Civ3 Community Scenario Compilation DVD

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Quintillus, Jan 30, 2021.

?

Would you be interested in the compilation?

  1. Yes - DVD

    14 vote(s)
    60.9%
  2. Yes - Larger disc (e.g. Blu-Ray) farther in the future

    4 vote(s)
    17.4%
  3. Yes - Downloadable DVD image

    7 vote(s)
    30.4%
  4. Yes - Downloadable larger image farther in the future

    6 vote(s)
    26.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    The Community Scenario Compilation DVD is a disc containing 4.3 GB (binary) worth of mods and scenarios developed by the CivFanatics community. It is designed to make it easy to install these mods, to encourage trying out more mods, and to aid in the preservation of these mods over the longer term.

    You can request the actual DVD by sending a PM with your address, or download the ISO (4.3 GB, 9 GB uncompressed) from this link.

    See below for a picture of the physical disc, next to the retail Civilization III and a Conquests disc:

    Spoiler Picture :


    Boxed copy of Vanilla Civ3 and the Vanilla and Conquests discs not included :)


    You can see the list of scenarios and mods included on the disc in this copy of the on-disc readme; a less detailed list of mods included is below:

    Spoiler Mods :
    Age of Imperialism, by El Justo
    The Ancient Mediterranean, by thamis (including several scenarios)
    Barbarossa: The War in the East, by Sarevok & Rocoteh
    The Cold War Deluxe, by El Justo
    Escape From Zombie Island 2 Elite, by Vuldacon
    Fallout: The Rebirth of Civilization, by Thorgrimm
    The Great War, by Sarevok & Rocoteh
    Master of Myrror Fantasy Mod, by Drift
    Medieval European Mod II, by embryodead & Yoda Power (including several MEM mod-mods)
    Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods, by WildWeazel
    The Old Empires, by Sarevok & Rocoteh
    Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, by pinktilapia (including several scenarios)
    Rise and Rule, by Isak, Kal-el, Doc Tsiolkovski, harrier, Pfeffersack, et. al.
    Rhye's of Civilization, by Rhye
    The Rood and the Dragon, by Plotinus
    Space Opera, by NavyDawg
    Warhammer Fantasy Mod, by mrtn
    Civilization III: Worldwide, by AnthonyBoscia
    WW2 Global, by Rocoteh


    Discs are currently shipping, free of charge and worldwide (except countries experiencing pandemic-related restrictions), to any member of the CivFanatics community who would like one.

    In order to request a disc, please send a PM to me with your shipping address. Discs are send by first-class letter; as an example shipping time, the test disc from the U.S. to Europe arrived in 11 days, despite winter weather.

    Some people have asked about covering costs. This is intended to be a free service to the community. However, if you would like to do so, mention that in your PM and I can send you information. As an alternative, sending a postcard from your part of the world to the return address included with your disc is encouraged.

    Spoiler Original Pre-Shipping Post :
    Over the past several weeks, I've been putting together a compilation of some of the best and most popular Civ3 scenarios. The motivating factor here is really threefold:
    • Encouraging players to try new scenarios that are on the compilation, but they may not have heard of
    • Making it easy for players to obtain a larger collection of scenarios
    • Helping ensure the continued availability of scenarios, especially those hosted externally to CivFanatics
    Spoiler More details on motivations :
    The latter two are both related to the problem of hosting links going down over time. Depending on the scenario you are seeking to download, you may find its availability in several states:

    • Easily downloadable on a high-speed link. These are typically the newer scenarios
    • The original link is broken, but someone has re-uploaded it. You have to find the post where they have the re-upload link, which may not be at the end of the scenario's thread anymore.
    • The original link is still working, but it was uploaded in 2006 and the download speed is not much faster than dial-up unless you're willing to pay $7/month for faster downloads.
    • There is a working link, but the site you download it from is plastered with ads and fake download buttons that download things other than the scenario
    • There is no working download link at all. You're out of luck unless you post asking if someone still has it, and someone makes the effort to re-upload it and post the link
    The availability problem will gradually become worse over time for older scenarios. Another complicating factor is that some mods require multiple downloads, including patches, to be combined, or perhaps has an installer that worked great on Windows XP but not as well on Windows 10. Thus, depending on the scenario you want to play, the effort required to get it set up can range from quite low, to enough that maybe you decide not to try it after all.


