Civ2 in Civ3

vmxa · Apr 8, 2009

Just a reminder that we are getting a lot of war happy, so it would be best to wait on Hannibal to DOW. If no DOW comes though we will have to start it up. The thing is that making peace without another DOW will force more lux support.

I confess I did not even look to see if any lux were in sight. I knew we were a long way form gaining them, so no need to spend time looking.

My point is to take care about making peace on the IBT as we could incur riots in a few places. At least if we make peace on our turn, we can adjust spending.

Rodent · Apr 10, 2009

Technicaly I am *Still* part of this SG, so I might lend a hand.

TheOverseer714 · Apr 10, 2009

I think that I will take a set, then you can Rodent. This one has been back-burnered forever, so any help is welcome.

vmxa · Apr 10, 2009

Rodent said:
Technicaly I am *Still* part of this SG, so I might lend a hand.

I don't know anything about technicalities, but if you want to jump back in, that is good. I do not even know what the original roster was, but I do know that Overseer was still interested in finishing it.

How should we proceed? Do you want to put up a roster or just play on as catch as catch can? IOW when someone post a set, just jump in and post an I got it. I am fine with either process.

The catch as catch can, does provide for dropping in or out with no one having to figure out who is up and all that. No matter how we proceed I would offer that we remove any rules for the amount of turns required. I would say play as many or as few as you are able.

Just post some idea that you are still playing, if you go over a week. Does that sound like reasonable method?

TheOverseer714 · Apr 10, 2009

It works for me.

vmxa · Apr 16, 2009

Make any progress on the home front? Did you start playing or is the save up for grabs?

TheOverseer714 · Apr 16, 2009

I've done 6 turns, making a little progress. Thinking that we are about ready to go to war with Carthage, WH or not. We need those Horses so we can build some Cavalry, Maces just aren't getting the whole job done. I have annihilated Egypts first stack, so now we're down to 1 and 2 units at a time. They do have Knights, which wuld be a problem without the jungle to slow them down. Japan keeps sending Swords and ACs now and then, so our north is tying up most of our available military. Once the armies heal, they will be marching on Carthage. I'll do probably 5-10 more turns and then pass it on.

vmxa · Apr 16, 2009

We surely need those horses. I cannot remember do have 3 armies and a pentagon going or only 2? No matter, just that it would make the war on Hannibal end sooner. Now that I think about it we already had MT, I guess I will have to load the save to refresh my memory.

TheOverseer714 · Apr 17, 2009

Did 12 turns, we are now at 600 AD. Began the war with Carthage, capturing 1 town.
Got another Leader, made a Crusader army. 2 armies are near Carthage(city) to begin assault either there or head to Hippo to grab the Great Wall.
Here is my turn-log:

Spoiler :

The save:

vmxa · Apr 17, 2009

I can't recall having a crusder army in any game, should be a gas.

vmxa · Apr 18, 2009

Ok, I got it. I know Rodent is still up in Rodent02. I think I wil be up after he posts, so at that time I will put this one back.

vmxa · Apr 18, 2009

Just an update as the log gets too long otherwise.

PRE:
Sell 9 barracks, 2 walls (in cities that will stay size 7+), 2 granaries (in size 12 that will not make settlers.

We have 3 warriors, but they are just doing MP and are fine. We have 3 archers. One is 3/3 and is doing MP as well. The other two are elites, so will not be upgraded either, unless they make a leader.

We have 2 swords, one 3/3 MP duty and the other in an army, nothing needed for them.

I see Babylonian's have dropped a town down in the tundra, will have to let it go for now. They are backward, so not worried about them. If we have settlers to fill the land, I would take action. Once we do have the settlers, then it will be removed.

I do not know for sure, if the land is solid all the way out on all three points, but it looks like it is one land mass. In any event, I do not see any need to build a caravel right now and pay up keep on it. I switch to a worker as the town is stuck at size 2.

