Civ6 June Update Video

[Jewelrunna]

They are going above and beyond what they have ever done for a Civ game in terms of support. The game is nearly 4 years old now. Complaining about completely free updates is the epitome of entitlement.

Or you could read it as constructive criticism and pointing out things that have been well-documented by the community as needing attention!

Since they've already gone on record saying they're going to update the game for another year, we might as well point out stuff we as the community want to see improved. Are we being a bit harsh? Sure, but hey, being emphatic in your tone makes you more likely to be noticed. I just want Civ VI to be the best game it can be, and I think it's really, really close to being there.

Just writing off all criticism as "entitlement" isn't constructive or helpful at all.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

Perhaps, but here's the thing. They cut off Civ V's support early (perhaps too early, considering how many obvious bugs are in the final release), but because they released the source code, players were capable of fixing it themselves and making it into something better.

As far as we can tell right now, they're choosing not to do this with Civ VI. Which means that the official updates need to be "above and beyond" their previous efforts. It'd be patently unacceptable if they weren't, because without the ability for the "entitled playerbase" to fix it themselves for free, it'd just be broken forever otherwise. And if on the other hand they do intend to release the code once the product is at EoL... the updates should still be good enough to justify that release being delayed for two years following GS.

And even if this is "entitlement"... so what? It's better to be too entitled than to be too lenient. An entitled consumer, at the end of the day, is just trying to protect something they love; an overly lenient one would allow it to fall into ruin.

Just goes to show how the culture of entertainment has changed from being consumer or customer oriented to "We will make whatever we want and you will buy it anyway". Anyone ask for standard comic book heroes to get a skin color, sexual orientation, or gender change? No. They make it that way because art, agenda, politics, fashion, whatever. You ask them to make another movie/show regular version? They mock and deride you instead and insult the customer some of them. Even worse, you have a contingent of people like Pokiehl that will accept anything no matter the lack of polish and love it, then look down on others that desire higher quality.

I could not do that in my line of business. If a customer wants something very specific, I make it for them. As long as it doesnt break code or laws, it's fine by me. Does Hollywood and the videogame industry give fans what they want? No. Not anymore at least. Good games are slim pickings these days. When I was a kid I could not play all the good games that were out on Super Nintendo because I just did not have enough time or money to buy and play them all. Now? Heh! I play roughly the same 5 games year after year.

At least Firaxis staff does not insult it's fanbase. I give them a ton of credit for that because way too many game developers are doing that these days. They keep their mouths shut and do their own thing the way they wanna do it. I may still criticize their art, but at least I do not have to put up with being called names or mocked and derided for features or things I wanted in their games, that they are unwilling to offer. Call me old fashioned but I appreciate that at least.

What they really need is just some friendly competition. If Humankind can inspire them to step their game up by being a rival to them, they will get better too. At least I hope they do.

 

[Socrates-]

Happy that the exploits have been removed. Not that I used any, but just so the ‘nagging’ about them can stop now.

Looking forward to try out the new beliefs. I don’t expect them to be that much of a difference for me personally, but it’s fun to have some new flavors added to the list!

Sadly, because I’m playing civ on the console I won’t be able to give Red Death a try. However, it’s supposed to be a multiplayer-only scenario right? In that case won’t be missing much action.

Also, since they announced a livestream next week about Red Death season 2, any idea what the second private video on the YouTube-channel could be about?

 

[IvoryPavane]

Just goes to show how the culture of entertainment has changed from being consumer or customer oriented to "We will make whatever we want and you will buy it anyway". Anyone ask for standard comic book heroes to get a skin color, sexual orientation, or gender change? No. They make it that way because art, agenda, politics, fashion, whatever. You ask them to make another movie/show regular version? They mock and deride you instead and insult the customer some of them. Even worse, you have a contingent of people like Pokiehl that will accept anything no matter the lack of polish and love it, then look down on others that desire higher quality.

