macedonia

[Navystorm]

I'll join if about - probably free Sat afternoon and Sunday. UK time. Happy to play the same or a different map - haven't had time to complete it yet although have had a good start (for me).

 

[yung.carl.jung]

So, there was a dom victory at t122, what was the best science victory?

only 3 ppl played this map I think.. my game is still at t130 or smth, not finishing before t180 i think

I'll join if about - probably free Sat afternoon and Sunday. UK time. Happy to play the same or a different map - haven't had time to complete it yet although have had a good start (for me).

Thats great, saturday afternoon is prolly free for me, too so we would already be 3

 

[MIS]

So I don't think post DLC05 patch the same time will be possible, because the archer rush is slower to get started. Do people agree with that?

 

[yung.carl.jung]

..not if we play with the new toy. I havent tried her out yet, but the bonuses seem extremely strong imo.

 

[JamesCivFan]

Which new toy? What did I miss?

 

[Navystorm]

I'm on Mac - so no new patch or Nubia for me yet.... for probably best part of a month! Although its usually OK because you can read on here how people find the patch before you actually play it.

 

[JamesCivFan]

Ah yes. I just saw it. It said something about making districts cost 10% less. This should be good.

EDIT: I got the new patch but it broke the CQUI Mod. Oh well. We can still use the vanilla UI to play tomorrow. I hope the author updates it soon.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I'm on Mac - so no new patch or Nubia for me yet.... for probably best part of a month! Although its usually OK because you can read on here how people find the patch before you actually play it.

Wait, but do Mac Users get the patch though? I really hope we can still play together. Since the new Civ isnt available for you and since Archers were nerfed I have been thinking a lot.. What about Scythia? Archer changes dont affect you and the Saka stay relevant for far longer than the regular Archers do.

 

[JamesCivFan]

Wait, but do Mac Users get the patch though? I really hope we can still play together. Since the new Civ isnt available for you and since Archers were nerfed I have been thinking a lot.. What about Scythia? Archer changes dont affect you and the Saka stay relevant for far longer than the regular Archers do.

His districts will also be 10% more expensive. That's pretty important, too. Oh and also, you need 45 gold to upgrade Slingers into Archers now. You're damn right they got nerfed up the ass.

 

[Navystorm]

Darn it. No won't get the patch till Aspyr port it over to Mac - usually takes about a month, its a real drag. Might have to miss this one then, as I think it'll probably get a bit confusing having two different versions to discuss! Still, if you post up the map you roll with random seeds etc. and don't include Nubia, I can have a crack pre- and post-patch and see the difference? Unless map seeds and such change with the patch...

 

[kb27787]

Wait, but do Mac Users get the patch though? I really hope we can still play together. Since the new Civ isnt available for you and since Archers were nerfed I have been thinking a lot.. What about Scythia? Archer changes dont affect you and the Saka stay relevant for far longer than the regular Archers do.

If the OP wants to post a nice Nubia domination map (flat lands kinda like this one) I think you'll find them quite enjoyable to do domination with... (tbh I just tested them and their ranged bonuses, esp. the increased XP gain and 3-move archers are quite OP... you get +12 strength in promotions pretty soon and basically just shred whatever pathetic army that comes at you... all the way until you face knights).
Normal archer is nerfed a bit, but nothing at the level to where archer rush becomes invalid... It just means you'd be best off building slingers since they still cost the same, and agoge slingers still finish in 2 turns, and burst-upgrading them (that probably means you have to save gold not buying tiles) for a sudden, hopefully decisive push.

Saka (having only one ranged) in a lot of circumstances (esp. VS cities) downright suck and lose to archers. If playing as Scythia it is only horsemen horsemen horsemen and nothing else. (and pray you get two horse tiles and find some way to deal with the horse barbs) their vampire ability has been nerfed by almost half (from 50% to 30%) and hence, are brought somewhat down to earth a bit.
Greece (already strong before the patch being further buffed) would also make a pretty enjoyable game. Esp with district cost reduction and half priced TS... they can get crucial CS like Kumasi, Kabul, etc.

