Civ5 in China

Wait what?
Why on earth would they do this???

Because Qomolangma is a tibetan name with tibetan culture,maybe the big brother want to keep it, even though everyone think that the chinese gov want to destroy tibetan culture.
BTW: The everest has another name "sakamata" in Nepal, maybe fewer and fewer Napal people know it.:crazyeye:
 
Not to start a whole series of spam...but when you always talk as if you are better than some place in the world you should at least look at your own society in the same subject.

I think we could say the natives in America being an older version of what China is trying in Tibet. Again this is not meant to discuss the cultures really. I am only pointing out that if this was 1850 the USA would be censoring supposed Native American claimed Nations as well.

Yes I believe China is wrong about it, but please don't pretend that there are not restrictions in every country.

I realize I'm replying to an old post, but on the off chance you catch this, you realize the Iroquois are a Civ in the game, right? America isn't pretending the past didn't happen. Having Lhasa in the Chinese version of Civ5 is certainly to be controversial. If they had Taipei or Hong Kong as City-States, it would be downright blasphemous.
 
They banned starcraft 2 because it was called wings of liberty.
 
How would that be any worse then Russia, The UK, and the US being invaded and destroyed by Germany?

Because the Chinese government is hypernationalist and hypersensitive. The others aren't, to anything like the same extent. [Well, Germany is hypersensitive to Nazi stuff, with good reason, but it doesn't try to deny the real history.]
 
They banned starcraft 2 because it was called wings of liberty.

As far as I know they only banned it from one public event called China Joy because "Starcraft 2 is much too bloody, which will severely affect the mental as well as physical health of adolescents” which is silly reason nevertheless.
 
Because the Chinese government is hypernationalist and hypersensitive. The others aren't, to anything like the same extent. [Well, Germany is hypersensitive to Nazi stuff, with good reason, but it doesn't try to deny the real history.]

It just pretends it doesn't exist.:rolleyes:

BTW haven't seen you on the ciV side in a while, or maybe I am blind. You never can tell with me.
As far as I know they only banned it from one public event called China Joy because "Starcraft 2 is much too bloody, which will severely affect the mental as well as physical health of adolescents” which is silly reason nevertheless.

Yeah but the Koreans got a seriously toned down version, so why not China? Also one must remember that this is the country that want's to make it impossible for there citizens to see things on the web that include the word "liberty".
 
It's exactly this kind of Orwellian reality-bending propaganda and censorship that concerns me about China. There are a lot of people predicting the decline (soft fall) or even collapse (hard fall) of the American empire that's dominated the world by most measures since the end of WWII and by all measures since the fall of the Soviet Union two decades ago. Those same voices usually cite China as the ascending superpower that may take a similar hegemonic role in global politics.

I would much rather see India ascend to such a position of power--and fortunately, there are a lot of historians and analysts who think it possible--just because of China's repressive nature.

Why, I wonder, does China insist on keeping its collective consciousness closed in so many curious and, frankly, deluded ways? When I see the mind set of the aging generation in America, the ones who just swept the Tea Party into some degree of political power, and the way they cling to similarly self-serving mythologies I wonder if it's some sort of prerequisite for empire.

Maybe you have to be fooling yourself to think you can rule the world, even if you turn out to be right for a time.
 
Not to start a whole series of spam...but when you always talk as if you are better than some place in the world you should at least look at your own society in the same subject.

I think we could say the natives in America being an older version of what China is trying in Tibet. Again this is not meant to discuss the cultures really. I am only pointing out that if this was 1850 the USA would be censoring supposed Native American claimed Nations as well.

Yes I believe China is wrong about it, but please don't pretend that there are not restrictions in every country.

Well, though the actions of American nationalists during that period are indefensible, they are certainly demonstrably different.

Americans did argue for the superiority of their culture and race--and they often argued this at the end of superior firearms.

The idea that maybe the Native American culture had its own values worth considering and their own rights to their land was not censored in 19th century America, though. Quite the contrary, it was a central idea in American Romanticism. (Not that the Romantics did much to stop the "Manifest Destiny" of the United States.)

More to the point, though, that was the 19th century. If China wants to be a leading power in the modern world, then they need to step into that modern world by allowing for open discourse and trusting their citizenry to judge history for themselves.

Hell, they'd probably find that freedom would only make it easier for their people to swallow their ridiculous propaganda--case in point, Fox News.
 
Maybe old wisdom made China to think that 'democracy' doesnt fit they way of life? and besides if every country will adopt democracy it will be so boring....:)
 
Self-interest of peanut gallery watchers and oligarchs in power are not the best arguments around.
 