I could not do that in my line of business. If a customer wants something very specific, I make it for them. As long as it doesnt break code or laws, it's fine by me. Does Hollywood and the videogame industry give fans what they want? No. Not anymore at least. Good games are slim pickings these days. When I was a kid I could not play all the good games that were out on Super Nintendo because I just did not have enough time or money to buy and play them all. Now? Heh! I play roughly the same 5 games year after year.

At least Firaxis staff does not insult it's fanbase. I give them a ton of credit for that because way too many game developers are doing that these days. They keep their mouths shut and do their own thing the way they wanna do it. I may still criticize their art, but at least I do not have to put up with being called names or mocked and derided for features or things I wanted in their games, that they are unwilling to offer. Call me old fashioned but I appreciate that at least.

What they really need is just some friendly competition. If Humankind can inspire them to step their game up by being a rival to them, they will get better too. At least I hope they do.

It is consumer focused. You, as the consumer, can choose to not buy the product if it doesn’t align to your core beliefs or meet the quality that you expect.

I agree with you though that we should refrain from coming down on each other because this is all subjective and we will all react in different ways (not sure what the specific issue is and I’ll stay out of it).

Also not sure where the gender, sexual orientation, skin colour etc came from but gives me a chance to give my PSA that representation does not equal agenda

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Just goes to show how the culture of entertainment has changed from being consumer or customer oriented to "We will make whatever we want and you will buy it anyway". Anyone ask for standard comic book heroes to get a skin color, sexual orientation, or gender change? No. They make it that way because art, agenda, politics, fashion, whatever. You ask them to make another movie/show regular version? They mock and deride you instead and insult the customer some of them. Even worse, you have a contingent of people like Pokiehl that will accept anything no matter the lack of polish and love it, then look down on others that desire higher quality.

I could not do that in my line of business. If a customer wants something very specific, I make it for them. As long as it doesnt break code or laws, it's fine by me. Does Hollywood and the videogame industry give fans what they want? No. Not anymore at least. Good games are slim pickings these days. When I was a kid I could not play all the good games that were out on Super Nintendo because I just did not have enough time or money to buy and play them all. Now? Heh! I play roughly the same 5 games year after year.

At least Firaxis staff does not insult it's fanbase. I give them a ton of credit for that because way too many game developers are doing that these days. They keep their mouths shut and do their own thing the way they wanna do it. I may still criticize their art, but at least I do not have to put up with being called names or mocked and derided for features or things I wanted in their games, that they are unwilling to offer. Call me old fashioned but I appreciate that at least.

What they really need is just some friendly competition. If Humankind can inspire them to step their game up by being a rival to them, they will get better too. At least I hope they do.

Man, say what you want about the current game or whatever; but I can not remember a civ team that added things to make fans happy, or done more with the game post-initial release, since I started playing civii.

 

[Jewelrunna]

Man, say what you want about the current game or whatever; but I can not remember a civ team that added things to make fans happy, or done more with the game post-initial release, since I started playing civii.

I'll second that I appreciate that they're at least trying. I think they're going about it in entirely the wrong way, but at least they're trying.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I'll second that I appreciate that they're at least trying. I think they're going about it in entirely the wrong way, but at least they're trying.

I mean they're not the things I necessarily wanted, but they are things other people did. Oddly enough I sometimes wish they would have listened to fan chatter a bit less.

 

[criZp]

I don't really understand why what they did with the games in the past should be relevant now. As if I should lower my standards because these past games got less updates. I just expect them to iron out all the annoyances, isn't that much to ask, I think.

 

[Jewelrunna]

I mean they're not the things I necessarily wanted, but they are things other people did. Oddly enough I sometimes wish they would have listened to fan chatter a bit less.

Hey as long as I get more units and y’all being better in some capacity, I’ll be happy. I’d like more flavor to techs, but that’s just gravy.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

It is consumer focused. You, as the consumer, can choose to not buy the product if it doesn’t align to your core beliefs or meet the quality that you expect.

