Civ4 Lovers/Civ5 Haters Level of Optimism for Civ6

[6K Man]

You might be waiting a while. I'm waiting for a serious sale.



You poor guys. I'm not even allowed to walk into the salon for less than C$100.

Do you get your hair cut every 3-4 weeks? Most women I have known get their hair cut about half as often as I do.

Or are you saying that if you really wanted Civ6, all you'd have to do is grow your hair out?

 

[Lexicus]

The cheapest haircut I ever got was $3.70 (37 rand at the time) in Cape Town.

You poor guys. I'm not even allowed to walk into the salon for less than C$100.

Preach. It's ridiculous how much women pay for clothes and grooming.

 

[shakabrade]

To put thing in perspective:
Average net salary in my country is a bit under 900$ a month. Although my salary is well above average games are far from afordable at full price. It better be very, very good.
Haircut is 6-7$ though.

Most of the people are from lower or low income countries and game price doesn't scale with GDP per capita.

 

[Drakarska]

Hmnn, so if we're scaling a haircut to game costs ratio, using LM's mathematical computations would allow me to have 4 haircuts... Interesting perspective

 

[elmurcis]

Soo... haircut is where boys get money for games 60 EUR for year enough for me.. If compare to Civ4 price (40 EUR some time ago for many years) I can say that gaming is much much cheaper than any other "wonderful" thing in life. Even riding with bicycle (that I love) costs something (just "maintence" outside my own food/staff is ~10 EUR/1000 km, and I ride 6-9k km/year)

 

[shakabrade]

Soo... haircut is where boys get money for games 60 EUR for year enough for me.. If compare to Civ4 price (40 EUR some time ago for many years) I can say that gaming is much much cheaper than any other "wonderful" thing in life. Even riding with bicycle (that I love) costs something (just "maintence" outside my own food/staff is ~10 EUR/1000 km, and I ride 6-9k km/year)

If the game is good, it is well worth the money. However, I will normally first try the game before buying, like I would anything else. Pre-order is out of the question.

 

[rah]

Yeah, I always feel sorry for the women in the shop while I'm there. They're getting the same service for 3x what I'm paying. Which is another reason for a good tip.

Yes, a professional is always the best. He doesn't even laugh when he's trimming the eyebrows.

 

[Aristos]

My haircuts are decreasing in cost at a steady rate since 2001. That year, I bought one of those hair trimmers made in Japan (yes, some things you can still get at that level of quality), that are meant for veterinarians, and specifically for horses, and declared my wife the official hair stylist of the house for boys. Cut is #1 or max #2 for me, #2 for the boy, and I have probably saved thousands by now, plus a lot of annoyances... trimmer costed 120 US$ and is still running like a kitten (like a Toyota). Do the math.

Yes, that's where the gaming budget comes from.

 

[georgjorge]

A whole page of discussion on haircuts in a thread on the new Civ? Surely everybody will agree that computer gamers are among the most fashion-conscious nowadays...

 

[Aristos]

A whole page of discussion on haircuts in a thread on the new Civ? Surely everybody will agree that computer gamers are among the most fashion-conscious nowadays...

Dig deeper, gold miner.

The topic of the latest posts are a testament in itself of how we regard the upcoming iteration...

 

[MantaRevan]

Not to break from this lovely discussion, but in a recent interview with Ed Beach he talked a little about the new diplomacy system.

Not totally sure if they've learned their lesson from Civ 5, since the interview was largely opaque marketing platitudes, but I did pick up on a major piece of info or two.

Thankfully, the despised Warmonger Penalty from Civ 5 is being restrained in a couple of interesting ways. Supposedly, there's no diplomatic penalty for warfare in the ancient era, and the penalty picks up gradually after that (Beach claims that it gets significant in the Renaissance).

It looks like the game is hewing a lot closer, mechanically speaking, to Civ 5, where ancient warfare really isn't feasible at all. I'd like to see a return to viable early-game war, but who knows if that's in the cards yet.

