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Civ4 Realism Mod (Extended Gameplay and tweaks)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by jaynus, Nov 4, 2005.

  1. Isak

    Isak Civ4 Scenario Designer

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    I've just tested it, and it worked fine for me. :) No problems loading saved games either.

    To make it work:

    1. Create a new folder in your 'Mods' folder, and name it 'Realism'
    2. Put the Realism.ini file, and all the .txt files in that folder.
    3. Create a new folder in the 'Realism' folder, and name it 'Assets'
    4. Put your XML folder and it's contents inside that.
    5. Start the game
    6. Choose Single Player
    7. Choose Load Mod
    8. Select 'Realism' from the list of mods and press OK
    9. Game now restarts, and once you're back in the menu, just select Single Player and start a game as you normally would.

    If that doesn't work, please let me know what errors or odd behavior you get.
     
  2. jaynus

    jaynus Chieftain

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    You are correct sir :)

    I will post it with the next version, I have no idea why i couldnt get it working. I was probably doing something ********.
     
  3. Simetrical

    Simetrical Chieftain

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    Some largely long-term thoughts:

    1) Separate out the philosophy-type techs from the actual technologies. Ideally, these should work from a totally different system. The number of prerequisites for them should be more limited, and they should be gained semirandomly instead of via research (Great Prophets could perhaps spawn them on generation, along with a religion?). They would also spread between trading partners fairly rapidly, being much less faction-specific than actual technologies. In some cases, of course, they should still retain prerequisites, when their implementation would be completely hypothetical without a certain technology, or when they aren't logical without certain antecedents (e.g., socialism stemming from the wide use of unskilled labor in factories).

    2) Put less emphasis on "liking you" in diplomacy. All nations should be self-interested enough to give almost anyone almost anything in exchange for a good deal, short of actual wartime conditions.

    3) Add more diplomatic options, and have fewer of them contingent on technologies. Unilateral protection agreements come to mind, but I'm sure there are others.

    4) Allow any diplomatic option to be traded for any other.

    5) Eliminate the seemingly baseless hatred that some factions have for each other. If two factions aren't at war and haven't been at war, they should have no objections to anyone trading with the other. (Possibly later on more sophistication could be added for Cold War-type conflicts, but those should be corner cases.)

    6) Technologies should gradually spread between factions even without direct trading. The probability per turn of spread would depend on a) strength of relationship between the relevant factions and b) an index within the tech itself (Writing would have a very high index, for instance, whereas Fission would have a very low one; in general, they would depend on the degree to which the tech could plausibly be kept secret).

    7) "Future Tech" should ultimately be removed and replaced with some actual possible future technologies.

    8) The Alpha Centauri win condition should be ditched and replaced with the condition of learning super-advanced techs such as Universal Nanoconstruction plus Artificial Superintelligence or the like, which would make you so powerful that actually conquering the world would be a formality. Seriously, who cares about Alpha Centauri?

    9) The tech tree should, in general, be much more flexible, so that you have more options at any point, but those options should perhaps take longer. Ultimately, combined with #6, this would mean that most technologies would be obtained through gradual leaks or other cultural interchange, rather than through direct personal research.

    Now some more specific and readily implementable suggestions:

    1) Until #1 in the general suggestions is implementable, all philosophical or "idea" techs should be removed as prerequisites for anything (except other philosophical techs) and have their research costs and effects sharply reduced. These include: Mysticism, Polytheism, Meditation, Monotheism, Priesthood, Monarchy, Code of Laws, Theology, Civil Service, Feudalism, Philosophy, Music, Literature, Drama, Guilds, Divine Right, Education, Liberalism, Nationalism, Military Tradition, Democracy, Constitution, Corporation, Fascism, Communism. Most of these should have their prerequisites removed, too, or at least most of them.

    2) Here are some examples of what the prerequisites should be for certain early technologies, as #9 above (I have reasons for all of these if you want to hear my reasoning).

    Hunting: None, and all factions should start with it (we're talking pre-Stone Age here―how could any society have eaten before the Green Revolution without hunting, just foraging?).

