Civ4 BTS v3.19 Patch
- Thread starter Speaker
- Start date
I noticed something strange the other day. When switching in and out of OR, I noticed that the build time of my buildings in cities with the state religion didn't get shorter or longer. OR is supposed to give you a +25% bonus to buildings with SR present, right? Or am I not reading the 'pedia correctly?
I thought it was possibly a bug in BetterAI, but I played a vanilla BTS game with just BAT/BUG/BULL (very nice, btw.
), and I had the same result. Looking at the city screen shows the hammer bonus, but the build time of a building doesn't change. Has anyone else noticed this?
I thought it was possibly a bug in BetterAI, but I played a vanilla BTS game with just BAT/BUG/BULL (very nice, btw.
), and I had the same result. Looking at the city screen shows the hammer bonus, but the build time of a building doesn't change. Has anyone else noticed this?
JujuLautre
Deity
Well, as long as you get your hammers it's not a big problem. It could indeed not change: let's say you are building requiring 60 hammers at 15 hammers/turn. You need 4 turns. With OR, you will get 18 hammers/turn and also need 4 turns. You will get more overflow though.
EmperorFool
Deity
And once you add a Forge and Factory into the mix, that +25% starts making less and less of a difference.
Geez, why am I still running OR in 1878--especially when I'm having happiness problems? Oh right, gotta spread those religions while I can, and many were obtained after SM.
Geez, why am I still running OR in 1878--especially when I'm having happiness problems? Oh right, gotta spread those religions while I can, and many were obtained after SM.
Why are you explaining math to a girl? That's like trying to teach a cat to juggle.
Welcome back, Lemon. Missed ya.
JujuLautre
Deity
Why are you explaining math to a girl? That's like trying to teach a cat to juggle.
Because I'm a nice person who explains tons of things to lots of people
Thank you for the responses, boys.
And I missed you guys, too.
I did have a Forge in the city where I first noticed the problem. So the Forge doesn't increase the effect of the OR production increase? I would have thought the multiplier of the Forge would be additive. Neat.
Dean's List in university, Smartie-Pants. Both times. Honors marks in Math, Chemistry, and Physics the whole way, but to give you your point, I still can't balance a chequebook.Why are you explaining math to a girl? That's like trying to teach a cat to juggle.
And I missed you guys, too.
And you do it with style and panache, luv. Don't let the handsome, smartie-pants policeman get you down. He just gets all verklempt when nice, helpful, people talk to me. Having to read all of those nice, helpful posts cuts into the amount of time that he's able to mock me.Because I'm a nice person who explains tons of things to lots of people
JujuLautre
Deity
This is indeed additive. He's just saying that when you just have OR, your building time diminishes by 20% with possible roundings. But if you have already a forge, your building time diminishes by 16,6% because it's now 25% of 150% total; and if you are building a wonder with the correct resource in a city with a forge, a factory and power as an industrious leader, OR makes you go from 250% to 275%, for a whooping 9% gain on time
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Still better than nothing in a tight race though.This is indeed additive. He's just saying that when you just have OR, your building time diminishes by 20% with possible roundings. But if you have already a forge, your building time diminishes by 16,6% because it's now 25% of 150% total; and if you are building a wonder with the correct resource in a city with a forge, a factory and power as an industrious leader, OR makes you go from 250% to 275%, for a whooping 9% gain on time
Thank you. I get it now. I was thinking OR% + Forge% + Factory% + etc... Not as 25% of the total.This is indeed additive. He's just saying that when you just have OR, your building time diminishes by 20% with possible roundings. But if you have already a forge, your building time diminishes by 16,6% because it's now 25% of 150% total; and if you are building a wonder with the correct resource in a city with a forge, a factory and power as an industrious leader, OR makes you go from 250% to 275%, for a whooping 9% gain on time
It makes perfect sense now, even to me.
EmperorFool
Deity
That is what it does. All modifiers in Civ are additive: you add up the modifiers and apply the total to the base value rather than applying each modifier in turn.
I'll put it into math terms since you're so smart.
Modifiers work like thisbase * (modifier1 + modifier2 + modifier3 + ...)
not this
base * modifier1 * modifier2 * modifier3 * ...
beestar
subdeity
I think it's a notation error where Lemon Merchant is using "Forge% + OR%" to indicate compounding, but it should be indicated by an asterisk rather than by a plus sign.
But since we're being pedantic, EF, I noticed that the variable "modifier1" is used in two different ways in your example - surely it isn't 0.25 in each case! I think it's clearer if modifiers are defined as decimals, e.g. if "a forge gives 25% more production" then modifier = 0.25. Then modifiers work like this:
final hammers = base hammers * (1 + modifier1 + modifier2 + modifier3)
not this:
final hammers = base hammers * (1+modifier1) * (1+modifier2) * (1+modifier3).
The other (more awkward) way of thinking about it is in spoilers
Oh, I thought of another possible way of thinking about it:
Okay, now I'm just being annoying, but you asked for it
But since we're being pedantic, EF, I noticed that the variable "modifier1" is used in two different ways in your example - surely it isn't 0.25 in each case! I think it's clearer if modifiers are defined as decimals, e.g. if "a forge gives 25% more production" then modifier = 0.25. Then modifiers work like this:
final hammers = base hammers * (1 + modifier1 + modifier2 + modifier3)
not this:
final hammers = base hammers * (1+modifier1) * (1+modifier2) * (1+modifier3).
The other (more awkward) way of thinking about it is in spoilers
Spoiler :
Oh, I thought of another possible way of thinking about it:
Spoiler :
Okay, now I'm just being annoying, but you asked for it
EmperorFool
Deity
Hehe, and here I was trying not to be too pedantic. Yes, your formulas are correct mathematically. I was only pointing out the additive versus multiplicative difference.
Of course, we could always drop down to code to see how the game handles rounding--no floating point values are used.
Code:
actual hammers = base hammers * (100 + modifier1 + modifier 2 + ...) / 100where the modifiers for Forge, Factory and OR are 25.
I never said I was smart. I just did well in school.I'll put it into math terms since you're so smart.
And thank you for the even better explanation.
Hey! I dont have BTS 3.19. I will download it soon though.
In my last game I had a trouble when I wanted to creat a colony on a new continent out of my 3 cities there by pressing the colony buttun but nothing happened. Anybody knows whatup?
In my last game I had a trouble when I wanted to creat a colony on a new continent out of my 3 cities there by pressing the colony buttun but nothing happened. Anybody knows whatup?
GravityWave
Deposed Emperor
Already 18 civs?
Yeah! I didnt know I have to destroy a rival so I can make a colony but I guess thats it...thx
EmperorFool
Deity
You could also grab a DLL that allows for more total players. I've read of both 34 and 50 player versions. I believe the Unofficial 3.19 Patch has one of these options.
Is there a plan to incorporate that into BAT? I ended up choosing the BAT mod over having more than 18 civs, but a combo would be excellent.
EmperorFool
Deity
I do plan to add code to make it easier to build your own 34/50-civ DLL using BULL, and you could then copy it to BAT.
