Civ6 June Update Video

[Tiger Genocide]

Which is why I fear of coming off too heavy-handed, but again, if there's something you want to see added to the game to improve it, now's the time to be vocal about it. This is in all likelihood Civ VI's last ride.

I would bet money this last pack and the 12 patch is the end of Civ6. They might already be working on Civ7 or will start after the last patches.

I think you're sadly on point with everything here.

The thing is, I'm not even really asking for huge changes to the game's systems. I think, by in large, Civ VI's systems work very well. I mean, religion could use some overhaul, but that's really the only one that stands out as poorly designed to me.

The only things I really wanna see from Civ VI are threefold. One, give players an incentive to build tall. It's hard to grow your city to be super populous, but you don't get any rewards for doing so. Improve specialists, and maybe add some scaling modifiers to pop, like for every citizen you get a little more science and culture, maybe production, and add exponential multipliers for reaching a certain pop milestone (like your citizens give more of each value at 10, 15, 20 pop etc.). Two, improve the unit tree. I have no idea why they decided to add more horse units out of all the units they could've added. Buff anti-cav units and add Longswordsmen and Riflemen. Maybe add more unique modern units, like Marines & Paratroopers in the modern era. Give and if you really wanna add more cavalry units, drop one in the Renaissance Era. The unit progression tree is severely outdated and a remnant of vanilla Civ VI's unit-tree philosophy (have the dominant class of each tech era alternate). Now, there's no reason to just have cavalry be the clear choice in every era. Plus, some of those unique units that don't have an analog in their era (Khevsur & Samurai in Medieval, Garde Imperiale & Redcoats in Industrial) would be much, much better if they replaced a unit that could be upgraded into. Third, and this is the most minor one, add some extra flavor to certain techs. Some techs are just pretty barren in the Medieval through Renaissance era, Rifling and Astronomy being the most glaring examples. Just adding something like a city-center building or a tile improvement buff to those techs would make them so much more valuable to tech, and just subjectively feel better once you tech them. Like you've been rewarded more researching a technology.

Notice how none of those ideas I'm posing fundamentally change the game's systems as they stand. They're really minor additions or buffs to improve the ones that already exist.

Well said. I think the Diplomacy Victory/Agenda system is the worst designed aspects of the game, but the lack of tall gameplay has been a massive complaint from day one. It's almost like everything people did not like in Civ5 or was afraid of (World Congress could be tough on you), difficult to play wide, etc. then they did the opposite for 6. It's so wacky, like why do that? What is wrong with having both styles be viable but with tradeoffs or something? Lady Six Sky, while a good idea, is actually a bad civ in 6, due to poor design that favors wide. They did not even think about how to correctly set up her housing and food to get tall in the first place? There are not enough tiles for districts and wonders because she has to settle so close. Why didn't they add housing to her districts? Trying to play her on Prince or King is so-so. Emperor to Deity is a friggin mess or a nightmare. If you have to take another civ's city that forward settled you, they are almost always outside the "magic ring" to avoid the penalty. Did they even test her on Deity? Doesn't look like it to me. If you use the AI difficulty mod "Real Strategy", on Emperor or higher, forget about it. I had to quit about 3 games using that mod because it was just way too hard to get things right with her.

The lack of synergy in the gameplay mechanics and like one guy in the thread said earlier, about how religious civs did not get any stronger but civs like Austrailia just did with the religion improvements. Do they not realize that production is king in Civ6 (mostly) and not realized that some civs might abuse that? If Maya is supposed to be a tall science based civ, why so wonky and awkward in gameplay? I just don't understand their logic sometimes.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

https://twitter.com/FiraxisGames/status/1273675723623014402?s=19

Red Death s2 livestream on Wednesday.

 

[bite]

Updated the Features Thread will all the new information

 

[bite]

Well normality has returned, I 100% slept through this announcement

As one of the few people here that actually enjoyed Red Death, I am really linking the changes, and the observer mode is a really important addition

 

[bbbt]

I love the new changes to beliefs!

I always took Burial Grounds so now is a little better.

I'm affraid with the chage to work ethic, I really think is going to be OP.
For example, Russia will be even more unstoppable. Well, Japan and Brazil are going to have a good time too

Brazil might be the most extreme since they can stack their UA with Scared Path. Tho he doesn't have any leg up on getting a pantheon, unlike Mali or Russia. But all three (or anyone with good placements for sacred path/deset folklore/dance of the Aurora) could end up with +10 production holy sites pretty early with scripture.

