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Civilization 5 Rants Thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by ori, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. Jayman1000

    Jayman1000 Prince

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    Civ IV BTS offers so much varied gameplay, especially if you try to install different mods and scenarios. Or even if you would like to mod yourself... There is ingame worldbuilder that I myself have had sooo much fun with.

    The strength definitely lies in its many many possibilities for playing it differently.. it can get quite time consuming ;) Of course its graphics is becoming quite dated though it still looks nice I think.
     
  2. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

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    Majority opinion seems to be that Civ4 is the high point of the series. I agree, although it's far from perfect.

    I'd say it requires a little more time investment to shine and the game can be unforgiving. Fitting, as one design criterium was to reduce cookie cutter gameplay.
    A huge variety of playstyles are feasible even if seemingly basic ones can be hard to pull off (extremely fast expansion can mean skirting bankruptcy for a millenium... and still be worth it). Many parts of the game can be turned into the centerpiece of your gameplay... or ignored entirely (corporations, religions, espionage, tactical warfare, vassals and colonies, world wonders).
     
  3. aceflamingo23

    aceflamingo23 Chieftain

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    man don it annoy everyone when you just about to get a wonder, like 1 or 2 turns away, then someone else gets it? i mean its like they knew that you were building it and just decided to take it away from you i mean what up with that holmes?
     
  4. marx666

    marx666 Chieftain

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    I'm not used to being involved in wars all the time. seems the AI knows what you are up to and tries to put the nix on it by declaring war. Instead on focusing on getting the science victory I have to constantly shift gears and rev up my military.
     
  5. Gordon Brittas

    Gordon Brittas Blackadder's Half Brother

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    Is it too much too ask Firaxis to fix the England disembarkation bug? All this hullabaloo about the new patch and the expansion, yet they still haven't fixed a bug that's been there since day 1.
    Awful service. I guess that doesn't make them any money.
     
  6. Jayman1000

    Jayman1000 Prince

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    I don't know if this is the case for you, but the computer controlled civs will be wanting to build wonders too of course. Since the computer on higher difficulties cheats by getting extra bonuses to for example production, then they will be able to build that wonder a little faster than you, and you'll need to plan accordingly, prioritizing production in the city the wonder is build
     
  7. thadian

    thadian Kami of Awakened Dreamers

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    this thread is just a carpet to sweep away dis-satisfied customers by deleting their negative feedback and putting it in this ./dump to prevent complaints from being voiced.

    Civ4 and Civ4 Col had MUCH better mods and gameplay.

    However, i will give Civ5 one crowning jewel - i can mix and match mods without having to do a bunch of confusing, complicated work.
     
  8. Lyoncet

    Lyoncet Emperor

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    Wait, you mean to say that a thread that was explicitly created for people to rant and vent without providing constructive feedback (that's what the Ideas & Suggestions forum is for) isn't going to be scoured for advice by the developers? What an evil, insidious, diabolical scheme! For shame!

    Just a reminder from the OP:

    So... what's the problem again?
     
  9. Funky

    Funky Emperor

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    @Lyoncet: I recommend you actually read the thread before blurting out comments like that. I've read every page (over the last year) and this thread contains more meaningful constructive criticism than the rest of the Civ V forums together.
     
  10. Lyoncet

    Lyoncet Emperor

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    Read thread, not blurting. I was pointing out the reason this thread exists. It's stated on the front page in the first post. I'm not saying there's nothing worthwhile here; I said that the claim that this thread is some sort of conspiracy is silly, because it says in the OP that it's purpose is to create a space for people who want to voice vents and complaints that don't have enough creative potential to support a thread without getting locked. For those ideas that do offer good advice and constructive conversation, there's the New Topic button and the Ideas and Suggestions forum. That's a pretty significant difference from your illustration of my post, but at the same time I can see how my post could be misconstrued in that way. So I'll just chalk it up to a well-intended post and an unfortunate and honest misunderstanding. :)
     
  11. thadian

    thadian Kami of Awakened Dreamers

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    no, i mean whenever someone posts criticism that isn't boot-licking positive it gets merged into this to bury any complaints. it is the observer who decides if something is constructive or not, and the observers almost always choose that anything negative just gets tossed in this.
     