I am not much of a combine arms player, so I stop the trebs near Argos. I would like to keep them on the coast for insurance in case of landings. We have plenty at the front. I sent 2 from the stack near Therm to Myce as attack seem to come there often.

I would like at least one on coast around Mile.

Switch Leptis to Lib for culture pop, rather than a treb.

Switch boat in Myce. I just do not build boats in a pan map, unless I need to invade an island. That can be done much later. I can see more land than I can conquer right now and for some time.

Overseer714 I am not sure what you meant by the chance of losing Sistine and Cope. As far as I see we are not building Sistine. IIRC it was started as a pre for Cope. Cope will be done in 4 turns, the only way we lose that is if they get a leader and rush it someplace.

The only other thing I am debating with myself is the Pentagon. I am considering making troops there or something and banking on a leader for the Pentagon. For now I will do nothing as it does not matter and can be decided in a few more turns. It is just that, if we cannot get a leader in 20 turns, something is wrong.

OTOH another army is sweet. I just think a 4th unit could turn those 2 fairly weak armies into something that can last.

I think we can forget the hop and elite archer out too far. They are going to die.

I move the 4 cats/trebs to Herak after waking them.

IBT:
Well no surprise both were kill. The bad news was they did no damage. I am guessing the archer was used to kill a damage unit and then covered. If so, that could work, but not in an area that is so exposed, with so many units near. It is always a tough call to hit a unit and be exposed. Then decide to cover or not.

The two hops and lb by Myce were attacked, but the knight retreated. I will bring them in next turn. They are on flat ground, too risky for my blood.

610AD:
No word on the site for the settler, but I like to be safe with settlers, so I send it towards Delphi to be used in the tundra.

The choke is going to be hard to manage without at least one of the armies. I will send one back. We have no other 2 move units to kill red troops and cannot afford to let knights get away. Japan has 9 units there now. Cleo has 5 and Hannibal landed a NM.

Kill 1hp knight, 1hp Egyptian, 1hp NM, 2hp NM.
Kill 2 NM, pillage a couple of tiles to slow incoming Nums.

IBT:
Very good, considering. Two knights attack the Crusader/LB/Hop and both retreat. AC attacks and dies. MDI attacks and kills a Hop. Note that these units were not even fortified. Will retreat them to town.

620AD:
Not much 2 NM.

IBT:
MDI attacks our 5/5 MDI, but dies.

630AD:
kill 2 NM in Rusicade.
kill NM and archer (both elite wins).
kill 3 Japan MDI, lost one of our MDI.

IBT:
MDI dies on covering Hop, it was fortified thanks to having a road.
Hannibal wants peace. I see he has 20 cities. CA was saying 10 unknown.

640AD:
We get Copes and drop research to 30%. I squeeze out a couple of Hops prior to muskets in the hopes we have salt. Hops are nice, but muskets are better.

kill 2 NM and take Rusicade now size 1. It had a slave.
MDI goes red, but stages a come back to kill NM.
3rd kills Num on hill flawlessly.

IBT:
nada

650AD:
We have a single salt and it is in the capitol. There is another next to Leptis, so we will have a back up eventually. I start Chem. I upgrade a Hop in Myce and Megara as knights are in those areas. I do not run at big deficit for now.

3rd kills 2 of the 6 Nums. Trying to keep from having too many get past.

kill the two knights, but had to use the army to chase one down.

670:
7 of Cleo's knights show up.
At least the 3 Nums did not pillage the tile next to Leptis on the IBT.
Found Phoc in tundra and make wealth and the lone pop as beaker head.

LB out of Megara kill red lined knight.
4/5 archer kills the other one.
5/5 MDI kill Japan MDI and spots a Sami, yuk.

Bombardment is not bad as I get 4 points of of three Nums.
Two 5/5 MDI kill Nums.
LB kills the third one.
3rd kills one as well.

IBT:
Sami kills elite MDI on a hill.
Babylon joins Cleo and DOW.