    Polytheism, Meditation, Sailing, Pottery, Animal Husbandry, Archery, Monotheism, Writing, Monarchy, Drama, Code of Laws, Currency, Calendar, Civil Service, Philosophy, Music: None.

    Bronze Working, Masonry, Iron Working, Compass: Mining only. (Magnetic compasses can be constructed using lodestone or other materials that are not, strictly speaking, iron.)

    Priesthood, Theology, Divine Right: Mysticism OR Polytheism OR Monotheism.

    Literature, Mathematics: Writing.

    Metal Casting, Machinery: Bronze Working OR Iron Working OR whatever Aluminum harvesting requires. (However, Machinery and/or things requiring Machinery will be far more expensive without Metal Casting.)

    Feudalism: Monarchy.

    Optics: Machinery.

    Engineering: Mathematics.

    Paper: Writing. (In principle, you can make paper without knowing how to write, but I can't think why anyone would think of it.)

    Guilds: Not quite sure. Your civ should have to have divided labor for guilds to exist, so it should be sometime in the Classical period at the earliest, but I don't know what a good prereq should be.

    Banking: Currency.

    Construction: Remove entirely, since it makes no sense.


    Those are just the early techs, of course, but you can see what I'm driving at: a much broader tech tree. The current one is far too fatalistic.
     
  4. jaynus

    jaynus Chieftain

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    Wow O.o I like your ideas.....Can I steal them all? :p

    Seriously though....I would love to have someone as creative as you around to talk to and bounce ideas with...
     
  5. Simetrical

    Simetrical Chieftain

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    Sure thing, glad you like them. I'd be willing to help with the XML a bit, too.
     
  6. Goatmaster

    Goatmaster Chieftain

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    Nov 6, 2005
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    Here are some of my ideas (probably mostly useless ;) )

    Modern units should have more advantage over older units.

    Perhaps doing something to land based artillery, like extending the range since in real life they rarely see their targets.

    The ICBMs seem kind of weak for the negative reaction and global warming they cause.

    The stealth bombers should have either a greater range or unlimited like ICBMS. I read you wanted to have supply issues, maybe you could have a support fuel plane that could extend their range. It may unbalance things but it would be nice if they would get hit less since they are stealth.

    Since I've only had the chance to play America so far I think you should allow navy seals on the submarines :D

    I am not sure about this, but it does seem weird that the helicopter can't cross the ocean. Maybe they could only move a few spaces over ocean. As I said I dunno, but it would be cool to have like anti sub helicopters on boats.

    Have you considered adding modern non stealth bombers?

    Some random crazy ideas: Transporting troops via helicopters, paratroopers, armored cars that can transport troops and perhaps allowing aircraft to actually destroy units (especially boats).

    My last thought is it would be nice to be able to use the satellites you research or perhaps UAVs to see some of the enemy terroritory sometimes.
     
  7. SlayerofDeitys

    SlayerofDeitys Chieftain

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    Just so you know nuclear submarines are not necessarily quieter than diesels. The fact is that a diesel running on batteries is next to impossible to locate but when it snorkels to recharge its batteries, that's when it's broadcasting its location. There are also different types of nukes that have varying degrees of sophistication. You could include a Boomer and an attack sub that are nuclear powered for example and that's just talking about the US. The Swedish have developed a very interesting system for subs as well.
     
  8. Lachlan

    Lachlan Great Builder of Civs !

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    I will surely wait 1.0, but good work !!!

    What do you think to include splitting empires :eek:
     
  9. Lachlan

    Lachlan Great Builder of Civs !

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    And make a normal world map not an huge plz

    I play with 18 civs on normal random map ==> FUN :mischief:
     
  10. Lachlan

    Lachlan Great Builder of Civs !

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    I must choose English imperatively ?

    Because i love play in my native language (French)
     
  11. DeadZoneMDx

    DeadZoneMDx Chieftain

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    This is a good idea, but need to be careful as it might get out of hand

    Im quite enjoying this mod (put in the "insane barbarian" mod on top, and its a party)

    Cant wait for future releases
     
  12. jaynus

    jaynus Chieftain

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    Lachlan - If you are willing to translate, then you can play in French!!! lol. I don't know any other languages, and really would need people to go through and translate for me. I have literally a list of things that need translating in there.