  12. Esoteric Arcane

    Esoteric Arcane Warlord

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    My rant, I dont expect anyone to read this, it will have things I love and things I hate about it, but it will incompass all the civs I have played (2-5, alpha centauri, civ 2 test of time, civ 2 call to power)

    Specialists

    I like what has been becoming of these, I am actually not that great of a micromanager, but since the easy civ 2 version of the three types, it has become quite devolped albiet I suck at using them efficently.

    Bomard ability

    I love it, and wish civ 4 kept the idea, glad to see it is back in CIV 5

    Policy vs Civic vs static government types

    The Policy was a decent Idea to circumvent the "we lose the prior ability of government if we had to change it", government in my opinion have two factors, evolving (policy type) vs revolutionary (all the other types) any governmental program should have a negative effect as well as a positive one, which is why I prefer the revolutionary type over the policy type, if there was a way to merge them both, I wouldnt mind trying that out, either case people will usually rush to get what they would use more often for their current needs. But due to a lack of negative effects albiet the you can only have this policy and not another at the time, isnt as negative as it could be, I dont know many that would pay the cost of a certain policy and than give it up when another policy became open, expecially due that it takes many hours to pay for a policy. The revolutionary system of governments also added a diplomatic aspect in CIV 4, which atleast added a kink in how you dealt with other AI's.

    Politics

    I love civ for its war game aspect, but I play it as if I really was trying to run a government in this game, usually peaceful til someone wanted to fight, not just to fight but for a reason, civ V lacks this, I wont go into depth as it is a known issue for the people who actually enjoy that style of play.

    Generalized Happiness

    This goes back to micromanaging an empire, however, it also added a quality to the game before CIV V, you had to make sure you individual cities were content on your empire, I did not mind the city flipping even when you could toggle it off after a conquest, i never did, because in real life, you can see that happening. A balance between the two I wouldnt mind seeing, but going to the extreme of, well this city is specilized in making everyone happy so your empire is happy regardless if the other towns hate you.

    Hex vs square tiles
    I prefer the square tiles, but I can live with hex, just seemed to me that it was just trying to please certain board gamers over regular civ players.

    1upt vs stack of doom
    I hate them both, almost equally, but I fear the 1upt is worse off due to the size of the game as well as the AI will NEVER understand it, no matter how much coding in place, it is exploitable as much as a stack of doom is. Collateral damage was a great concept and I wished it was developed more. More units you had stacked, the more damage incurred to all units in that stack. Killing off the whole pile was a bit extreme in the earlier civs as we all know as well. Bombarding units in defense, when a stack approached a free fire from the defense unit could of been incorporated as I have seen in one of the versions I have played but it only spread out the damage as opposed to actually causing more significant damge to having a lot of troops in the stack. Causing more damage to each unit due to having more units in stack would force players to divide the piles atleast to keep the damage lower. Also, however, this may not work for AI coding, having certian number of units per terrain type, each unit having a space cost depending on size and the terrain type, you can place more men than tanks in say a forest as opposed to a plain.

    Unique Units/Unique Abilities
    I never cared for this in any Civilization game, Master of Orion atleast put into negative effects for each positive to keep the civilization in balance to the others. However, having this feature always disrupted game balance since this game is built to be on a randomized map. Scenario play I can understand this aspect. My best suggestion would be to allow each empire to have a certain number of elite units. Your facing a horse loving empire, you can have up to 5 elite (unique ability) spearmen, you want to change over to having a unique ability archer, youll have to disband or promote one of your elite spearmen to open up a space. Unique Abilities, well, I can probably put this under a Policy under a civic type as stated before, your an island nation, you might have a use for that +1 to naval movement, but if I pick a nation that has that for default, I roll a landlocked area, Im stuck with a useless attribute.