I agree with you though that we should refrain from coming down on each other because this is all subjective and we will all react in different ways (not sure what the specific issue is and I’ll stay out of it).

Also not sure where the gender, sexual orientation, skin colour etc came from but gives me a chance to give my PSA that representation does not equal agenda

Dude, do not confuse consumer choice with consumer focused. Those are two entirely different concepts. Of course I do not have to buy it. Everyone understands that. That is basic stuff. That said, myself and many others ask Firaxis to fix or add <insert item>. They choose more often than not to add/fix things I and many others did not ask for. Hardly customer focus. There is a list bigger than several pages of things people reported or requested. Obviously they cannot get to everything, but there are massively glaring issues that they won't address. 4 years in, it's obvious, they do not care about fixing it. That's their choice. I speak for myself when I say I still like the game, but I refuse to pretend the issues doesn't exist because they do not care about it.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

I don't really understand why what they did with the games in the past should be relevant now. As if I should lower my standards because these past games got less updates. I just expect them to iron out all the annoyances, isn't that much to ask, I think.

I like what you said. It's succinct and drives home the point. If I bought a 2010 corvette that had (i dunno) 450 horsepower. Why would I want to buy a 2026 corvette that is electric and has 250 horsepower? Why would I want that if I am used to something faster or higher quality? Not trying to be a difficult jerk, just being honest here.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

Man, say what you want about the current game or whatever; but I can not remember a civ team that added things to make fans happy, or done more with the game post-initial release, since I started playing civii.

Sort of. They added thing for sure that some players wanted no doubt. Then again, what about all the other things others have asked for? If you cater to a certain percentage, that is not everyone.

They do communicate a ton more. I give them credit for that, it is awesome, but again, what about the known issues, bugs, etc. that have been reported for years? If they said they were never going to fix xyz bugs or xyz issues, I would appreciate that. Of course that would anger some people, but I am biased towards bluntness and honesty. That's just me though.

 

[MisterBoomBoom]

Thank you for the zombies and aliens! Finally!

 

[IvoryPavane]

Dude, do not confuse consumer choice with consumer focused. Those are two entirely different concepts. Of course I do not have to buy it. Everyone understands that. That is basic stuff. That said, myself and many others ask Firaxis to fix or add <insert item>. They choose more often than not to add/fix things I and many others did not ask for. Hardly customer focus. There is a list bigger than several pages of things people reported or requested. Obviously they cannot get to everything, but there are massively glaring issues that they won't address. 4 years in, it's obvious, they do not care about fixing it. That's their choice. I speak for myself when I say I still like the game, but I refuse to pretend the issues doesn't exist because they do not care about it.

Well we can agree to disagree here.

There is a contingent of people here who enjoy religion and enjoy these announced changes.
To them, these are consumer focused changes. Ultimately, this is the second of twelve changes and time will tell if the things they concern you will get addressed.

I do agree with you on many of the points you have made. And I think that if people make their voice heard, then they are more likely to get the changes they would like to see.

However, I think you are coming across as quite aggressive to other posters and the developers (and for the record, I’m not “dude”, I’m female), and I think you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

Hey as long as I get more units and y’all being better in some capacity, I’ll be happy. I’d like more flavor to techs, but that’s just gravy.

While it would be nice for the base game to have the same level of detail and variety that Civ5 had on units, Warfare Expanded: Reloaded does a VERY VERY nice job as a mod to fill in those gaps. I am getting to a point where I must use this mod to play the game and enjoy it. The base game is way too boring having tried that mod. God bless whoever created that mod, you are an awesome person. I would buy you a case of beer if I could.

 

[acluewithout]

Religion is a great mechanic. I think a lot of people under appreciate it.