    So the idea of a scenario compilation pack came to mind, allowing a selection of some of the community's finest scenarios to be accessible without these challenges. After a few weeks of intermittent downloading, setting up, and testing scenarios, it looks like this compilation would include approximately 19 modpacks (13 historical, 6 non-historical), covering 20-some scenarios. The goal would be to have the discs printed with artwork, and mailed free to anyone who wanted one. A downloadable disc image would also be made available free of charge.

    If you would be interested, please vote above. Having some idea of projected demand is important to knowing how many discs, envelopes, stamps, etc. to order.

    While there are of course some limits - sending discs to 100,000 people isn't realistic - research indicates that the overall plan is feasible given the expected popularity. As such, I've continued on with scenario curation, having completed a first pass of compilation and testing, with a second pass underway.

    I've also reached out to the scenario creators, and am pleased that even though many are no longer active with Civ 3, several have already replied in the affirmative to having their mods included in the effort. Thus, I'm pleased to announce the tentative mod list. Items in bold are confirmed; items in italics are Decade Award winners and all but confirmed.

    Spoiler Mods :
    Age of Imperialism, by El Justo
    The Ancient Mediterranean, by thamis (including several scenarios)
    Barbarossa: The War in the East, by Sarevok & Rocoteh
    The Cold War Deluxe, by El Justo
    Escape From Zombie Island 2 Elite, by Vuldacon
    Fallout: The Rebirth of Civilization, by Thorgrimm
    The Great War, by Sarevok & Rocoteh
    Master of Myrror Fantasy Mod, by Drift
    Medieval European Mod II, by embryodead & Yoda Power (including several MEM mod-mods)
    Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods, by WildWeazel
    The Old Empires, by Sarevok & Rocoteh
    Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, by pinktilapia (including several scenarios)
    Rise and Rule, by Isak, Kal-el, Doc Tsiolkovski, harrier, Pfeffersack, et. al.
    Rhye's of Civilization, by Rhye
    The Rood and the Dragon, by Plotinus

    Space Opera, by NavyDawg
    Warhammer Fantasy Mod, by mrtn

    Civilization III: Worldwide, by AnthonyBoscia
    WW2 Global, by Rocoteh


    If you created one of these mods and do not want it to be included, please reply to the PM I sent in late January.

    How were the scenarios selected? Please see this spoiler:

    Spoiler How were scenarios selected? :
    There is no perfect way to select scenarios. The factors I have been weighing are popularity in the downloads database, thread views, the 2011 Decade Award threads, and in some cases the size of the mod (as DVDs only fit so much data). As more mods are confirmed to be in the collection, you should expect to see more mods meeting these criteria announced.

    This likely does somewhat bias the selection to older modpacks. As these are also the more likely ones to have availability issues, that seemed like an acceptable tradeoff.


    Helpers Needed

    A few helpers are needed to help make this a success.

    Art Help Needed

    There's a reason I'm not known for my art creations here. I'd like to recruit someone to create a professional-looking graphics for the DVD. As a sample, I've created the following prototype:

    Spoiler :

    This artwork is Seaport by Moonlight by Claude-Joseph Vernet. I'm not tied to it by any means; the main goal is to have artwork that would be appropriate across a wide range of scenarios. I'd also appreciate help making the text look more professional, and less like the plain non-serifed font it currently is.

    Depending on demand, I am also considering having a printed jacket (the type a disc slides into). This would have artwork on the front and back, and likely a mod listing on the back.


