Civ4 Realism Mod (Extended Gameplay and tweaks)

Simetrical:dubious: Are you quoting [I said:
computer games[/I] as evidence? As it happens, I've played many, many strategy games, mostly set in premodern times. I don't set any store by their developers' interpretations of reality; in fact, I worked for some months (although not very hard, granted) on a mod to make Rome: Total War more realistic, and in fact am still nominally part of such a mod.

Hey! So am I! I guess you were a member of the RTR team, since you brought it up?

I'm a bit hazy on Imperial Rome, however—they did eventually adopt cataphracts as support, definitely, at least the Eastern Empire, but such units were always used for support only. As support, of course, cavalry could be a great deal more useful than a monetarily equivalent amount of infantry, but only as support.

Cataphracts were adopted relatively early; they were already in existence during the 2nd century CE, although only in small numbers.

It's instructive to note that just about the only all-cavalry armies in history consisted of horse archers; why, if cavalry could defeat infantry that costed the same amount?

Actually, many armies of the Germanic states of the Dark Ages/Early Middle Ages used cavalry consisting almost entirely of heavy, charging cavalry (eg. proto-knights). Some of the early expeditions sent by the HRE (when it was still the eastern half of the former Frankish empire) against the Magyars in the 9th century or so were almost entirely of heavy cavalry.
 
Anyway, to get back to the actual issue (is this mod even alive, anyway?) and tackle the actual units, and wether they should get anit-foot boni or not:

Chariots - Most modern research indicates that standard combat chariots (ie not scythed chariots) were primarily used as mobile archery/javelin platforms when fighting against infantry, so no bonus here.

War Charitos (Egyptian UU) - Same here.

Immortal (Persian UU) - Humm, I believe this is a fantasy unit (the real Immortals not being horse-borne), and Persian cavalry weren't extraordinarily heavy, so a bonus prolly wouldn't make sense...

Horse Archer - Shouldn't get any bonus, either, really. Should get a much greater chance of withdrawing, tho. Maybe a chance for a first strike?

Keshik (Mongol UU) - I don't really think they should get a bonus either; the strength of the Mongols lay rather in their superior strategic mobility, discipline and leadership than in the ferocity of their charges... Give them an extra move if anything...

War Elephant - Elephants were deadly to just about everything, so yeah, they should get a bonus.

Knight - Here I'm unsure. Perhaps it's justified?

Camel Archer (Arab UU) - Boy is THIS a silly unit or what?? Oh, well. Camels, when used, were almost exclusively an anti-cavalry weapon, so ol' smelly should get a hefty anti-mounted bonus instead.

Conquistador (Spanish UU) - Should get a bonus if the knight does.

Cavalry - The problem here is that the unit represents so many things; both the charging cuirassiers of the Napoleonic era, and (judging by the graphic), the rifle-armed cavalry of the ACW and later eras (and, YES, the Polish hussars...). If only we still had the Dragoon/Cavalry setup of good ol' Civ 2. As for right now, I'm torn.

Cossack (Russian UU) - The Cossacks were by definition light cavalry, but IF we give a bonus to the regular Cavalry we should probably give it to the Cossacks too.


DIDN'T MAKE THE CUT:

Samurai - Could someone please tell me what the heck is up with Firaxis and their fetish for putting Japanese warriors on foot??? Stupid.
 
Hello I have the same problem as described earlier. It is not possible to load any save game genrated form this mod :mad: . I have not found a workaround in this thead. Please help, thanks OLGE.:cry:
 
siroxo said:
One thing I thought of the first time I played it through was that if anything the discovery date for uranium should be well before the vanilla version. Uranium has been known for almost 2000 years (although known commonly for about 150).
But it's unrealistic to give players (and AI) the advantage of knowing its location before they should technologically know that it's useful. Some people would be able to identify uranium in 1800, sure, but they wouldn't make particular note of it. They certainly wouldn't bother mining it. Better to only make it visible when someone figures out it could be useful (maybe it shouldn't have to be you who figures it out?).
ledfan said:
http://www.hyw.com/books/history/Medi0000.htm
http://www.roman-empire.net/army/army.html

Again, the sources and references these websites used need to be checked, but both state that even the roman professional army lost out to heavy cavalry used in the battlefields by german tribes. The second one says that the roman army was compleatly reformed after one decisive battle (a reformation that was needed before hand, but the romans hadn't got round to it!)
Indeed, I never denied that cavalry could prove decisive. So could infantry. The occasional sound defeat of infantry by cavalry doesn't mean that cavalry should get a bonus against infantry; under some circumstances it could be devastating, yes, and in most circumstances it was very useful, but the same could be said of most types of soldiers. Neither infantry nor cavalry should receive blanket bonuses against the other—spearmen should receive a modest bonus against cavalry, and horse archers against infantry, but I wouldn't say much beyond that.

I wouldn't give pikemen a bonus against cavalry, incidentally. Cavalry's vastly greater maneuverability probably gives them an advantage if anything (not counting pike squares protecting missile units, a tactic which I think might have been used in medieval times?). Just leave them even.
Instant_Cereal said:
I was thinking... Wouldn't it be realistic if Rome's legions have 2 moves to represent Rome's superior logistics and discipline and a city attack bonus to represent their engineering skills?
Giving them two moves is way too much as things are set up now. City attack bonuses due to engineering ability should be granted by techs such as Engineering, not to particular units or civs.