    SlayerofDeitys - I stand corrected, sir. Perhaps just leaving the extended range bonus (because taht is obvious) and just get rid of the power bonuses? Or should I remove it all together and re-organize how I am doing that?

    Goatmaster & Simetrical - I liked alot of both of your suggestions and observations :) I have added alot of them already. 0.5 will contain *alot* of these changes, and I should be posting it tonight.

    In other exciting news, 0.5 will also contain the python framework for buildable resources (Musket Factory, Oil Refinary, etc) *AND* expendable resources (limiting units per resource tile).

    This is only implemented on Musketman and Muskets (Musket Factory), but it is a framework setup to be able to copy-paste to every single other resource using unit in the game. Yay!
     
  13. Youri

    Youri Chieftain

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    What I would like to see is that a recource is handled completely different, more like how a regular RTS handles recources.

    I'll give an example. Lets say there is some iron you're mining. Each turn, if a city would be actively mining there (so not just within your borders), that city (or the capital if they are connected) gets an amount of iron (lets say 1/turn). Once you will build a swordman, the stack of iron gets reduced by the iron cost (lets say 10 iron) to build it.
     
  14. DeadZoneMDx

    DeadZoneMDx Chieftain

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    Heres an idea (if it hasnt been brought up yet)
    See if you can add in a new type of mountain terrain, still impassible, except to workers (which will allow road building, so other units can pass through)

    This will be rarer than normal mountains
    But will at least allow some sort of passage through some mountain ranges

    What do you think?
     
  15. rappstar

    rappstar Chieftain

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    I'm not sure what I've done. It loads fine but hangs up when I try to load a saved game. It says that MODS/realism is not a valid folder. But it will start the game from it. Any suggestions?
     
  16. jaynus

    jaynus Chieftain

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    In a few hours I'll be posting a version taht installs *only* as a Mod in the mod folders and that will be that.

    As for saved games, I *believe* you have to start a saved game in the mod to finish it using a Mod-style installation. Im not sure however; I need to look into how it effects saved games. I will probably include a way to install it the old way so no one loses their saved games.
     
  17. Isak

    Isak Civ4 Scenario Designer

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    Ah yes, it might be due to some quirk in the installation. Where did you install the mod?
     
  18. woodelf

    woodelf Bard Retired Moderator

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    Wow, great start to this Mod jaynus. I'll wait for the next version to get posted and jump right into it.
     
  19. SlayerofDeitys

    SlayerofDeitys Chieftain

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    Obviously the increased range makes sense but I think I would also leave the increased power that you have given it to represent better weapons technology I suppose. If you really want to get in depth with submarines it would require a lot of work given all of the different types and variables. For example the Russian Oscar II may very well be the mother of all subs being designed to take out US aircraft carrier battle groups. If you do decide to work extensively on the naval aspect I should be able to help and if I don't know the answer I know people who do. One thing I would like to see for coastal cities is to give them the ability to build an IUSS (Integrated undersea surveillance system) station. Basically it's just a bunch of cables laid at the bottom of the ocean and it is used to detect enemy submarines that may be off the coast of a country. The nice thing is you can also pick up other ships so it could reveal a few more squares of the FOW out into the ocean with the ability to see all naval vessels. It might come in handy for picking up an enemy invasion fleet. On another note just the other day I was thinking about how to implement a reserve system in the game for resources. That way when the enemy cuts you off from your oil for example you may still have emergency reserves to supply your units. Cities could also demand a certain level of oil or be unhappy due to increased gas prices. Gee sound familiar? I can't shake the feeling though that it is going to require a lot more resources if you make them expendable although that would certainly make things more interesting. Maybe you could also add a technology to cut city fuel consumption such as solar powered vehicles or hydrogen fuel cells.
     
  20. jaynus

    jaynus Chieftain

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    update posted! You may/may not get ingame random python errors. They are intermitent.

    Again, If you get python errors, just delete the Mods\Realism\Assets\Python directory to play if its too annoying, otherwise please post errors your getting. (I left it there to test it).


    SlayerOfDietys - I'll post a response tonight, I definitely do want to go in that direction though :)
     

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