    Early Disc Sample (Shipping) Volunteers Needed

    Spoiler :
    One of the key questions to confirm is what the best option is for postage, which is projected to be the most expensive part of the project, and thus a key determining factor of how many discs can be sent out. Given the ability to reproduce the discs fairly easily, I am favoring going with inexpensive letter-class shipping, combined with higher-quality envelopes and a disc sleeve to protect the disc. However, it would be good to confirm the safe arrival of a couple sample discs before committing to the plan over a more expensive, but more protected option such as bubble packing.

    Thus I am seeking two volunteers to receive (non-printed) sample discs ahead of time. One should be based in the United States, and the other outside the United States.

    If the inexpensive shipping option works, I expect to be able to ship the discs essentially worldwide (although 22 countries currently have shipping restrictions due to the pandemic; the full list is here). If it does not work, international shipping may be limited to creators of the scenarios, and countries where a distributing partner can be found.


    Beta Tester

    Spoiler :
    It could also be useful to have a beta tester, to verify that the scenarios work well on someone else's computer, and provide feedback on the documentation. This could be one of the same people who receives an early disc, but would not necessarily have to be. It would be a slight advantage for this person to be able to test with multiple versions of Civ3. I've been testing with the vanilla disc + Conquests disc version, but there are several variants out there - Steam, GOG, Gamersgate, Complete on disc, etc. I plan to do a once-over with the Steam version but it never hurts to have a second set of eyes.


    Timeline

    These dates are all tentative. The tl;dr is I hope to have the first discs shipped by the Ides of March, and hope to ship up to 20 per week.

    Spoiler :
    First week of February - hearing back from additional creators, continued testing of scenarios, finishing on-disc documentation
    First/second week of February - Order envelopes for shipping based on projected demand
    Second week of February - Send out sample discs to early shipping volunteers with "beta" version of compilation. Order printed discs based on projected demand. Buy stamps.
    2nd half of February - Finalize the compilation. Printed discs arrive and can start being burned once the compilation is ready.
    4th week of February - Hopefully have confirmation of successful shipping.
    1st half of March - Start shipping out the discs. First to the creators of the scenarios who have requested a disc, followed by those who have requested a disc in this thread.

    My current plan is to order the discs printed, but not burnt, and to burn the data at home. This has the advantage of allowing updates to be made when scenarios have updates, as a couple creators have mentioned they are considering making this year. If this winds up being the plan, I plan to burn roughly 20 per week and send them out once a week; please be patient if a lot of people sign up!

    Depending on demand, I may order the discs printed with data. This is a cost/time/flexibility tradeoff. If this winds up being the route, it will likely take more time for the first discs to go out (as I won't be able to order them until the disc is finalized), but they will go out more quickly once they arrive.


    Expansion Plans

    Depending on demand and time availability, I may consider offering larger compilations, such as dual-layer DVDs or Blu-Rays. These will take additional time to compile, and as such for now I've drawn a line to make at least the DVD is sent out. This does mean some worthy scenarios are not going to be included, which is why these larger storage options are appealing.

    If you are interested in these, vote for that option, but I'd encourage voting for one of the "smaller" options, too. The larger options might not wind up seeing the light of day.


    Questions

    Please ask question! I have included answers to some early questions in this FAQ:

    Spoiler FAQ :
    Q: How would you handle an update of a scenario that is used on the DVD?
    A: This somewhat depends on demand. If demand is high - several hundred discs - I plan to have them printed with data, to save burning time. If demand is moderate or low, I plan to have the discs printed without data, and burn them myself. That would allow updates made after the discs are printed to be included.

    Q: How soon will you making the final cut?
    A: Depending on the timeline above, either in the second half of February or the first half of March.

    Q: I created one of these scenarios and am making an update to it. Can the update be included?
    A: Maybe. It would have to be a stable (well-tested) update, and be available with a high degree of confidence before March 15th. I don't want to delay the compilation by months to include one update, but if the timeline moves quickly and delaying it from e.g. March 1st to March 10th means it can include an update, I have no problem with that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
  2. Chicken Pizza

    Chicken Pizza Warlord

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    Let me express how I feel, without being judged, looked down on or accused of being bitter, because I'm really not.