 

[Morningcalm]

The main thing I like about these changes are those to the Diplomatic Victory--the belief tweaks are nice but I am confused as to why they changed the warrior monks belief to have culture bombing attached to it. Doesn't quite go thematically with monks IMO.

Don't mind the changes to Red Death either, though I would have liked to see some other balance tweaks--perhaps there are some other ones that will catch our eye when the full patch notes are released though. It wouldn't be the first time a wonderful (albeit minor) change is made off-notes either.

 

[MrRadar]

Sometimes I genuinely wonder if the devs actually play their game.

They probably do. At least some aspects of it. I also wonder, do they use their own diplomacy screen, for example, where they make trade deals with the AI. Carl probably doesn't, because he's too much into war

But somebody must have, because it got an update - you can now change the size of the windows drag them up or down. Sadly, as almost 4 years ago, this screen does not tell you at a glance which luxuries AI or you already actually have, and which not so much. As almost 4 years ago you must go to the report screen, squint at the mini icons there down at the bottom, then come back and try not to forget what you've seen there. Adjusting trade amounts is as painful as before. Concise UI mod enables you to change amounts by 1, 10 and 100 with one left or right click of the mouse, but with nearly every patch it gets broken and its author is justly fed up with this.

I just wonder what goes in their mind when they decide to make an almost irrelevant change in the UI (window resizing) and a MAJOR annoyance persists well into the 4th year after release.

Trade between civilizations was a big thing in early times, wasn't it? It still is, isn't it? So why this UI is so uncooperative? To say nothing about glaring trade and pricing imbalances and bugs themselves...

Sorry for the salt, but this particular sort has been piling up for nearly 4 years. And nothing so far indicates that it will stop piling up...

 

[Jewelrunna]

I would bet money this last pack and the 12 patch is the end of Civ6. They might already be working on Civ7 or will start after the last patches.



Well said. I think the Diplomacy Victory/Agenda system is the worst designed aspects of the game, but the lack of tall gameplay has been a massive complaint from day one. It's almost like everything people did not like in Civ5 or was afraid of (World Congress could be tough on you), difficult to play wide, etc. then they did the opposite for 6. It's so wacky, like why do that? What is wrong with having both styles be viable but with tradeoffs or something? Lady Six Sky, while a good idea, is actually a bad civ in 6, due to poor design that favors wide. They did not even think about how to correctly set up her housing and food to get tall in the first place? There are not enough tiles for districts and wonders because she has to settle so close. Why didn't they add housing to her districts? Trying to play her on Prince or King is so-so. Emperor to Deity is a friggin mess or a nightmare. If you have to take another civ's city that forward settled you, they are almost always outside the "magic ring" to avoid the penalty. Did they even test her on Deity? Doesn't look like it to me. If you use the AI difficulty mod "Real Strategy", on Emperor or higher, forget about it. I had to quit about 3 games using that mod because it was just way too hard to get things right with her.

The lack of synergy in the gameplay mechanics and like one guy in the thread said earlier, about how religious civs did not get any stronger but civs like Austrailia just did with the religion improvements. Do they not realize that production is king in Civ6 (mostly) and not realized that some civs might abuse that? If Maya is supposed to be a tall science based civ, why so wonky and awkward in gameplay? I just don't understand their logic sometimes.

The thing that annoys me the most is that Civ VI is so, so close to being an incredible game and even the best in the series. It just needs slight finetuning to make the systems and progression feel good, rather than cumbersome. But instead what we get is the devs moving around things that don't really matter or the addition of modes and features that no one asked for. If Warrior Monks get culture bombs, what does that really mean for the belief? Nothing! If you thought Warrior Monks were bad before, they're still bad for the same fundamental reason. Stacking two beliefs that were bad together doesn't make it good now; it just means that you now have two bad gameplay modifiers in one belief. Choral Music still blows it out of the water. All adding production modifers for adjacency to Work Ethic does is make Australia OP. Neither of them makes religion itself good now, because of the direct opportunity cost associated with religion. I personally think the system is somewhat beyond salvaging in Civ VI, and the developers should really go back to the drawing board for Civ VII.

The other stuff I've suggested though, that is easily integrated into the game as it stands and would make it noticeably better. For me, just adding those three changes would make Civ VI the best in franchise, easily.