    (Above feature including national politics)
    Without the default attributes, the AI starting next to horses are generically coded to wanting to become a mounted military nation, they would seek government policy types to push for better mounted units even elite units. AI governments knowing what access other nations have, can push for a way to circumvent that bonus. Same thing with gold/gem mines, a nation may go after policies that would increase trade for their nation, this would make nations more generic, but more immersive on what they were giving in the game. Like Civ 2, the name of the nation was defined by that game, not what they are in real life.

    AI personalities
    Overall up to civ 4, they were getting to be their own type of identity, I didnt mind so much about the religeon or particular civic they wanted you to have, but that is now thrown out with the streamlined version of civ V. With the above idea, depending on how they develope the lands they were given, atleast they would have more of an idea on what they would prefer you to have and not to have.

    Unit modification Dream Idea (will never expect this)
    An alternative to elite units or unique units, was the ability as in Master of Orion or Alpha Centauri, when you researched a technology, you can (rebuild) the tech onto an already built unit or prototype a new unit. I enjoyed this micromanaging part of the game as it also made units more deer to the user than just pumping out units for the sake of pure RPS, (i love rps style dont get me wrong) but it was a nice feature in those games.

    Trade network
    Call to power, you had lines of trading, civ 2, you actually had to build a unit and move them to make a trade link. An overlay of trading resources to see the paths of you and other nations (as it was never really a big secret of trade routes) in the game to effectively blockade or even steal the resource being traded. The game already has the feature of trade lines, but atleast having a way to make it visiable to allow a more effective strategy to controlling it. Possbily even addapting the steal a resource for your own use would be a dream idea. Enemy is trading Iron, you steal it for a turn, start building a unit, that material is now used up till that unit dies.

    More Ideas to come
    I just wanted to get this out of my system so I dont further rant on other peoples posts about certain aspects of the game. Ill have further rants I am sure, and Ill just place it here, to keep the place looking somewhat tidy. :)
     
  13. Buttercup

    Buttercup King

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    That's an interesting post Esoteric, but it's not by any means a rant, it's pure constructive criticism.

    The issue of One Unit Per Tile versus Stacks Of Doom is easily the biggest flaw/outrage with Civilisation 5 and one that makes me *Facepalm* into full RANT mode:

    From a 'Reality' point of view - One square (or Hexagon... *sigh*) represents really quite a LARGE portion of land, hundreds of square miles. The idea that all this space can cope with is one platoon of Spearmen is really quite insane. From Troy in pre-history to the battle for Stalingrad the 'reality' of war has been *vast* quantities of combined forces quite literally sitting at your city's front gates. Millions died in one day in one field complex during the first world war as the most extreme example. The implementation of One Unit Per Tile hasn't just destroyed any sense of reality, it's turned the game into a FANTASY akin to Warhammer or Dungeons and Dragons.

    From a 'practical' point of view - It's slowed the game down to a mind numbing crawl as you are forced to gradually squeeze your troops to the front-line as if they are somehow queueing for reduced handbags at Harrod's Department Store at the start of the January sales.

    From a 'fun' point of view - There's nothing, and I do mean *nothing* quite as satisfying as having a stack of 30 Units charge into your borders and then watch as you, in one turn, obliterate every single one of them. (For a 'reality' check on this, take the 1990s invasion of Iraq, this is precisely what happened, except it was the defending stacks who were obliterated almost overnight). Chugging gradually through squares (or hexagons... *sigh*) is more akin to the ancient art of... watching paint dry.

    Were players 'crying out' for One Unit Per Tile?... No.

    Was implementing this method somehow going to make everything else in the game run ten times smoother?... No.