    I've been programming since I was 10 years old, I managed to see what's missing in Civ 3 (that's one of my other talents), which was a command line script for calculating battle odds.

    I wrote the script, and the explanation/instructions/manual may I add, in a way more professional way that no Tcl programmer, programmer in general, or The Civ Forum have any reason to doubt.

    It's just plain uninterest, and I totally understand that. You can come up with any idea, or do any work, but if you don't manage to sell it it's not worth anything.

    I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm sure others feel the same. So I'm not buying what you're selling.
     
  3. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    I'd like to see more historical scenarios. Albeit, filtered for quality and polishing. No incomplete works.
     
  4. Chicken Pizza

    Chicken Pizza Warlord

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    No work is incomplete if you don't try to do too much.
     
  5. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    Reviewing the list of scenarios, 13 of the modpacks have historical settings (of which 10 cover specific periods), and 6 are non-historical. The historical modpacks also are the ones that tend to have multiple scenarios, so an estimated 75% of the scenarios will be historical. I've updated the opening post to include that overview.
     
  6. WildWeazel

    WildWeazel hard-coded Supporter

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    I was just thinking, you've also brought up the decade/20-year awards. Have you thought about tying the two together? Maybe the "awards" could be the selection process.
     
  7. Nathiri

    Nathiri Commander

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    Cool idea! There are still people who dont like to download stuff from the internet, or they might have internet problems at times, so this provides a good option I think that someone can carry around with them. Also, instead of just providing a series of download links, which someone might consider it is "work" to install, this compiles everything into something more official and ready to play. I wouldnt think demand would be high though as its target audience would be on the smaller side. But I think its worthy enough to be undertaken.

    Additionally, you could provide a list of suggested mods that didnt make it onto disc as a sort of shortlist for people to go to directly rather than navigating to civfanatics, then to downloads, then looking through pages etc.

    I will say that I would be one of the first ones to buy a dvd just to have it :). I think it would be cool to have it in my future collections.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
  8. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    That's an interesting idea. It had occurred to me that the compilation could be sort of a "20-year compilation", and I looked to the last decade awards as part of the selection criteria for essentially that reason, but I hadn't considered having the selection process be the awards. It's certainly a valid consideration for how to choose the scenarios, and perhaps the best of a number of imperfect options for determining the "best". Indeed, the reason I included the first decade awards as a criterion was to have a "best" component and not just purely a "most popular" component.

    One logistical consideration that comes to mind is that many of the newer mods are also the larger mods. Some are multiple gigabytes, e.g. Civ III: Worldwide, CCM2, and SOE. Even with modern compression technology, only 3 or 4 of these can be put on one DVD. It's a case where I think quantity (and variety) wins out when trying to decide what fits on the disc.

    That said, I think it would be an excellent idea to tie the "expanded"/Blu-Ray option to the decade awards. That would drastically increase the amount of space, allowing any award winners to be included while still allowing plenty of space for existing mods to provide sufficient variety to ensure there's a scenario for everybody.

    Indeed, I've found it is a certain amount of work to install a bunch of mods; though some are easier than others, it's not as easy as hitting "Subscribe" in the Steam workshop and waiting 30 seconds. It appears you are right that demand isn't through the roof, but as a good chunk of the compilation is already compiled, it makes sense to go ahead with it.

    Rather than recommend particular mods, which I'm not really qualified for and which varies by taste so much anyway, I'll probably point to the selection criteria so it's relatively easy for people to look and see, "what are the next few that would have been chosen in the disc could fit ten more scenarios?"
     
  9. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    I realized that by making the poll anonymous, I inadvertently made it more difficult to collect feedback on who is interested. If you are interested, you can still vote, but by either replying to the thread or liking the first post, you can also register your interest so I know to reach out to you when the disc is ready. Of course you're welcome to simply lurk as well, but then you'll have to be more proactive about registering interest when it's ready as I'll have know way of knowing you are interested. That also increases the chances that there won't be enough doses discs for everyone who requests them when they are first available.

