Civilization 5
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EmperorFool
Deity
BTS has Privateers. I think they were added in the Warlords expansion if they aren't in Vanilla.
Soda7777777
Warlord
In civ3 the privateer was a kinda wimpy unit. If they do bring it back they should make it stronger and actually be able to hold up against a frigate.
EmperorFool
Deity
The Privateer has 6
compared to the Frigate's 8. You can use them to blockade rival cities for 
. If they were stronger than Frigates, it would be make them unbalanced in my opinion.Ok Im waaaay too lazy to re read this thread to see if it has been mentioned, so I apologize if it has already been mentioned/beaten to death. I have an idea Id love to work into the next Civ regarding religions. Id mod it into the game myself if I had any idea how to do any such thing. Here goes:
On one of the pages of the vanilla instruction manual pages it says something about them being game makers, not theologians as the reason they make all religions the same--everything is a temple or monastery, all bonuses are the same, etc. Frankly, they should at least make an option in custom game settings for what I call "weighted religions" This is how Id do it:
Leave the same 7 religions in the game--Hindu Buddhist Jewish Catholic Tao Confucion and Islam. But instead of "all else being equal", give each religion some added bonus IF YOU FOUND, ADOPT AND KEEP the religion. To whit: When I think of Hinduism for better or worse, I think of "Sacred Cow" So what if you roll a start, and see one or more cow resources very nearby? Maybe you can get some other bonus on top of what the tile normally gives IF YOU FOUND AND ADOPT Hinduism. Perhaps two more happy , or an additional commerce as a bonus.
For Buddhism? I think "buddhist monastaries" So maybe your monasteries earn %15-20 research bonus instead of 10. Or maybe the bonus doesnt disappear with SciMeth.
Judaism? I think Bar Mitzvahs. So why not add some bonus research to a library, or an additional scientist specialist?
Catholic? Easy. I think of the charismatic televangelists. Why not give a Charismatic leader some sort of commerce bonus for cottages? maybe +1 or 2 commerce on a Town.
Islam? Islamic Fundamentalists anyone? How about an Aggresive leader gets C1 AND C2 promos, and/or, say, free upgrades, or break on unit maintenance for 25 units?
Now Ill stop there, as the idea is rather apparent, PLUS I really dont know enough about/have any initial thoughts of Confucionism or Taoism to give a possible bonus. But heres the rub, before people scream about the religions being overpowered. Remember the OTHER thing it does. To get the bonus, you need to found, adopt, and maintain (!!) the religion. How fun is it going to be when you have to decide between a nice bonus for being Hindu, and the Buddhist bloc forming to your east, with such illuminaries as Monty, and Shaka present.. It makes being the lone religion in a world of religions a tad more difficult. Imagine the bloodshed on a large pangaea. And it now makes an early religion a more viable early game strategy, something most higher level players recommend you eschew in favor of economic/military techs. And now you might have a real reason to research, or even beeline to Divine Right. Its normally a dead end tech, but how valuable does it become in the hands of a mid-late game war monger who managed to stay away from all state religions to that point? I think overall it adds another strategy layer to a game already teeming with strategies.
Thoughts?
On one of the pages of the vanilla instruction manual pages it says something about them being game makers, not theologians as the reason they make all religions the same--everything is a temple or monastery, all bonuses are the same, etc. Frankly, they should at least make an option in custom game settings for what I call "weighted religions" This is how Id do it:
Leave the same 7 religions in the game--Hindu Buddhist Jewish Catholic Tao Confucion and Islam. But instead of "all else being equal", give each religion some added bonus IF YOU FOUND, ADOPT AND KEEP the religion. To whit: When I think of Hinduism for better or worse, I think of "Sacred Cow" So what if you roll a start, and see one or more cow resources very nearby? Maybe you can get some other bonus on top of what the tile normally gives IF YOU FOUND AND ADOPT Hinduism. Perhaps two more happy , or an additional commerce as a bonus.
For Buddhism? I think "buddhist monastaries" So maybe your monasteries earn %15-20 research bonus instead of 10. Or maybe the bonus doesnt disappear with SciMeth.
Judaism? I think Bar Mitzvahs. So why not add some bonus research to a library, or an additional scientist specialist?
Catholic? Easy. I think of the charismatic televangelists. Why not give a Charismatic leader some sort of commerce bonus for cottages? maybe +1 or 2 commerce on a Town.