 

[JamesCivFan]

I just had another go with Macedon. The Archer nerf really hits early game conquest hard. You need 1.5x times the gold you used to need to upgrade Slingers and Archers are just so expensive. I got attacked early by England while I was in the middle of dealing in a nasty Horse barb camp. I played until T76 where I was about 10 turns away from Stirrups and had 6 Hetairoi already built but I think I was simply too late to the party. I conquered 3 of her cities but it took way too long because of the weak Archers. I think we need to come up with a new early game plan to overcome this weakness (unless you play as Nubia).

Any ideas?

 

[kb27787]

I just had another go with Macedon. The Archer nerf really hits early game conquest hard. You need 1.5x times the gold you used to need to upgrade Slingers and Archers are just so expensive. I got attacked early by England while I was in the middle of dealing in a nasty Horse barb camp. I played until T76 where I was about 10 turns away from Stirrups and had 6 Hetairoi already built but I think I was simply too late to the party. I conquered 3 of her cities but it took way too long because of the weak Archers. I think we need to come up with a new early game plan to overcome this weakness (unless you play as Nubia).

Any ideas?

Nothing you can do about getting slowed down by horse camps (other than restarting so that you don't spawn near horses) 6 hetairoi at t76 is not bad... (it's not the number of hetairoi that matters... it's whether or not you've managed the GG... if you have GG, 3-4 hetairoi with ram will take any capital the first 100 turns)... no need to rush them to knights since, as I mentioned, the jump in strength is not that huge if you have GG. But of course, if going domination, always take the capital and conquer/get in a peace deal, cities that are crucial to your logistics (allowing you to cross a river or access a choke point) but ignore the rest and take the gold in a peace deal as soon as possible so you can turn to your next victim.

Archer rush still works fine... it still fails on rough terrain and is still weak to garrisoned archers (so you must withdraw and move to attack another city to lure the AI's garrisoned archer out so you can kill it) but other than that on open space it still works like normal (as long as you don't get impatient and rush for the AI's city... you just need to sit there and kill their units over and over until you reach critical mass).

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Hmmh, actually there are a few Civs that do not rely heavily on Archers. Rome and Sumeria comes to my mind.

@Navystorm

Who really cares about different patches though? Yes, our games wont be exactly the same, but 10% district cost is hardly the world. We should still just do it. Only problem is we need a pre-match map to play on, no? I assume you do have the Macedon DLC? I have plenty of Macedon maps that are decent

 

[JamesCivFan]

@kb27787 can you tell me the steps to get a fast GG? I never seem to be able to get one.

 

[kb27787]

@kb27787 can you tell me the steps to get a fast GG? I never seem to be able to get one.

Basically luck. Run strategos (which you'd get anyway from going for the +50% cavalry card) and kill enough units (barb scouts even) with hetairoi... so make sure they get the last hit on units. If lots of AI goes for encampments then you might take forever to get the GG... and it makes such a huge difference... I'd rather have 4 hetairoi at 45 strength than 6 at 35 strength... for melee units attacking cities is extremely painful if your combat strength is not much higher than the city's. However, eventually you should be able to get one... and most likely it will work for hetairoi (depends on if it's ancient/classic or classic/medieval)

 

[Navystorm]

@yung.carl.jung OK - Well I'm game. Yep I've got all the DLC's except Nubia now. Prob looking like mid-afternoon Saturday for me, some family visiting around lunchtime.

My Playthrough So far...

Spoiler :

Playing the community game Macedon map at the moment - had a really excellent start, 23 cities at turn 100 after nabbing settlers early from Russia set me off on the right foot. Formed 2 armies archers and warriors soon joined by UU's, one went north, knife through butter for Russia and France and the odd city state, Norway caused a few more difficulties but have seen them off now leaving them leaving them a city to dwell in. Southern army went through Spain easily, a few city states and Germany.