    What exactly was the motivation for this change?... I have no idea, should I ever be stuck in a lift with the *deleted word* moron I shall endeavour to refrain from speaking to him/her for fear of dying from contagious retardation.

    I have no doubt there were some who called for a limit to stacks, I myself even thought 150 Units per stack was somewhat going a bit too far, but dropping to One Unit Per Tile is like shutting down the Stock Exchange and opening a Pawn Shop to replace it.

    There will be people who use the term 'better' to describe the One Unit Per Tile system. These will, unfortunately, be conmen of the lowest type. The phrase they actually need to use is 'different'. It's just a 'different' system. Or rather, a 'different game altogether'. Why on earth they chose to call it Civilisation is quite beyond me. Oh, wait, they're conmen aren't they, there must have been... financial... motivations to screwing over the auto-sales market of repeat custom purchasers...
     
  14. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Moderator Action: You're getting awfully close to falling afoul of the Public Discussion of Moderator Actions rule. If you have a problem with a moderator action, take it up with the moderator in question via PM.
     
  15. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    It should also be noted being able to rant about Civ5 without really offering any constructive input in a forum designed to discuss the game is a privilege not a right and consider it an awesome privilege to be able to deploy vile insults, backhanded compliments and blood curdling rhetoric against a game in a forum dedicted to said game. In most cases that could be classified as trolling or behavior needing moderation (ie: removal from the forum) . The rants thread exists as recognition a vocal and large minority did not or could not make the switch to Civ5 for various reasons.

    There was for example not a Civ4 rants thread, even though not everyone migrated to 4 with open arms. I beta tested it, liked it for what it was, but was pretty down on it due to the broken UN pop weighting/dom-lite and the cartoony graphics used until BTS and I finally reconciled with it and appreciated its polished state. In the interim I actually just withdrew back to Civ3 for several years and left Civ4 alone.

    The irony perhaps is that many years later, I get to rant about flaws in Civ4 whenever I have to defend Civ5 from unfair criticisms and insults from people who clearly haven't played a patched version of the game and those who hold 4 in such high esteem they can't see past their unwillingness to adapt.

    End Rant.
     
  16. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    For those that are Civ4 or Civ3 fanatics polluting a Civ5 forum, how would you like if there were a rants thread in your forums. But I applaud the moderators for consolidating such rants into one thread (most of the time).
     
  17. JanghanHong

    JanghanHong Enrico Trololo

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    Every single person in this thread will come back to CIV V after its 2nd expansion pack and final patching as the crown jewel of the franchise and then rant about the shallowness of CIV VI.

    Every single one of you.

    Moderator Action: This kinda amounts to, or comes close to, an attack on everyone who has ranted in this thread. i.e. everyone who has used this thread for its purpose. That constitutes trolling. It isn't going to produce any reaction but a negative one.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  18. geebo

    geebo Prince

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    +1

    5 Characters
     
  19. AfterShafter

    AfterShafter Deity

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    While I actually think you're right about some people, there still are a number of people who prefer Civ III to IV, and even a few SMAC holdouts. Some people will certainly change their tune, but, a lot won't. There's also the herd instinct factor. If you mildly to moderately dislike something and someone is crusading against about it the next block over, you're only a block away from joining the crusade. Negativity is infectious, and I know in my life I've convinced myself something is worse than it actually is because I'm surrounded by people who have a lot of time and energy to nurture their dislike of something.

    What many don't remember is that Civ IV was pretty widely accused of being more shallow, dumbed down, casualized, etc etc, upon its release - and it came a *long* way from vanilla to BTS. May not come quite as far - though it may - but, a comparison of early life cycle Civ V to late life cycle Civ IV isn't the most even comparison.
     
  20. geebo

    geebo Prince

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    At the moment I prefer Civ IV however I never reverted back to it. The only main issue I have with CIV is the AI, however I hope religion and the social policy influences will greatly benefit the artificial, lack of intelligence.
     

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