Civics for Mercurians

[Luckmann]

What civics would be good for the Mercurians? I'm thinking mostly in Economics, but it'd feel a bit shallow to start a thread on that alone. Suggestions? Ideas?

Personally, I've been going Theocracy/Social Order/Warfare, until I realized that Social Order, despite being thematically fitting for the Mercurians, are beyond useless for them and completely beyond saving. I've been thinking about Conquest for Economy, but how useful is it to construct units with food? Personally, I think it'd gimp me beyond belief, but one of you maybe want to step up and defend it? Never actually tried it.

So what gives?

 

[Monkeyfinger]

For economy they should run agrarianism just like everyone else. Government's standard for them too - start with god king, then change to either aristocracy or city states as their territory swells. Which one to adopt probably depends on what improvements your conquered neighbors were using.

Values are a bit more of a mess. Social order is useless for them because they don't have happy caps, right? In that case, civics like nationhood or religion which help by blunting unhappiness lose steam (though if you're super desperate for unit production nationhood might still be worth considering). Uh.... pacifism is an oddly decent option if lots of good guys are dying and you're swimming in angels. You don't need to build units so the military production penalty doesn't hurt you, the WW penalty obviously doesn't matter, and they can afford to run a lot of specialists for pacifism to magnify. Scholarship could be solid too if you'd prefer more productive specialists to more great people. Liberty... you ignore the drawback, but the advantage doesn't help you much (lol mercurian culture.)

Labor and council are never clearcut for any civ. Similar considerations that other civs have for these categories should apply to the mercurians (are you building a lot of units? Using lots of specialists? Short on production? What alignment are you? What's the overcouncil up to, and can you control it? etc). Case by case basis.

 

[Luckmann]

Some solid suggestions, thanks. It's a bit wierd that most of the most thematically fitting civics are fundamentally useless to the Mercurians. I was considering Pacifism too but I almost cringe at the idea of running it as Mercurians, Liberty too, but as you say - Mercurian culture, say what? I'm also partial to Cottage spam since I've at least been trying to keep to Theocracy, which in turn makes Agrarianism somewhat useless.

Annoying, these Mercurians, when it comes to reconciling what is thematic with what's mechanically viable.

 

[cabbagemeister]

I don't understand what's wrong with Social Order for the Mercurians? Mercurians don't ignore happy caps, and tons of free low-level angels to serve as military police synergizes nicely with the civic, IMO.

 

[Luckmann]

I don't understand what's wrong with Social Order for the Mercurians? Mercurians don't ignore happy caps, and tons of free low-level angels to serve as military police synergizes nicely with the civic, IMO.

Unyielding Order in all cities for free, all the time.
So yeah, it's completely useless. So is Basilica and Courthouse (another thematic breach, imo, but I don't see any way around it since Unyielding Order itself is pretty thematic ).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

It would make more sense if Unyielding Order were a Law III spell again instead of being of The Order.

 

[cabbagemeister]

Unyielding Order in all cities for free, all the time.

Not in the test game I just ran (Worldbuildered in Fanatacism, a second city, and a GE and built the gate on turn 2). Mercurians had unhappiness just like everyone else.

 

[Luckmann]

Not in the test game I just ran (Worldbuildered in Fanatacism, a second city, and a GE and built the gate on turn 2). Mercurians had unhappiness just like everyone else.

I recently patched to the latest FfH2 patch but got some glitches. First time I ever played the Mercurians, so I thought to myself "Can this really be right, that they're supposed to have Unyielding Order everywhere?". For pretty much that reason alone, I redownloaded and reinstalled all of FfH2.

It's still there. Unyielding Order in every single city.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

don't underestimate conquest, aside from letting you build units with food it also gives them +2xp. nothing to frown at, it's the same bonus as apprenticeship which is generally considered a good worthwhile civic all throughout the game. same with theocracy. the real problem here is that city states, aristocracy and agrarianism are way too good compared with the other options in their respective columns.

( I consider the civics in Orbis to be a lil bit too complex and sometimes unnecessarily TOO different from the vanilla FFH ones - aristocracy and conquest come to mind - , but they're still heaps and bounds better, they actually give you a choice since they're all worthwhile in the right situation )

 

[Bootsiuv]

I rather enjoy the civics from Orbis, and prefer them too those of FFH....I don't feel forced to run Aristo-agrarianism, seeing as how Aristo is completely different in Orbis.