680AD:
Leptis and Rusicade are now connected.
Archer2 kills Num at Phar and goes elite. It is a Longbow BTW.
4/5 MDI kills Num, but both units are exposed to 4 other units. Will need to do something or else.

Move hop into Leptis and upgrade so army can go.
LB and MDI kill Nums.
3rd gets last 2 Nums and is red. A warrior is left, but should not be able to kill anyone.

I have to toss a LB at a Num on a hill and then follow up with MDI to kill it.
Sure hope a leader arrives soon.
4/5 archer retreats a yellow knight.
5 knights, Sami and MDI to deal with. 4 trebs get 3 hits. I am very glad I got the 2nd over there.

2 Crusaders kill knights I think they were 3/3.
2 LB attack 2/3 knights. One wins and the other is driven off.
MDI kills the last knight in the borders.

I decide to send the 5/5* MDI out to kill the red knight and it goes yellow in doing that. I had hoped a 1 point loss or none so the MDI nearby would be less likely to win or even attack.

MDI kills one MDI and takes no damage. So at least only the one is left.

3/4 Sami on hill takes 7 points of the 2nd. I shudder to think of attacking him with other units.
2nd kill the AC that was under it. I cover the yellow MDI with one. Then decide to send a hop to cover them both. I have had too many losses lately.

IBT:
Wow I will salt this one down. Warrior attacked 3/5 archer and dies. 1HP knight attacks LB and dies. MDI attacked the MDI stack and the hop is not used, but MDI I sent was and it won. All 3 units made it. Best of all another knight is gone.

690AD:
1st kills 2 Nums and captures Nora.
I hated to do it and maybe I should not, but I used the 4hp 3rd to kill a Num. I did not want them to cut that road.

700AD:
Capture Khorsbad and rename Khors. A lone spear was there, they had a bow earlier. I guess it was sent off in the galley that is now by Troy.
MDI kills Num at Rusicade and covered by Hop.

Rats the misclicks started. I sent a treb onto a hill instead of a plains and now it cannot ping the knight.
2nd kills it.
Crusaders kills the other red one and a spear.

IBT:
LB attacks the hop covering the MDI at Rusicade and dies. Not many promotions.

Back to the action.

vmxa · Apr 18, 2009

I am posting the save for the next one. Who knows, if neither of you grab it I may take another round later.

save:

vmxa · Apr 18, 2009

Rest of the log:

710AD:
3rd kills Num in Sabratha.

720AD:
I see that at least 2 have Banking. No one to trade to as all are either broke or at war with us.
Found Sicyon, note it was with a settler out of a Carthage town.

3rd captures Sabratha and rename it to Sab. We are actually in the black right now +2gpt.

1st kills a Num near Nora.
Ping Num and send in MDI at Rusicade. LB pings MDI, but he wins anyway.
No units are well enough to attack the LB. I am not sure if it will attack or cut the road. I think attack as the hop is 2/3 right now. I decide to not upgrade and entice it to attack. It is not a given it will kill the hop and it is not a big loss, if it does. At least the LB will be hopefully damaged.

I have done nothing to expand towards Japan and Egypt. I just want to hang on there and avoid the jungle for now.

Trying to keep it under control and take down Hannibal. I am not bee lining for the horses as I want to not have any Carthage towns behind us.

We should have the Pentagon soon and maybe a 4th army. That will speed up things a bit. Right now the armies can rarely attack twice as they will be too damaged.

Japan has a pike and archer followed by two Sami and an AC. Cleo has a spear followed by a knight.

Ping pike red and 5/5 archer kills.
I do not ping the lone spear at Myce as it would only leave and I cannot attack it and be exposed. I am guessing it will move in deeper and then can be killed.

IBT:
LB attacks and dies. Hop not promoted. Treb pinged it.

730AD:
Trebs not so good on Sami this time. Crusader goes red, but kills 3/4 Sami.
2nd kills one.
LB kills AC.