It would be nice if the run-of-the-mill unit had two moves instead of one, actually. That would allow more flexibility for creating impediments and movement aids of various sorts as appropriate. With one move as the base, the only bonuses can be multiples of 100%, and no penalties can be applied at all.
whyisciv4sobugg said:
No oil needed to make ICBMs? Don't ICBMs contain plastic and other petroleum derived parts?
They don't have to.
anti_strunt said:
Hey! So am I! I guess you were a member of the RTR team, since you brought it up?
Yeah, I was (look at the 6.0 credits, or the website credits). Now I'm theoretically an EB member, although I don't really contribute much. You were an RTW realism mod member? Under what name?
anti_strunt said:
Horse Archer - Shouldn't get any bonus, either, really. Should get a much greater chance of withdrawing, tho. Maybe a chance for a first strike?
It would be great if HAs got, say, a 95% chance of withdrawing against infantry, and a 60% against cavalry (but 0% against anything equipped with a motor or rifle). They would have to be completely rebalanced, though, of course.

I think all ranged units should get first strike to some degree. Something like

Straight bow: 1 first strike chance.
Composite bow, longbow, early guns/cannons, slings: 1 first strike.
Rifled gun/cannon: 1 first strike + 1 first strike chance.
Computer-aided cannon (Modern Armor, maybe some ships): 3 first strikes + 1 first strike chance.
Missile (Gunship, maybe some ships, and also SAM Infantry but only when fighting Gunships): 4 first strikes + 1 first strike chance.

The latter two developments are a major step up, quite intentionally. I'm picturing the First Gulf War, where the advanced M1 Abrams computer-aided weaponry completely annihilated the outdated Soviet tanks used by the Iraqis, without the latter getting close enough to fire accurately.
anti_strunt said:
War Elephant - Elephants were deadly to just about everything, so yeah, they should get a bonus.
No, I don't think so. Horses were typically terrified of elephants, but prepared infantry could take them on without too many casualties. Of course, they'd lose some men, but if you're sufficiently acquainted with war elephants that you don't run, it's not that hard to mob them and injure them badly enough to make them flee.
anti_strunt said:
Knight - Here I'm unsure. Perhaps it's justified?
I don't think so. They shouldn't get more of a bonus against infantry than cavalry.
 
OT:
Yeah, I was (look at the 6.0 credits, or the website credits). Now I'm theoretically an EB member, although I don't really contribute much. You were an RTW realism mod member? Under what name?

Way to many RTW players here....j/k

I wouldn't give pikemen a bonus against cavalry, incidentally. Cavalry's vastly greater maneuverability probably gives them an advantage if anything (not counting pike squares protecting missile units, a tactic which I think might have been used in medieval times?). Just leave them even

I agree, a cavalry commander would have to be crazy to purposely charge headlong into a formation of pike units. Instead a smart commander would charge around the pikes and attack the flanks. So in game terms, they just null the others advantages out. I would just rather see pikeman vs cavalry, be even then see one get a bonus over the other.

This may be an interesting topic to check out: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=142558

I'm planning on including something like this in my Medieval mod.

Kushan
 
olge said:
Hello I have the same problem as described earlier. It is not possible to load any save game genrated form this mod :mad: . I have not found a workaround in this thead. Please help, thanks OLGE.:cry:

any error message from game?

i had similiar problem with loading saved games, whem mod was instaled into user directory , when mod is instaled in program files/firaxis/..., then all is working fine
 
Quick question/comment about city razing....

I always thought that city razing should be allowed in the early era's, but then disabled after some point in the game.

Razing a city was indeed a viable option a few hundread years ago, but today wouldn't be an acceptable solution to capturing a city. Making the end of city-razing tied to acquiring a certian tech, or entering a certian time period would maybe reflect how ideas about acceptable behavior in war has changed.

just a thought, great mod!
 
Mexico said:
any error message from game?

i had similiar problem with loading saved games, whem mod was instaled into user directory , when mod is instaled in program files/firaxis/..., then all is working fine

I am getting and error message about an invalid mod under the My Games folder. So I move the mod under Program Files. But the saved game has a path in there so I changes that too (with notepad). Now the games seems to refuse the file. :confused:

Is there any way to rescue my (winning) game? :cry: Or do I need to start new?
 
I cannt download the 0.6 version!!!
"The requested URL /jaynus/CIV4_Realism_v0.6.zip was not found on this server."
 
When I try to download your mod, I receive the same message. Maybe, you should place it at some file hosting (i.e. rapidshare.de or smth like that)
 
"Acceptable behavior in war"? Who enforces this acceptable behavior in war? Maybe you can have some of the other civs whine at you for razing cities in later stages of the game, but as evidenced by some of the unacceptable behavior we have witnessed lately (torture, etc.), for the sake of realism it shouldn't be turned off.

JahtheIII said:
Quick question/comment about city razing....

I always thought that city razing should be allowed in the early era's, but then disabled after some point in the game.

Razing a city was indeed a viable option a few hundread years ago, but today wouldn't be an acceptable solution to capturing a city. Making the end of city-razing tied to acquiring a certian tech, or entering a certian time period would maybe reflect how ideas about acceptable behavior in war has changed.

just a thought, great mod!
 
The download link in the original post does not work. Get a page with a rude message on it instead.
 
olge said:
I am getting and error message about an invalid mod under the My Games folder. So I move the mod under Program Files. But the saved game has a path in there so I changes that too (with notepad). Now the games seems to refuse the file. :confused:

Is there any way to rescue my (winning) game? :cry: Or do I need to start new?

sorry, you must start new game :-(, - editing saved game is not working
 
yes the link does not work, can u plz upload it somewhere else so we test this MOD

thanx
 
David Smith said:
Has this great mod died???? Does no one know what happen? :cry: Is there any hope for this MOD??? :confused: Can we find someone to carry on? :aargh: :help:
my words great mod
Who and where is JAYNUS ??
 
if ur breaking up with us J at least give us some closure :(
 
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