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Civilisation Attributes open discussion

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. Cosmos1985

    Cosmos1985 King

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    The Brexit house. Annulls all open border treaties and defensive pacts with continental European civilizations when you build it, but half of your population now believes that you have a vast colonial empire and is the scoreboard leader, no matter what the situation really is. 50% chance for Scottish cities to go independent. Unlocks numerous new LHs which changes every few turns.
     
  2. trevor

    trevor Warlord

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    Something to do with insurance? Lloyd's of London started in a coffee house. Similarly, the life insurance industry got it's contemporary start in Scotland.

    Maybe replace current UP with something else & give the city maintenance bonus to a coffee house/warehouse UB (the idea being that because of insurance the losses from city distance/corruption/etc are recouped)?
     
    Crimean Lord likes this.
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    I was trying to think of a Warehouse UB because it kind of fits, but there is no specific building I could think of to replace it?

    What if it's a Wharf replacement? Like a shipyard, or dockyard? Trade routes, ship production or experience, and maintenance reduction in case the UP is changed would all fit such a building.
     
    trevor and 1SDAN like this.
  4. Cosmos1985

    Cosmos1985 King

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    With regards to ship production and/or experience, it makes sense for sure, but wouldn't it somehow be "too much" when there is also the Trafalgar Square wonder? I don't know. It does indeed sound quite fitting for the English though, otoh.
     
  5. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Well, technically, the English don't own the Trafalgar Square wonder.
     
  6. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    and it'd help them get Trafalgar
     
  7. LikeNothing

    LikeNothing Chieftain

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    Common Bench/Exchequer, replaces Civic Square (or Courthouse, or a similar Statesman building)

    Possible Effects:
    • :) or Stability bonus (I think Courthouse already boosts Stability, not sure if Civic Square does?), representing how the Common Law adapts flexibly to local traditions;
    • Earlier unlock than similar buildings, representing how England is a forerunner of the modern parliamentary/representative system & balance of powers;
    • :commerce: or :traderoute: bonus, representing how English Law is generally recognized as the best for commerce (most of the commercial and banking law in the EU remain English Law, post-Brexit);
      • This is also the most consist with current UP & Elizabeth & Victoria's Financial Trait in vanilla CIV; this also benefits Coastal cities more.
    • Allows more Statesman (I am quite sure of this) and/or Merchant (I am less sure of this) Specialist slots.
    The English UUs are early modern/colonial, and its UP (which I think should be changed, btw) is colonial. Ideally the UB should at least somewhat represent pre-colonial England.
     
  8. Publicola

    Publicola Prince

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    I'm wondering if we could use something like 'Prize Court', to indicate England's naval tradition. Not sure exactly what it'd look like, or what it'd replace, but the bonus should be along the lines of extra :gold: and bonus :hammers: production for pre-Industrial ships -- whenever a British ship seized another nation's ships, the contents were sold in a Prize Court and the ship itself was refitted for use in the British navy.
     
  9. WhiteEyes

    WhiteEyes Chieftain

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    Lets talk about the Arabs and bit of the Moors
    Moorish starting date
    Currently, Arabia have one of the most ahistorical playthrough (the other one being the Turks) due to their explosive expansion IRL and their ingame interaction with the Moors. Historically, the Muslim conquest of Iberia was taken by the Umayyad Caliphate not Moors, with the Emirate of Cordoba going independent later in 756. So, I suggest moving Moorish spawn date to 756. Maybe give them conditional spawn based on Arabia's GPT output, since Arabs have terrible economy in early game.

    UU

    Poor Ghazis get overshadowed by Mobile Guards for lot reasons:
    -No starting xp from Stable
    -Requires Iron/Copper while the MG only requires Horse. Acquiring Horse is much easier for Arabs than Copper or Iron. Unless there is starting road at Cyprus Copper.
    -Unlocked too late, as Arab player I usually beeline Doctrine for Theocracy xp bonus, and already unlocking Mobile Guard along the way.
    -They give no help against the Seljuks
    -They are worse at taking cities compared to MG.
    Possible buff or new UU idea would be giving them first strike or withdraw chance like the MG, make them a Swordsman replacement(that needs no iron nor copper) to have them unlocked early, and no upkeep so you can train lots of them early game without further hurting your economy.

    Also, Mubarizun sounds like a nice alternative UU name for the Ghazi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mubarizun

    UB

    Just like my criticism on The House of Wisdom, the tech UHV is already winnable with the scientist pump from Great Library. No room for science building cause you need to train armies all the time. Not sure what building could replace the Alchemist, maybe buff it to +1:science: per desert resources(date, camel, salt)? Or +1:hammers: for metal resources?

    Leader
    Probably has been talked multiple times but having Saladin not being the leader of the Ayyubid sultanate makes no sense. Maybe we should remove Ayyubid from Egypt dynamic names, the Ayyubids doesn't last very long compared to Fatimid or Mamluk dynasty.

    Great People Names
    Despite often said among the best Muslim figures after Muhammad, Umar and Uthman better suit as Great Statesman than a Great Prophet(theologian). Some good replacement candidates are:
    Abu Hurayrah (Muhammad's companion whose credited in over 5000 hadith)
    Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj (second most popular Hadith collector after Bukhari)
    Abu Hanifa (founder of the most followed Sunni school of law, the Hanafi)
    Al-Shafi'i (founder of Shafi'i school, probably second most followed after Hanafi)

    And, not trying to criticize the UHV but the Umayyad Caliphate controlled most of Iberia, Transoxiana, and even southern Pakistan and France in 750. I wonder if this is possible to do in-game. :undecide:
     
  10. LikeNothing

    LikeNothing Chieftain

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    Agree on all points.

    Re: Ghazis, there are other UUs which represent essentially volunteer/self-organized units, which therefore should have zero unit maintenance. Albion Legion is probably the best example. The Turkic UU and the second Mongol UU are also comparable in this regard to Ghazis. Minuteman is another (although I think they are overshadowed by Pioneers).

    Re: the speed of the Arab conquests, an easy solution is to give Arabia's starting units extra movement points. This can also apply to other civs with fast conquest goals, e.g. Columbia, Persia and Mongolia.
     
    WhiteEyes likes this.
  11. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    Or instead, trace a roman road along the coast of North Africa.
     
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  12. WhiteEyes

    WhiteEyes Chieftain

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    With some tweak (moving Moorish starting date, starting galley) and bit of luck, it's possible to conquer Marrakech and settle Spain before 711 just with the starting army(Epic speed). I even managed to conquer Madrid, Barcelona, and Marseille before 1000AD.

    About the Arabian UB, I just got another idea:
    Bimaristan/Dar al-Shifa, replaces Hospital
    Unlocked with Civil Service
    Much cheaper :hammers: cost, but only give 2:health:

    if those are not enough, additional effects could be
    10%:science: or +1 scientist slot (like SoI version of Bimaristan)
    Military Units starts with Medic promotion (might overlap with the Red Cross wonder though)

    The Abbassid Caliphate built the first public hospital in history. The hospitals not only functions for treating patients but also serve as medical school. Having a UB that unlocked far before its original version would be a cool idea, and we have no UB Hospital so far.

    By the way, I apologize if my writing isn't concise enough or hard to understand. Presenting my own ideas in a nonnative language is much harder than I thought :blush:
     

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