Felt pretty good at that point, but the following 20 turns or so I've pretty much ground to a halt, I'd sort of circled round Japan, but they DoW on me when I had very few units nearby. Got Civil Engineering now so can see them off causing many problems with my Walls, but not in a great position to mount much of an offensive. Hoards of barbarians around Germany's territory took some clearing up, and now I've started having a go at Kongo (who were next in the path of my southern army) but they're walls are too strong, my units not far enough ahead, and I made a mistake and lost my battering ram, which I now can't build any more.

So It's around turn 100 - 120 I start to feel like I've made strategic mistakes but I'm just not sure where. This is where I really want to improve, I'm clearly doing something wrong, or not doing something I should to get these really quick SV times. Production in my cities just isn't that high, once I get to rocketry I know its gonna take an age to build the spaceport - My highest production cities don't have much I can chop. Be really interested in seeing how you all manage it...

 

[JamesCivFan]

@yung.carl.jung are you able to play today after all?

 

[Navystorm]

Turn 214 Science Victory

Spoiler :

So the first part of my write up was earlier in this thread, but after regrouping around turn 120, I peaced out with Kongo and put some of my research into some better military tech. Once I had some field cannons, each with 4 promotions I focussed my attacks on the much softer Japan, rolling them over fairly quickly (although would have been much quicker if I'd managed to retain any siege towers or battering rams). Once I got flight, then rocketry around T180 I think, I built a bomber and decimated England. Pumped out campus projects everywhere I could, hoping I could get a decent space GS. Stuck all my traders in my Capital and had to decide whether to quickly build Ruhr or go straight for the longer spaceport build. Went Ruhr, which I still don't know if it was the right decision, then spaceport and all the space projects. No other city had decent enough production to be worth building a second spaceport. Took about 25 turns to build the spaceport, so it was just a case of waiting. Managed to get Sagan just in time for the last Mars project.

Pretty pleased with this finish time - certainly my fastest thanks to Macedons abilities and having a singular focus. No doubt could be significantly improved by better players than me. Certainly avoiding some mistakes like losing my siege units would have made some late conquest quicker - although I'm not sure that would have translated to a much quicker SV finish. Could have won by Domination quite a lot earlier, but thats not the point here. It's the age to build the spaceport that always gets me... don't know how to best bring that time down.

Not sure how to upload screenshots - so will edit this post when I've worked it out!

 

[JamesCivFan]

Turn 214 Science Victory

Spoiler :

So the first part of my write up was earlier in this thread, but after regrouping around turn 120, I peaced out with Kongo and put some of my research into some better military tech. Once I had some field cannons, each with 4 promotions I focussed my attacks on the much softer Japan, rolling them over fairly quickly (although would have been much quicker if I'd managed to retain any siege towers or battering rams). Once I got flight, then rocketry around T180 I think, I built a bomber and decimated England. Pumped out campus projects everywhere I could, hoping I could get a decent space GS. Stuck all my traders in my Capital and had to decide whether to quickly build Ruhr or go straight for the longer spaceport build. Went Ruhr, which I still don't know if it was the right decision, then spaceport and all the space projects. No other city had decent enough production to be worth building a second spaceport. Took about 25 turns to build the spaceport, so it was just a case of waiting. Managed to get Sagan just in time for the last Mars project.

Pretty pleased with this finish time - certainly my fastest thanks to Macedons abilities and having a singular focus. No doubt could be significantly improved by better players than me. Certainly avoiding some mistakes like losing my siege units would have made some late conquest quicker - although I'm not sure that would have translated to a much quicker SV finish. Could have won by Domination quite a lot earlier, but thats not the point here. It's the age to build the spaceport that always gets me... don't know how to best bring that time down.

Not sure how to upload screenshots - so will edit this post when I've worked it out!

You can simply upload screenies on imgur and post the links here. Nice victory, by the way.