Hopefully this proves to be a nice compromise betwean BtS's excessively lax attitude towards conquest where other nations don't really care unless you're attacking their friends and Civ 5's comically bad warmonger system.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

I've always thought that there should be some penalty for being a warmonger, such as a negative diplo modifier or something. Civ 5's method is too harsh. I'll wait to see if Civ 6 has any better system. If Beach is saying that there is a minimal penalty in the early game, that might give players an incentive to do early rushes again. I don't think they were feasible in Civ 5. At least I was never able to get one to work. City bombardment and enemy units would take out my units long before I could take the city. Granted, I'm not the most brilliant Civ 5 player around.

Something that I would like to see is an AI in Civ 6 that can take your city if your unit goes wandering about and leaves it unguarded. You know how in BTS, you can start with a warrior instead of a scout? Well, if you send your warrior off to explore, leaving a city unguarded, what is to stop an AI warrior from taking your city? Nothing really, except that the game doesn't do it. An AI warrior can waltz right past your empty city and ignore it. I've been trying to make the AI declare when it finds an empty city a reality in Better BAT AI, but so far I haven't had much success with it. If Civ 6 has such a mechanic, though, it might be a good thing. It would certainly curb some forms of exploration, and it would be more realistic.

 

[Tatran]

To capture a city in civ 6 you will have to bring down the fortification health + garrison health to zero.

 

[Staler87]

To capture a city in civ 6 you will have to bring down the fortification health + garrison health to zero.

But I believe a new city in civ 6 will have zero for both values. I could be wrong, but I thought that you will be able to walk into new cities until an unit is garrisoned or walls are built.

 

[Windsor]

I've always thought that there should be some penalty for being a warmonger, such as a negative diplo modifier or something. Civ 5's method is too harsh. I'll wait to see if Civ 6 has any better system. If Beach is saying that there is a minimal penalty in the early game, that might give players an incentive to do early rushes again. I don't think they were feasible in Civ 5. At least I was never able to get one to work. City bombardment and enemy units would take out my units long before I could take the city. Granted, I'm not the most brilliant Civ 5 player around.

Something that I would like to see is an AI in Civ 6 that can take your city if your unit goes wandering about and leaves it unguarded. You know how in BTS, you can start with a warrior instead of a scout? Well, if you send your warrior off to explore, leaving a city unguarded, what is to stop an AI warrior from taking your city? Nothing really, except that the game doesn't do it. An AI warrior can waltz right past your empty city and ignore it. I've been trying to make the AI declare when it finds an empty city a reality in Better BAT AI, but so far I haven't had much success with it. If Civ 6 has such a mechanic, though, it might be a good thing. It would certainly curb some forms of exploration, and it would be more realistic.

Civ5's warmonger penalty isn't just harsh, it feels completely arbitrary. As for diplo modifiers, I think the goal should be to only include modifiers that emulate human players behavior. So if you want something like Civ4s "You have wisely chosen civics" there should be an actual game mechanic that make it profitable for Civs to share civics.

AI "roleplaying" should naturally emerge for the mechanics, and not be something you force them to do. Same goes for tactics such as early rushes. Early war should be viable, but it's important to make it fair for the receiving end too. If it's not, well then you just created an exploit only humans can use because if you teach the AI to rush, then humans just ragequit.

 

[Lennier]

What's really missing is a penalty for declaring war on one's own friend. If you declare war on my friend, we might be able to patch things up eventually. If you declare war on your own friend, you can't be trusted.

 

[Aristos]

What's really missing is a penalty for declaring war on one's own friend. If you declare war on my friend, we might be able to patch things up eventually. If you declare war on your own friend, you can't be trusted.

Huh? The negative modifier for DoWing a friend in Five is HUGE, and the consequences drag on for the entire game.

 

[Lennier]

I never played V, so I didn't know that. Wasn't in IV.

 

[Nicol.Bolas]

Nuff said.

Probability of success: zero.

 

[shakabrade]

After seeing some gameplay and ridiculous religious combats, I am actually optimistic.

Game interface seems more intuitive, you can see a lot of by just glancing the map, information on the screen will be detailed and after some mods, even more, civic tree and tech tree in parallel, ability to blend different civics into one form of government. I'd say that the game will be complex and that there will be many competing options for achieving the same goal. Vanilla will be sufficiently good and after patches and expansions, Civ 6 could really shine (but please let me turn of units animations as I don't care for those).