Civilization 5 Steamworks questions/concerns for inclusion in the FAQ

[Thoughtful Thug]

I think 2K need to hire White Elk as our liaison between us and them. Just my 2 cent there.

 

[12agnar0k]

I believe you can check a box to stop Steam sending out your personal Information.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I believe you can check a box to stop Steam sending out your personal Information.

See, there should be a check box to allow them to start sending out your personal information.

 

[ori]

you cannot though you can set it to offline mode in which case it will send any information it collects only when you go online next to download a patch or the like (which requires putting it into online mode).

Edit: typing too slowly. This was a reply to 12agnar0k - I didn't find any opt out box in the Steam client and I did look hard. You can suppress personally identifying information (email address) from the Steam forums - but nothing like a complete opt out for steam.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Yes, the optout box for the hardware survey is not an optout box for personally identifiable information. Besides, usually hardware info would not personally identify someone anyway, wouldn't it?

EDIT... Actually I think it's an opt-in box, but my point's the same.

 

[The_Coyote]

Besides, usually hardware info would not personally identify someone anyway, wouldn't it?

It will depend on the definition of "personally identify" - to get the real name should be quite hard - to identify your computer not too hard.

It´s perhaps similar to the IP - in most cases the IP doesn´t reveal your identitiy but it can be classified as personal information (like name, adress, etc). But atm the discussion - what kind information should be protected and what kind of information shouldn´t - can´t be seen as really completed.

But seemingly non personal information can be quite personal (means identify at least the PC, perhaps even the user itself) in some cases - some examples i´m aware is browser fingerprinting, or the article linked by isndl here. And of course even Valve itself claims that the hardware data collected to generate the CEG is unique for the PC.

When a user installs your game, the DRMS server collects information from the customer's computer that uniquely identifies it

(source)

but like said, it´s a question of the definition of "personally identify"

 

[lietkynes]

I believe the deluxe edition is once again available for everyone, is it not?

Yes but some of us ordered the standard one, because it was the only option at the time and we didnt even know that there was a deluxe edition.

So the questions are:
- is it possible to change our pre-order from standard to deluxe ?
- will the additional content that is included in deluxe edition be available as DLC for people who bought the standard edition ?

 

[Rebel44]

Yes but some of us ordered the standard one, because it was the only option at the time and we didnt even know that there was a deluxe edition.

So the questions are:
- is it possible to change our pre-order from standard to deluxe ?

This question is easy:

All you need to do is to create Support Ticket via Steam support where you request cancelation and refund of your current preorder. After your preorder is canceled and you get your money back you just order Deluxe edition.

 

[wolfigor]

Wolfigor, I understand the software companies are worried about pirates, but as pirates have got past DRM of all kinds, even Steam and Ubisoft always online system. So why waste their money on DRM development, it might make their software cheaper and more people might buy it, also as its been said, most people that buy pirate copies wouldn't have bought it anyway.

In my post I was kind of suggesting how 2K should have approached the issue of forcing Steam down the throat of their users: they did to impose an effective DRM, have higher profit, and take ownership of the community of their users.

I never said that I do support any form of intrusive DRM (I'm very much against them).
I do believe that the law should protect the rights of people more than the business of corporations.

 

[wolfigor]

It will depend on the definition of "personally identify" - to get the real name should be quite hard - to identify your computer not too hard.

It´s perhaps similar to the IP - in most cases the IP doesn´t reveal your identitiy but it can be classified as personal information (like name, adress, etc). But atm the discussion - what kind information should be protected and what kind of information shouldn´t - can´t be seen as really completed.

But seemingly non personal information can be quite personal (means identify at least the PC, perhaps even the user itself) in some cases - some examples i´m aware is browser fingerprinting, or the article linked by isndl here. And of course even Valve itself claims that the hardware data collected to generate the CEG is unique for the PC.

(source)

but like said, it´s a question of the definition of "personally identify"

At the end of the day once you sign-in to Steam you give them rights to collect information about you, and they have the right to collect even more information without notification.

Information is a value.
For example information about hardware is used for promotions of selling hardware: Steam make a gain selling information about their users.
It will be fair that the users have a a clause to completely opt-out or get a "piece of the pie" for the information they give to Steam.

 

[Senethro]

or get a "piece of the pie" for the information they give to Steam.

Do you want to try to put a value on how much you feel Valve owes you for your information?

 

[PieceOfMind]

Actually it would be quite clever of valve to reward you with "points" for opting into hardware surveys and other things they receive real value from, and that later with such accrued points you can spend them on or unlock something like the recent free Portal promotion. Reward the people who help you out.

This is exactly like the frequent shopper cards used in supermarkets and the like. You earn points that effectively amount to you having a discount in the long run, in return for the valuable marketing information you release.