 

[The Highwayman]

Religion is still meh but imagine Russia with DotA and work ethic. And the Pagoda giving a stacking +1 gpt from each Pagoda from selling the favor is quite nice. Hopefully the AI doesn't take it first.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Although I've been one of the more critical voices in this thread so far, I will add that I'm not so concerned about this update representing 'the shape of things to come'. I do appreciate that it's pretty cool we're getting so many free updates alongside the DLC bundles, and I'm sure there'll be stuff in those that will be more to my liking. It's just a little disappointing that the first one went to Red Death, considering I have no interest in it and it's also been relatively recently added to the game.

Oh well. Let's see what else is in the patch notes!

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Sometimes I genuinely wonder if the devs actually play their game. I realize that sounds a bit harsh, but stuff that we’re posting in this thread and others has been a problem for a long, long time. And instead of fixing those core issues, what we get is... warrior monks give holy sites culture bombs? Is this a joke?

I mean, these are the people that it took basically three years of the game’s lifespan to realize “oh whoops, our game has a huge production scaling problem and coastal cities are kinda awful”. And while that patch solved those issues rather elegantly, that’s pretty much the only patch I can think of that meaningfully improved the game. Every other patch has just been sort of a dressing of new content or minor tweaks don’t fix any of the core problems.

Yes, I realize I’m being harsh and that we should also wait until the complete patch notes are out. But, the fact that developers chose to highlight these religious changes tells me they think that’s the biggest takeaway from the patch. And, since we’re in the middle of a patch cycle, we should be very critical of the game and point out the stuff that needs fixing, because now is the time when they can fix the game.

What do you mean by core problems. Just asking, it's always better to discuss specific issues.

 

[Jewelrunna]

Religion is still meh but imagine Russia with DotA and work ethic. And the Pagoda giving a stacking +1 gpt from each Pagoda from selling the favor is quite nice. Hopefully the AI doesn't take it first.

For a second I thought this was a joke about Russians and Dota 2. TI here we come.

 

[newbie2]

oh yeah, red dead, thats still a thing...

 

[Jewelrunna]

What do you mean by core problems. Just asking, it's always better to discuss specific issues.

I've posted some already in this thread, but here:

The only things I really wanna see from Civ VI are threefold. One, give players an incentive to build tall. It's hard to grow your city to be super populous, but you don't get any rewards for doing so. Improve specialists, and maybe add some scaling modifiers to pop, like for every citizen you get a little more science and culture, maybe production, and add exponential multipliers for reaching a certain pop milestone (like your citizens give more of each value at 10, 15, 20 pop etc.). Two, improve the unit tree. I have no idea why they decided to add more horse units out of all the units they could've added. Buff anti-cav units and add Longswordsmen and Riflemen. Maybe add more unique modern units, like Marines & Paratroopers in the modern era. Give and if you really wanna add more cavalry units, drop one in the Renaissance Era. The unit progression tree is severely outdated and a remnant of vanilla Civ VI's unit-tree philosophy (have the dominant class of each tech era alternate). Now, there's no reason to just have cavalry be the clear choice in every era. Plus, some of those unique units that don't have an analog in their era (Khevsur & Samurai in Medieval, Garde Imperiale & Redcoats in Industrial) would be much, much better if they replaced a unit that could be upgraded into. Third, and this is the most minor one, add some extra flavor to certain techs. Some techs are just pretty barren in the Medieval through Renaissance era, Rifling and Astronomy being the most glaring examples. Just adding something like a city-center building or a tile improvement buff to those techs would make them so much more valuable to tech, and just subjectively feel better once you tech them. Like you've been rewarded more researching a technology.

 

[Infixo]

I am disappointed. Half of the video about changes from GCM. Balance changes - just beliefs. Nothing about UI, nothing about AI. I don’t care about Red Death.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

The problem with "elite play" is that it ultimately comes down to min-maxing everything, and when everything is balanced for elite matches you just can't have very interesting or unique abilities, because everything has to be insanely finely balanced.

It's not even balanced It's a one way to victory path called meta break.
But you know, sometimes I think that they are not a problem. The real problem is their player base echo. Deeply immersed in tier lists and guides loudly complaining about the state of AI and Georgia weakness but somehow still playing on prince. This is where fun dies and salt and toxins are born

 

[Casworon]

Very excited to see what modders can do with the zombies and the aliens.

Bring on the late game crisis zombie uprisings and alien invasions

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

I've posted some already in this thread, but here:

Ok sorry, I missed that. Those are very fair points. And quite easy to manage in patch

 

[dexters]

Hmm, i wonder if there will be any bug fixes for consoles? I guess that's up to Aspyr eh?

 

[pokiehl]

Man you guys complain a lot about free stuff. I'm thrilled with this update. Religious belief balance pass is awesome.