Well 2 trebs red line a Num near Rusicade.
MDI goes red killing the red Num.
1st kills LB.

Ajax kills archer and all Nippon units cleared.
Ajax is a 5/5* MDI.
2 trebs red line a spear and LB kills it. cover with 2nd as two knight can reach the spot.
Switch Leptis to settler.

740AD:
1st kill LB.
The Bowman was in the boat and landed by Sicyon.

NOTE that I switch Troy to settler as it will need to get a border expansion to grow past size 6. Maybe later than can be done with rushes or CE. Right now may as well make workers or settlers.

Red lined the two knights, but have to take care as a Sami is coming up. Do not want to expose any units.

MDI kills one and LB the other. LB goes elite and I cover with 2nd. I spot a Sami+AC.

IBT:
Bow dies on MDI.
Several nations start Bach.

750AD:
Mdi retreat AC and 5/5 LB kills it, leader please.
1st kills Num.
3rd kills one in Carthage.
MDI retreat yellow Sami and 2nd kills it

IBT:
japan wants peace. They have no tech or gold. I accept for two junk towns. I sell the barracks in one and abandon both. I figure it cannot be long and they will be back. Last time it took only a couple of turns.

760AD:
Chem next turn.
I wonder if Cleo will buy Japan back in the fight?
I see 9 knights from Cleo. Crusader retreats one and 2nd kills it.
Crusader kills the other and 2nd covers.

1st and 3rd are healing. They are in Hannibal's land and I do not want to risk them getting red.

IBT:
Hum, Babylon wants peace but offers nothing, no deal.
Carthage keeps spending its cash and it has bought Ottoman in the fray.
Sistine is done by someone. Many start Bach.

770AD:
Start metallurgy.
3 knights in our borders and Japan seems to have troops about to enter.
1st not able to go on offense as it has to kill 2 LB to clear Nora.

Well now the 3rd grabs Carthage after 2 Nums are killed. I can see the horse now. Moving help to the city.
The 3rd is actually in great shape, so it can defend. I doubt they have a lot to send right now. I am concerned about the Ottoman. No idea how long before they come and with what numbers and units.

Any new crusaders need to go to the armies. The 1st and then the 3rd and then 2nd. The 1st is the weakest. The 3rd is in the place that could have the most pressure. The 2nd is doing mop up and cover. it has help, the others do not.

LB retreats knight.
MDI kills one.
2nd kills yellow knight and the retreating one.

780AD:
Some issues now. First Japan has moved three stacks into our land. I dial them up and they DOW, that did not take long.

Next Cleo moved 4 knights in along with the Nippon stacks. I dial her up and get 40 gold for peace. What do I want to do with the fact she has knights here? I guess I need to dial her up and she if she wants more fun or will move them out. Yikes I do not have an option to ask her to leave. So dangerous, if they move forward.

I dialed up Cleo thinking I may be able to get banking for Chem to speed the next age for us. She offered read this HORSES, 19gpt, DYES and a few gold. I took it and then as I feared she was going to attack anyway, I gift her 1gpt.

Now I dial up Hannibal and make a deal for Bank and his 40 gold and I give Chem. I know Chem will soon be flashed around, but Banking is a required tech. Now I can move 1st to Carthage to get a fourth unit next turn.

Switch all MDI to knights at least we will have these, if she cuts us off.

MDI kills Sami and I do not cover. If the knights hit, I would rather lose the one MDI.
5/5 LB kills pike.
MDI dies on MDI and second MDI kill a pike.
MDI kills yellow pike. All three units went red.

IBT:
So sweet. Sami dies on Musket. Cleo packed her bags and left. Not sure if it was the 1gpt or that was a waste.
Japan DOW Hannibal, so we can kill them as they pass through. I guess maybe that was their plan all along. No matter, we cannot have them passing through.

790AD:
Pentagon done will add units asap.
I have changed the build in Carthage three times. Right now it is a settler.
All three armies will gain a 4th unit next turn. Only MDI in 1 and 2 though.