    --------------------------

    It's been a few days, and I think it's time to reveal the full planned list of mods.

    These are somewhat subject to change, and I have a little bit of extra space so I may be able to squeeze in one or two more.

    Items in bold are confirmed to be in the compilation. Items in italics are winners or runners-up from the first Decade Awards (or successors thereof) and are thus essentially confirmed.

    Spoiler Mods :
    Age of Imperialism, by El Justo
    The Ancient Mediterranean, by thamis (including several scenarios)
    Barbarossa: The War in the East, by Sarevok & Rocoteh
    The Cold War Deluxe, by El Justo
    Escape From Zombie Island 2 Elite, by Vuldacon
    Fallout: The Rebirth of Civilization, by Thorgrimm
    The Great War, by Sarevok & Rocoteh
    Master of Myrror Fantasy Mod, by Drift
    Medieval European Mod II, by embryodead & Yoda Power (including several MEM mod-mods)
    Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods, by WildWeazel
    The Old Empires, by Sarevok & Rocoteh
    Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, by pinktilapia (including several scenarios)
    Rise and Rule, by Isak, Kal-el, Doc Tsiolkovski, harrier, Pfeffersack, et. al.
    Rhye's of Civilization, by Rhye
    The Rood and the Dragon, by Plotinus

    Space Opera, by NavyDawg
    Warhammer Fantasy Mod, by mrtn

    Civilization III: Worldwide, by AnthonyBoscia
    WW2 Global, by Rocoteh


    If you are the author of one of these mods and would not like it to be included, please reply to the DM I sent last week.

    The non-bold, non-italic entries should all be considered "likely". They are based on the "popularity" criteria, being either in the top 10 by downloads among mods or scenarios, or the top 10 in thread popularity among mods or scenarios (there is quite a bit of overlap among downloads and thread popularity, and also considerable overlap among Decade Awards and popularity). I'm considering doing a second pass on the popularity metric to consider taking into account either number of unique visitors to reply to a thread (versus a couple collaborators being responsible for most of the replies), as well as potentially normalizing across mods vs scenarios, and perhaps examining some year-weighted or year-based metrics. But I'd say it's likely that all those in the list will be included, and the additional analysis would be for deciding which "bonus" mods get to fill any extra space.

    I should also note that a couple mods, notably Age of Imperialism and WW2 Global, will not be the absolute latest version. For Age of Imperialism, I plan to include version 4.1, which remains the one in the main post in the thread. For WW2 Global, there's a newer WW2 Global Gold which is primarily a graphical update, but alas, it roughly triples the size of the scenario, which would push either Worldwide or several other scenarios off the disk. I'd like to include the Gold edition in a larger disc format, should its next update be ready then and its download once more be available.
     
  10. hth

    hth Warlord

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    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
  11. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    That's a good idea to seed a torrent. I pretty much only use them for the occasional Linux ISO, so it hadn't occurred to me yet.

    I'd seen that thread awhile back but haven't mined it for this collection yet. It will definitely be on the list as I archive more content, and potentially assemble a larger collection.

    I found a good deal on heavy-weight envelopes, and have placed an order for them, which should arrive in 1-2 weeks. That will allow the test shipments to be sent out, which will test the theory that heavyweight envelope + CD sleeve + regular postage is adequate for optical discs. Given that we're looking at perhaps a couple dozen discs given current interest levels (and that's assuming a few more people discover the thread over time), that isn't super important, but especially for international shipping it is an important factor should interest grow once it's a finished, shippable compilation.