It's a fundamental human right to be self-governed.

Rofl! What a lie. Humans were never self-governed. We just replaced beasts and nature with different beasts and the unnatural. Humans are primarily governed by fear, because it's hardcoded that fear promotes self-preservation. Exceptions to this rule are exceptions.
 
Rofl! What a lie. Humans were never self-governed. We just replaced beasts and nature with different beasts and the unnatural. Humans are primarily governed by fear, because it's hardcoded that fear promotes self-preservation. Exceptions to this rule are exceptions.

That's a charmingly cynical, if utterly irrelevant, response.

Whether people are ruled by fear or not is not what matters. What matters is that they are not ruled by other human beings. That's the right to self-governance.
 
Well, Mr. Quattromaster, its just that I'm fed up with all the China bashing by people who won't spare even 5 minutes of their time to actually think about what China is.

China is huge. So huge that it dwarfs every other nation in its population size. It also has many languages, many customs, many ideas, many interests, many liars etc.

Keeping China unified and "up and running" is not an easy task. It's bordering the impossible.

China is "getting there". But slowly. At its own pace. Getting richer and more influential in the process.

To quote mr. Zhang Yan, China's envoy to India:
"Relations are very fragile, very easy to be damaged and very difficult to repair. Therefore they need special care in the information age".

Of all the governance systems ever implemented, China's skill and experience is the most likely to be copied if, ever, a global government arises. If it can handle over a billion people, it is very likely it can handle 6 billion.

I believe in a very basic human right to have a father and a mother. Where's the West with this concept? Failed, utterly. Not just in the legal system, but in education and motivation of future parents as well.

Most "western" families (a union of two people) fail most of the time, yet those same people look down on a system that tries to keep a union of 1.38 billion people running.

Oh, they can't play Starcraft 2 or Civilization V. Boo-hoo.
 
I agree with you Bibor.
Personally i am very facinated with China, the more i learn especially about the history and culture. I also hold the belief that our western idea that our way of life is the 1 only way to happiness and justice doesnt neccessarily have to be true.
There are always people of a different opinion, and we frankly dont have the right to impose our way of living onto any others against their will. Then if that will is the will of the few leader or the people is a judgement to be made.
But indeed the truth cannot be avoided, the "blade runner future" we face will be dominated by mandarin and indo, not only due to the population growth but also due to the industrialization in China and India.

And although some nations may have methods which the western world deems inhumane, we must face the reality that the vast majority of the population in these nations are very patriotic. Is it our right to dismiss their patriotism as uneducated "they dont know whats good for them" nonsense, and move on to impose our standards on them? I think not.



But i disagree with your statement that "Humans were never self-governed. We just replaced beasts and nature with different beasts and the unnatural. Humans are primarily governed by fear, because it's hardcoded that fear promotes self-preservation. Exceptions to this rule are exceptions."

Its a pretty common cynical "cool-thing-to-think-these-days".
We're not primarily governed by fear, nor is it hardcoded anymore. We've not evolved much in terms of physical evolution since 10000 or 100000 years ago, when we roamed the steppes, but we've evolved far more in terms of mentality and co-existance than people with that cynical opinion give us all (yourself included) credit for.

Even if our brains remain nearly identical, how we use it has changed alot.
Of course you can make examples of a man born and grown up in the wilds, but the modern examples include as you said, billions of people living together, many of which (what was the latest statistic, over half of the worlds population?) live in cities now.

Something which was inconcievable 100,000 years ago, not only because of the low human population but because we simply did not THINK in the method required to co-exist to that extent.
We did truly think in a fear-driven self-preservation manner, and if we still did we would not have cities with millions of inhabitants and nations with up to a billion inhabitants.
These arent millions and billions of maniacs driven by fear, resorting to any means possible for self-preservation, these are real people, not beasts or animals anymore.

The exceptions, are the beasts, the murderers and state leaders (they are the ones who declare war, not the civilians).
They are the ones who are driven by fear and self-preservation, not the majority.
Going to the store to pick up a loaf of bread isnt driven by fear.
Assassinating a foreign diplomat or declaring war to prevent nuclear proliferation, that is driven by fear, and the tiny minority.
 
Civ 4 underwent quite a few chops and changes to make it into China, and I can already see the censors making their lists and checking them twice for Civ5. First to go? The city state of Lhasa.

:sarcasm:

"Tibet is, and always has been, an inalienable part of China. Western game developers should mind their own business and stay out of China's internal affairs."

Or something like that.

I am surprised the civfanatics website is not blocked / censored in china.

China is a sad place.
 
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