800AD:
Found Gort.
Fill 2nd with a red MDI.
Second salt is connected for insurance.
Fill the other two.
Hannibal is sending a LB to Japan. I am inclined to let them go as long as they can be dealt with.

I see Ottoman spear, no make that Egyptian roving around past Utica.

Kill AC, retreat a Sami and kill another Sami.

IBT:
Another sweet inter as the red Sami attacks the LB and dies. The LB goes elite at 2/5. A new Sami attacks it and dies as well and takes no HP? The LB is only in a forest not fortified.

810AD:
Found Mytilene and rename to Mytil. I am packing the tunra there and just using a beaker head. I am not seeing any Nippon units, so I tell Hannibal to leave, he does.

820AD:
Leave or DOW and leaves again, afraid I guess.

830AD:
kill an archer.

840AD:
Found Teg. Now the tundra is all in our borders.
Still will not DOW.

850AD:
Hey they want to expand the palace, too lazy for that.

860AD:
Oh oh I got another great scientist. Not use to them. I had nothing to use it on, SOOO. I dial up Xerk and ask what he may trade me for Gun. He give Music and his last 7 gold. Now I have what I want. SGL to Buce and rush Bach's, too bad suckers.

Start MT.
Found Syracuse.

2nd kills 2 Sami.
5/5 LB kills one.

I stop here to let someone else have a shot.

************

One AC close, not a big danger. I have left the Carthage units for you to decide. Attack, leave and hope for a DOW or what? We need to get after Someone and they are a good choice. We want are own horses.

I have put a few knights on the coast to handle any landing.

We need a pre for MA. You have Buce and Athens both finish a build. Buce may be the only one that can hold the shields long enough. Close for a cath though, may work.

Edit for clarity.
I was trying to say that Athens could start on a cathedral at 160 shields at 21 per turn. That is 8 turns and MT is 10 and will be 9 at that time. You could probably shave off a turn or slow the build. Athens is 21 with no corrupt, while I think Buce is 21 with 1 corrupt, so the same in terms of time.

You could just make a fast 1 or 2 turn unit and then start the pre, all are fine. The latter allows for the research to slow down, if something happens.

I also never reduced the lux spending and that probably could be done. I did not as I was concerned about the loss of war happy, in the case of peace.

vmxa · Apr 19, 2009

I forgot to sell off the captured harbors as well. I held them at first as we did not have a road connecting those towns. We do now, so no reason to keep them.

With the 2 content pop from Bach and the dye, you may be able to lower lux and up research. That would remove the issue of a pre in Athens. I like Athens for MA as armies are the only way to have a solid pre in the capitol most of the time.

If you attack Carthage, do check those captured towns for unhappy pop.

I did not upgrade any cannons as I am not sure how many knights we will have to upgrade and I wanted to hold the cash for that.

vmxa · Apr 22, 2009

Well Rod02 still up in the air, so I guess I can rack up a little more here. No feedback on the handling of Hannibal, so I will just play it as I see it. I would like to at least have the 20 turns pass and then DOW. Maybe he will finally call me out.

TheOverseer714 · Apr 22, 2009

If he won't DOW, finish the treaty and then do it. If we're going to win this by Conquest, we need to get killing. I think we also need to get through the jungle and get some work done on Japan.

ThinkTank · Apr 22, 2009

Need a hand here? I can play if you like.

vmxa · Apr 22, 2009

TheOverseer714 said:
If he won't DOW, finish the treaty and then do it. If we're going to win this by Conquest, we need to get killing. I think we also need to get through the jungle and get some work done on Japan.

True we need to get going, no two move units is a real anchor. I did a bad thing though, I ask them to leave a bunch of times and finally jumped on them busting the deal.

vmxa · Apr 22, 2009

ThinkTank said:
Need a hand here? I can play if you like.

I am not sure I have a say in it, I leave it to Overseer. There is plenty of game left. I will post an update.

Civ2 in Civ3

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