    I already have CD sleeves and enough stamps to send a few out (assuming weight/size requirements are met, which it appears they will be), so that means that beyond continued testing of the scenarios, the only remaining component to acquire will be the discs. I will most likely do an initial run of 25 discs, because the cost per disc of any smaller order size is much higher (over 3x the cost per disc), based on current registered interest. I plan to go with the high quality (Taiyo Yuden) discs, since at the quantities we're talking it's a difference of a couple bucks and I know from experience these discs are built like tanks. And if it saves even a couple coasters when burning, it will have paid for itself monetarily too, not to mention in time.

    One remaining question is artwork. I know there are far more experienced creators in this area. However, in lieu of any design suggestions, I may well go with the prototype, likely with slightly different font but with the same design. Perhaps I'll try a few different options by Vernet and see which one works best; his seaside paintings seem appropriate for a Civilization themed collection. And there's enough of them in high resolution that if I do have to order more discs in a year or two, each printing could have a different painting as the cover art.
     
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  12. hth

    hth Warlord

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    I can make it if you will find it appropriate.
    Scanned that up to "Early Modern" section and should say they now in much healthy state than five or so years ago, then I last checked. Now majority can be downloaded from civfanatics nicely. Only few are really lost.
     
  13. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    Time for an end-of-week update.

    First thing to call out is if you are interested in receiving a disk, please either like the first post, or reply to the thread. I've added the people who have already done so to my registry of interest, but I may well order discs this weekend, as tonight I did another pass on the disc design, so it is ready to be sent in. While I plan to order somewhat more than what demand appears to be so people who discover this in a few months can still request a copy, if most people are lurking and only express interest once the discs are available, there may be a shortage.

    Logistically speaking, envelopes have arrived. I learned a lot about paper researching options, and am hoping to hear back soon from my application to be the new assistant to the regional manager at a local paper company. This means that a shipping test disc can now be sent out; reach out if you are interested in being the guinea pig; a PM with your address, and a reply to the thread so people know someone has volunteered, would be great. It would be beneficial to have a test shipper (and ideally, one in the U.S. and one outside the U.S.) as if it is successful, that means the finished discs can be sent out as soon as the printed discs arrive, versus having to wait 3-14 days to confirm that the first one arrives successfully. I don't want to send out half the discs only to find out they need heavier-duty shipping, and that's the primary job of the test shipment. If heavier duty shipping is needed, better to learn that early.

    Compilation continues, with another pass on each of the scenarios roughly halfway completed. Primarily, this involves ensuring there is on-disc documentation (including the first page of a scenario's CFC thread, but also additional resources such as a PDF if the scenario has them), so it's self-contained and a more complete package. Along the way, this has also involved restoring images from threads that are no longer displaying where an original can be located. So, for some scenarios this means the on-disc documentation will have advantages over the web version.

    I've also been adding alternative maps for mods as I become aware of them, so long as it doesn't require a significant amount of extra space. For example, I've added the Europe (BIGGER) map for the Medieval European Mod II, and the Small map for The Cold War. This provides a more complete set of scenario options while having a minimal impact on the size of the compilation.

    Indeed, the size of the compilation is such that it is very unlikely any more scenarios will be added. I initially thought I'd have several hundred extra megabytes and could include a bonus scenario, but after updating a few scenarios and including some optional artistic components of others to give a more complete experience, that space has been used. Only 1-2% of the space is free, and I haven't finished adding all the documentation. It will likely all fit when I turn on the compression level up to 11, but the default compression level might not be sufficient.

    I expect the current pass to take roughly another week to complete, although what that really means is another 4-6 hours, which will likely be done over a week. After that I'll have two short passes - one to validate everything is still working okay (scenarios start, links in the documentation aren't broken), and one more where I burn a test copy and validate the process with a disc, primarily intended as making sure the burning process is working despite the disc being 99% full, and being able to give a realistic time estimate for how long it might take to copy the scenarios from the disc.

    Looking at the initial timeline, things are progressing at more or less the projected rate, with a shipping volunteer being the main question mark at this point in time.

    That may be helpful, although I'm curious to read up on it and try it myself first; it could be another area like paper where I learn something I wouldn't otherwise have learned.
     