I do think it’s a bit sad FXS haven’t taken the opportunity to expand the Religious units roster a bit more and haven’t created a few more Religion v Loyalty mechanics. But overall the Religion changes look good, and it’s a key area of the game that needed balancing. Honestly, these changes are a massive buff for every Civ that uses Religion.

Red Death needed more polish. It’s a cool little “scenario” mini-game. So, it’s a good thing to have gotten attention.

Yeah, I wish the update did more with other mechanics. And yeah, I’m looking forward to more content that’s less fantastic and whimsical. But there’s nothing to say we won’t get more of that sort of more historical content, the game does have room for some fantasy and whimsy, and it really is only early days so let’s see what happens.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

I mean they're not the things I necessarily wanted, but they are things other people did. Oddly enough I sometimes wish they would have listened to fan chatter a bit less.

Nothing wrong with listening to fans, but honestly if every game dev company did that, most games would be duplicates of Walking Dead, Minecraft, or Fortnite. It's okay to get ideas from fans, but at the end of the day, solid design principles make or break games. Many people would love the game if the design was incredible regardless of the theme. Quality in terms of bugs matter too, I may have a high tolerance for bugs, but some folks have almost none. The big picture is to put together something solid, whatever it is.

I just found out there is a game called Old World, that some lead designer from Civ4 created. Many Civ folks regard 4 as the best of the series. Maybe I will check that game out too, but it would be great if more competition existed so that these devs can bring the best out of each other as rivals. That's one of the benefits of capitalism. Civ 6 may have 11 patches to go or whatever, I doubt those patches will be big enough to fix underlying issues. Just small stuff. Call me pessimistic if you want to, but history does not seem to suggest they will overhaul badly designed mechanics this late in the game's life. I am okay with it, it is what it is. Hopefully they can reflect and make Civ7 something incredible just to get the jump on the other guys.

 

[Bitterman]

Pagodas are now absolutely broken imo. Like now having one regular religious building equals the amount of favor you get for having an alliance with other player, being suzerain of a City State or building some wonders. Really?

And the same goes for Work Ethic. Someone like Brazil or Russia (or anyone really) can break the hell out of the early game with that belief.

I'm baffled to be honest. Don't know what they were thinking about.

Also what to say about the monks... Well, nothing, since the monks themselves had like 0 changes. They are still the same bad unit as before just with a minor buff to an abbility completely irrelevant and independent of them.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Nothing wrong with listening to fans, but honestly if every game dev company did that, most games would be duplicates of Walking Dead, Minecraft, or Fortnite. It's okay to get ideas from fans, but at the end of the day, solid design principles make or break games. Many people would love the game if the design was incredible regardless of the theme. Quality in terms of bugs matter too, I may have a high tolerance for bugs, but some folks have almost none. The big picture is to put together something solid, whatever it is.

I just found out there is a game called Old World, that some lead designer from Civ4 created. Many Civ folks regard 4 as the best of the series. Maybe I will check that game out too, but it would be great if more competition existed so that these devs can bring the best out of each other as rivals. That's one of the benefits of capitalism. Civ 6 may have 11 patches to go or whatever, I doubt those patches will be big enough to fix underlying issues. Just small stuff. Call me pessimistic if you want to, but history does not seem to suggest they will overhaul badly designed mechanics this late in the game's life. I am okay with it, it is what it is. Hopefully they can reflect and make Civ7 something incredible just to get the jump on the other guys.

(Old World is fun, a little more fighting than I usually play but it's a good time. Just keep in mind that its a work in progress and there are still some things I don't really understand how they're supposed to work.)

There are certainly some things I'd like to see them hammer out before they're done. Of course I said the same thing about previous ones and that didn't stop me from playing a whole lot, so . . .

 

[Leucarum]

My issue with religion is how much micromanagement is involved :/ I like the concept I just wish it was less fiddly. As it is I don't enjoy games where I try to win a religious victory and mainly use religion to spice up a game or support another win type, and it's pretty interesting for that. For that reason I very much like that the DF from a religious building has been added....