I've actually been having an enjoyable game with the Calabim where I've used God King the entire game to good effect. Although it is a small sized map, and my empire is only 5 cities, I'm still far ahead tech wise.

 

[Tasunke]

anyways ... I highly doubt Mercurians would start out with high priests, ergo they would have happiness caps, cause Angels cant become high priests iirc. Now, assuming you already had all the appropriate techs, then you could stop worrying about happiness for your top 4 cities after 4 priests have achieved level 6. Honestly ... Angels are ALOT more straighforward than that.

Just build acolytes/thanes as fast as you can, and have them accompany your mobility 1 axemen raiding parties. Then you can pillage your enemy (with the axes) and all your enemy gets to choose between, is more pillaged improvements, or more cheap angels for you SOONER. yes, yes, Ive even killed a diseased corpse or two with enough Thanes.

However, if this isnt your style, or if you dont have enough extra money from a ROK economy, or high difficulty, ect, then just build priests up to a high level and THEN use them as meat in your armies. Either way, its a really good mechanic if you build up the foundations. However, its necessary to have high level units around to be able to burn into elite angels, so occasoinally building some priest units is a regardless requirement.

As for civics, godking first, as well as hopefully consumption, agrarianism, guilds(or caste system), and basically just anything that supplies PLENTY of money for those extra angels.


and yea ... in an unBugged version you only get Unyielding Order from the 4 priors and Sphener

 

[Luckmann]

It appears that you're all right. I apologize. I really have no idea what went wrong, since I haven't even remotely touched anything relating to Unyielding Order while tweaking around, nor does those Unyielding Orders in all my cities appear to be going anywhere, and there's certainly not Priors in all of them. However..

[...]
and yea ... in an unBugged version you only get Unyielding Order from the 4 priors and Sphener

What about Seraphs? Seraphs start with Divine and Channelling 3, so they should presumably have access to Unyielding Order - so that's a grand total of 9 Unyielding Orders.

Just nitpicking, since they come into play so late anyway that they'll be of no consequence most of the game.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The Angel gifting code has no chance of giving the angels a religion, so Seraphim can never cast diving spells despite their promotions. The Seraphim's promotions haven't been changed since back when Divine+Channeling+Fire 2 was Ring of Fire and Divine+Channeling+Fire 3 was Pillar of Fire.

(Note: I always change it so that Angels and Manes do keep the religion that the units had before death.)

 

[Luckmann]

[...]

(Note: I always change it so that Angels and Manes do keep the religion that the units had before death.)

How would one go about doing that? Because that makes by far the most sense to me.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Go to CustomFunctions.py and change def giftUnit to

	def giftUnit(self, iUnit, iCivilization, iXP, pFromPlot, iFromPlayer,[COLOR="Red"] iReligion[/COLOR]):
		iAngel = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_ANGEL')
		iManes = gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_MANES')
		if (iUnit == iAngel or iUnit == iManes):
			iChance = 100 - (CyGame().countCivPlayersAlive() * 3)
			iChance = iChance + iXP
			if iChance < 5:
				iChance = 5
			if iChance > 95:
				iChance = 95
			if CyGame().getSorenRandNum(100, "Gift Unit") > iChance:
				iUnit = -1
		if iUnit != -1:
			bValid = False
			for iPlayer in range(gc.getMAX_PLAYERS()):
				pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(iPlayer)
				if (pPlayer.isAlive()):
					if pPlayer.getCivilizationType() == iCivilization:
						py = PyPlayer(iPlayer)
						if pPlayer.getNumCities() > 0:
							iRnd = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(py.getNumCities(), "Gift Unit")
							pCity = py.getCityList()[iRnd]
							pPlot = pCity.plot()
							newUnit = pPlayer.initUnit(iUnit, pPlot.getX(), pPlot.getY(), UnitAITypes.NO_UNITAI, DirectionTypes.DIRECTION_SOUTH)
							newUnit.changeExperience(iXP, -1, false, false, false)
							newUnit.setWeapons()
							[COLOR="Red"]
							newUnit.setReligion(iReligion)[/COLOR]
							