People are much less likely to object to data collection if they're getting something out of it. For most people, including myself, the tired old line of "you're helping out the provider and so you get rewarded with either a cheaper product or a better quality product" doesn't satisfy, and honestly most of the time it doesn't work like that anyway.

 

[The_Coyote]

Do you want to try to put a value on how much you feel Valve owes you for your information?

0 < value of data < &#8734;

Without knowing what is done with the collected data and what kind of data is collected a more detailed guess is a bit hard.
_________________________________________
@ wolfigor

I like the idea to require an opt-in to every data (not only limited to PII) usage outside the context and purpose the data is collected.

 

[Nick Danger]

I am so damn tired of this hippy "just a worker bee" crap. Greg has a "gamer" responsibility NOT to be a corporate peon mouthpiece. Firaxis has a responsibility to communicate promptly and effectively with loyal customers.

As I said many many times before, 2kE & G have a responsibility to be more upfront with the fact they are advertisers 2000 miles away from the developers and for all intents and purposes working for different companies.

If any of you - and I'm looking right at you Peice - backed me up at at the very beginning we might have an actual rep instead of the NOTHING we have now.

Greg's responsibility is to the folks who sign his paycheck, and anyone who depends on him for their food/housing/clothing/etc.

You need to work on your 'identify friend or foe' skill. You can't win a battle when you misidentify your 'foe'.

Aim your ire at those responsible for what you dislike, not the messenger who's just trying to make a living.

Your approach only alienates and causes folks to tune you out. Your approach may be cathartic for you, but it hurts not helps your cause.

And put things in perspective -- it's just a game. If you don't like forced steam, let them know and don't buy the game. The sun will still rise tomorrow.

If you want to get worked up about something there's plenty of real issues out there that merit your time and attention.

 

[Nick Danger]

...I would have much more appreciated a more honest approach, something like:
"hey guys, I understand you may not like Steam but look at the alternatives.
We cannot ship without DRM, too many pirates out of there [quote some nice stat about it].
CD check and serial numbers are too week to really protect us.
All other form of DRM are far too intrusive and evil for our end users.
At the time being Steam is the best compromise between protecting our software and limiting the annoyance for our users.
At the same time Steam offers a lot of goodies [bla... bla... bla...]"

A statement with such a content would have placated most of the users complaining about Steam.
Obviously they should have been ready to answer correctly to all other questions about limitations of Steam when comes to offline gaming and ownership of the game itself....

Agreed.

I prefer an ugly truth (like what you suggest) to the pretty BS PR statement "...players will enjoy the benefits of the Steamworks' features..." followed by smoke being blown up my keister and silence and delays in getting simple questions answered.

It's a simple choice:
-tell the ugly truth, which is respectful to the 'adults' (who understand the reality behind the decision), knowing the 'kids' (who don't understand) will cry&moan

or

-spout PR BS, which disrespectful to the 'adults' (who see through it and don't appreciate being treated as if we're idjits), knowing the 'kids' will be placated.

If only we were Kings of the Games Forest, eh wolfigor?

 

[Senethro]

What was the last PR campaign to say "Hey, our stuffs pretty OK. Now I know that seems extreme but let me qualify that,"

Entities act in their own best interest. Why are people surprised?

 

[jaythewise]

I find the amount of venom against steam to be pretty silly. The only real arguement I can see against Valve is if they close shop for some reason, one would lose the games they have purchased. Now, I could take this seriously 5 years ago when valve was not such a success.

I dunno, here's some interesting reading:
http://kokugamer.com/2010/07/07/the-steam-effect/

It is amazing how vocal people can be on a forum about what I feel is a pretty silly arguement... I mean would you rather have settlers 7 style DRM? THAT is unacceptable. Steam is an excellent choice. The vast, VAST majority of people I would think agree with me:

http://digg.com/pc_games/The_Steam_Effect

 

[The_J]

It is amazing how vocal people can be on a forum about what I feel is a pretty silly arguement... I mean would you rather have settlers 7 style DRM? THAT is unacceptable. Steam is an excellent choice.

You should better ask, how establishing Ubi-DRM could have even happened, and you'll see, that Steam has been a step to it.

In a few years the people will then tell me: Do you really want XY style DRM? This is unacceptable, Ubi-DRM is compared to it quite excellent.

 

[Senethro]

You should better ask, how establishing Ubi-DRM could have even happened, and you'll see, that Steam has been a step to it.

In a few years the people will then tell me: Do you really want XY style DRM? This is unacceptable, Ubi-DRM is compared to it quite excellent.

Which is why we should support Steam. Its good enough for most customers and good enough for most publishers that they aren't tempted to go for the more extreme DRMs available.

 

[evrett37]

South Korean law requires internet communities with over 100k users to provide public real life name and information. Does steam do business in South Korea or any other country that would require it to publish user information?