  14. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

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    I saw this thread when it went up, and I think this is a really cool idea :thumbsup:

    Looking at the mods you listed, and squirrel that I am, I (am pretty sure I) already have most of them, but having a DVD-backup can only be an advantage.

    FTR, I play C3C using a download-version from GamersGate (pre-Steam MP-update), but I also bought a copy via GOG when it became available there (might even still have that test-installation in place, would have to check that).

    So if you still need a non-US guinea pig for shipping, I am in Germany.
    This is a very generous offer, but speaking for myself, I would have no objection to covering your materials, printing, and shipping costs. Being outside the US, these might be higher than you expect, especially if you find that you need to use heavy-duty packaging to ensure safe delivery.

    (NB Not sure whether public discussion of this aspect would technically be allowed under CFC's forum-rules; feel free to PM me if necessary)
     
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  15. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    Backing everything tjs says, especially how cool this idea is and that taking my share in the overall costs would feel absolutely fine to me - count me in! and thank you!!
    t_x
     
  16. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Great idea! :thumbsup: :hug:
    And surely I'll cover the costs.

    Expanding on tjs282's idea: in my experience we have a big share of Civ-fans from all over the world here at Civfanatics. There is certainly a big German/Austrian community and a big "former Soviet Union" community. And I've also met quite a few people from most of the other European countries and a few from South America.
    Rather than you having to ship discs to all these countries all over the world (with probably extraordinarily high postage), you could perhaps set up a downloadable image or sent one copy to one volunteer per country, and then this volunteer could then burn & distribute more copies for people from his country.

    Another point: I remember that in 2007 when I discovered this forum, one of my first actions was to download "The Great War" and "Age of Imperialism" and play them. However, having only the German edition of C3C at that time, there was a big problem: most of the scenarios that are/were downloadable here from Civfanatics, only work on an English edition of C3C. The reason is that when Firaxis translated Civ3 into other languages, they had the "great idea" to also translate the paths, where sound&graphics for units and other stuff can be found. For example, the art work for the Warrior can be found here:
    English version: Art\Units\Warrior\
    and there are 32 files named like "Warrior.ini", "WarriorAttackAFoot1.wav" etc
    German version: Art\Units\Krieger\
    and there are 32 files named "Krieger.ini", "KriegerAttackFoot1.wav" etc

    And similar for the French, Russian, Spanish, Italian, etc. localization of Civ3... :crazyeye:

    So when I first fired up e.g. The Great War, it immediately exited with tons of errors that certain units cannot be found...
    After I found out the reason for this, I then spend a couple of evenings creating "copies" of all required units. E.g. I would copy the directory "Krieger" to another one named "Warrior" and then renamed all files in there to match the English name... Until TGW finally started without errors...
    A few years later, Kulko (who is from Austria) told me a much simpler way to fix this problem: one only has to prepare a new "pediaicons.txt" file for the Scenario in question, where the paths are adjusted to the localization, and then replace the pediaicons.txt that comes with the Scenario with the modified one.
    I don't remember all the details of how this works, but I can imagine this problem still exists today for everyone playing a non-English version of Civ. And I think I can try and dig up the details of how to fix it easily. (Probably it's also described somewhere in the Creation & Customization forum.)

    Question for all, who are playing the Stream or GoG version: how does it look like here? Are there still different localized versions and if so, do they still have "translated" names for all the animation files, or did Firaxis or Steam fix this mess?
     
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  17. Nathiri

    Nathiri Commander

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    Havent come across this problem that often. I have had people ask for local versions of civ3 as steam's is english. Usually they are pointed to a german pack found online which then then apply to the steam civ3 files. I guess mods has not crossed their minds.
     
  18. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    I do still need a non-U.S. guinea pig! (As well as a U.S. one, for that matter) Send me a PM with a shipping address, and it will likely be shipped out on Tuesday (the US Postal Service is closed on Monday for George Washington and Abraham Lincolns' birthdays).