							if (pFromPlot != -1 and gc.getPlayer(iFromPlayer).isHuman()):
								bValid = True
							if pPlayer.isHuman():
								if iUnit == iManes:
									CyInterface().addMessage(iPlayer,True,25,CyTranslator().getText("TXT_KEY_MESSAGE_ADD_MANES",()),'AS2D_UNIT_FALLS',1,'Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions/Demon.dds',ColorTypes(7),pPlot.getX(),pPlot.getY(),True,True)
								if iUnit == iAngel:
									CyInterface().addMessage(iPlayer,True,25,CyTranslator().getText("TXT_KEY_MESSAGE_ADD_ANGEL",()),'AS2D_UNIT_FALLS',1,'Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions/Angel.dds',ColorTypes(7),pPlot.getX(),pPlot.getY(),True,True)
							
							
							if (pPlayer.isHuman() == False and iUnit == iManes and pCity != -1):
								if CyGame().getSorenRandNum(100, "Manes") < (100 - (pCity.getPopulation() * 5)):
									pCity.changePopulation(1)
									newUnit.kill(True, PlayerTypes.NO_PLAYER)
			if bValid:
				if iUnit == iManes:
					CyInterface().addMessage(iFromPlayer,True,25,CyTranslator().getText("TXT_KEY_MESSAGE_UNIT_FALLS",()),'AS2D_UNIT_FALLS',1,'Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions/Demon.dds',ColorTypes(7),pFromPlot.getX(),pFromPlot.getY(),True,True)
				if iUnit == iAngel:
					CyInterface().addMessage(iFromPlayer,True,25,CyTranslator().getText("TXT_KEY_MESSAGE_UNIT_RISES",()),'AS2D_UNIT_FALLS',1,'Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions/Angel.dds',ColorTypes(7),pFromPlot.getX(),pFromPlot.getY(),True,True)

and in CvEventManager.py change this

			if (unit.getReligion() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_COUNCIL_OF_ESUS') or unit.getReligion() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_THE_ASHEN_VEIL') or unit.getReligion() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_OCTOPUS_OVERLORDS') or unit.isHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_DEATH1')) or unit.isHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_ENTROPY1'))):
				cf.giftUnit(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_MANES'), gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_INFERNAL'), 0, unit.plot(), unit.getOwner())
				cf.giftUnit(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_MANES'), gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_INFERNAL'), 0, unit.plot(), unit.getOwner())

			if (unit.getReligion() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_THE_EMPYREAN') or unit.getReligion() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_THE_ORDER') or unit.getReligion() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_RUNES_OF_KILMORPH') or (unit.getUnitCombatType() != gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_ANIMAL') and pPlayer.getCivilizationType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_MERCURIANS'))):
				cf.giftUnit(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_ANGEL'), gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_MERCURIANS'), unit.getExperience(), unit.plot(), unit.getOwner())

to this

			if (unit.getReligion() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_COUNCIL_OF_ESUS') or unit.getReligion() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_THE_ASHEN_VEIL') or unit.getReligion() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_OCTOPUS_OVERLORDS') or unit.isHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_DEATH1')) or unit.isHasPromotion(gc.getInfoTypeForString('PROMOTION_ENTROPY1'))):
				cf.giftUnit(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_MANES'), gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_INFERNAL'), 0, unit.plot(), unit.getOwner()[COLOR="Red"],unit.getReligion()[/COLOR])
				cf.giftUnit(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_MANES'), gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_INFERNAL'), 0, unit.plot(), unit.getOwner()[COLOR="Red"],unit.getReligion()[/COLOR])

			if (unit.getReligion() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_THE_EMPYREAN') or unit.getReligion() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_THE_ORDER') or unit.getReligion() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('RELIGION_RUNES_OF_KILMORPH') or (unit.getUnitCombatType() != gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_ANIMAL') and pPlayer.getCivilizationType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_MERCURIANS'))):
				cf.giftUnit(gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_ANGEL'), gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_MERCURIANS'), unit.getExperience(), unit.plot(), unit.getOwner()[COLOR="Red"],unit.getReligion()[/COLOR])

 

[Luckmann]

I love you.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

That's even better looking at your Basium profile picture. It's like I can hear "I love you, and I give you this Hyborem's testicals as proof of my devotion."

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Well, Basium does mean "kiss."