    It appears I've picked up quite a few Civ copies over the years; I have GamersGate, GOG, and Steam, as well as disc. When it goes on sale for $1.24, it's hard to resist picking up a copy "just in case", so even if Steam implodes and my disc fails, I'd still be able to play.

    It did occur to me that it may make sense to have a few localized centers of distribution. I think a lot of it will come down to "is heavy-duty packaging needed?" If the answer is yes, the chance that it makes sense to have a few localized centers is much higher. Otherwise, I did a little bit of research on postage, and found that the rates for the optimistic scenario are not much if any higher shipping from the U.S. to the world than many other parts of the world to the world. Maybe that's why the U.S. Postal Service is always short of money?

    Spoiler Shipping Research :
    It looks like I can ship a first class letter from the U.S. to anywhere for $1.20, weighing up to 3.5 oz (basically 100 grams), and up to 1/4" thick (0.635 cm). This would easily accommodate a disc (which weights roughly 17 grams), a protective sleeve, and some tape to keep it from sliding from side to side. It looks like Deutsche Post charges 1.10 Euro ($1.33) to send internationally, but that is with a weight limit of 20 grams, which is questionable, and it's 1.70 Euro above that. It's 0.80/0.95 Euro within Germany, for under/over 20 grams. That equates to $0.97/$1.15 - slightly cheaper but not a compelling difference. The Royal Mail is a little cheaper within the UK - 0.66 pounds/$0.91, with a 100 gram limit - but it only goes up if you're shipping elsewhere, even to Ireland. I found an interesting article at https://ec.europa.eu/internal_marke..._per_policy_area/postal_services/index_en.htm that graphically shows postage prices within the E.U., with the caveat that it's with the 20 gram limit.

    That could rapidly change if heavier-duty packaging is needed, though, in which case it likely would make sense to do what you mention. I'm hoping that perhaps intra-EU prices are fairly consistent - e.g. that if you want to ship from Germany to Spain, it doesn't cost much more than if you want to ship from Hamburg to Dresden? But I'm not super optimistic about that seeing that letter rates are higher across countries, but still within the EU.


    That's an interesting point about the various international variants of Civ. Alas, despite having a lot of digital versions, I don't have any non-English versions. What you suggest about having a different PediaIcons.txt file to make mods work with different variants of Civ3 sounds like a promising idea, and one that would require far less disk space than the original solution of copying folders. That means it could likely be included on the disk. If you are interested in testing out the mods and helping with this, let me know!
     
  19. WildWeazel

    WildWeazel hard-coded Supporter

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    That's just... wow, what a short sighted and wasteful idea to build in the scenario search path and then change filenames. I had no idea that's why mods weren't cross-compatible.

    @Quintillus I don't either and I don't suppose it's possible to buy the Steam version outside your account region, but now I'm imagining a collection of dummy Steam accounts each from a different region. Can you get in trouble for opening or logging into several accounts from the same IP? $1.24 a pop isn't bad for deployment testing, but the setup may be a headache. Anyway I think it'd take more than PediaIcons since some paths are found in the BIQ or hard-coded, right? (Not knowing how far the translation extends, what about things like leaderhead animations and city graphics?) I imagine symlinks would work but that's a lot of files to touch.
     
  20. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Ok, I found Kulko's old instructions (from 2008...) and I think I know again how it works. Apparently the PediaIcons.txt contains the paths to all important things: unit animations, leader heads, buildings&wonders. (But Civilopedia links may be a different file, I'm not sure.) In any case, all Scenarios I played back in the day could be made to work by just editing the PediaIcons.txt. I think no BIQ file modifications are necessary. (But of course I did not play every available Scenario... Only a handful.)

    So I would volunteer to provide German PediaIcon versions for the above scenarios and test them a bit. (Only need to reactivate one of my PCs that has a German installation... In 2010 or so, I bought an English version on eBay and have been using that for new installations ever since.
     

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