Islam? Islamic Fundamentalists anyone? How about an Aggresive leader gets C1 AND C2 promos, and/or, say, free upgrades, or break on unit maintenance for 25 units?
Now Ill stop there, as the idea is rather apparent, PLUS I really dont know enough about/have any initial thoughts of Confucionism or Taoism to give a possible bonus. But heres the rub, before people scream about the religions being overpowered. Remember the OTHER thing it does. To get the bonus, you need to found, adopt, and maintain (!!) the religion. How fun is it going to be when you have to decide between a nice bonus for being Hindu, and the Buddhist bloc forming to your east, with such illuminaries as Monty, and Shaka present.. It makes being the lone religion in a world of religions a tad more difficult. Imagine the bloodshed on a large pangaea. And it now makes an early religion a more viable early game strategy, something most higher level players recommend you eschew in favor of economic/military techs. And now you might have a real reason to research, or even beeline to Divine Right. Its normally a dead end tech, but how valuable does it become in the hands of a mid-late game war monger who managed to stay away from all state religions to that point? I think overall it adds another strategy layer to a game already teeming with strategies.
Thoughts?
EmperorFool
Deity
Would Temples, Monasteries, Cathedrals and Shrines make sense for Atheism? How about Missionaries?
phungus420
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 6,296
Atheism isn't a belief in the non existence of the supernatural, that is known as anti-theism. Atheism is a lack of theistic belief (not the opposition thereof), simply put an atheist does not consider the supernatural a rational realm of speculation; the supernatural by definition cannot be observed, or inferred through experience as such it is irrelevant. In such a view it is non sensical to view atheism as a religion. I'll use specifics to illustrate. To a Catholic Christian, the Pagan Greek religions are false, as they contradict their faith, and vice versa. However to an atheist, these two faiths are simply not worthy of consideration, as they are outside the scope of observation, the atheist doesn't consider these two beliefs wrong, they simply aren't relevant. There are some "hardcore atheists" who insist others should give up their faith, but such anti religious prosylatizing is rare (how many times have you seen an atheist knocking on peoples doors trying to "convert" the faithful?), and in nearly all cases such behavior from non believers is in response to prosylatizing by someone of faith. Also interestingly enough there are anti-theistic doctrins such as exist in China, whereby members of the party must renounce religion in order to be assured party membership (and thus be able to climb socio-economic ladders), but this is not atheism, as atheism is merely the absence of theism (by definition), this is anti-theism and is a doctrine required by the state in order to assure loyalty to the state above church doctrines.
I think atheism is well represented through the presence of no religion in a city, although some may be offended by the seeming similarity portrayed of paganism and atheism. Perhaps atheism could be instituted alongside 'no religion'. I don't know what the specifics of it would be, but it does make sense to include it, it would seem.
the-french
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2009
- Messages
- 1
The designers are trying to get the towns specialized.
I will suggest some ideas to you about specialization.
First the designers should implement the concept of "size of buildings". For instance the player could choose to invest in a tiny/small/medium/large/marvelous theâter (harbour, granary, library, lighthouse........).
Those size should be linked to technologies. Building a tiny/small theâter would require only theâter technology, a medium theater would require the further printing and education technologies, a large 'd require extra music and literatur and a marvelous maybe a famous character. So it would enforce the "come out of the blue" point of the Wonders. Because it is wearisome always to build the same Wonders with the same abilities, the improvement could enable the player to create it own Wonder, and the ability of the Wonder could be in the image of the town it was created, or more simply, it could be chosen between several optionnal Wonders.
The games would be really unique and the famous characters would become really important in passing (in passing because it's not the real point I want to be improved, it's just an outcome of the idea).
The tiny/small/medium/large/marvelous theâters would provide increasing (in the order) abilities and disadvantages, however their cost would be exponential following their size and could paralyse productivness.
Instances of abilities and disavantages of the theâters :
For a normal-advanced civilization (1500/1600)
A tiny/ small theâter would be beneficial for a well-defended town because Farces, slapstick comedies entertains those soldiers. However a tiny/small theâter could a little act as a brake on expansion of reshearch because living in a rude atmospher of farce and jokes doesn't really get people more intelligent.
medium/large/marvelous theâters could improve increasingly (in order) reshearch, thanks to the quality of literatur. However it would be disadvantages for an army for which thinking can bring to some disastrous consequence, especially in times of fascmn or other monarchy.
For a really advanced civilization (2000....further), tiny/small theâters could severely acts as a brake on expansion of reshearch and would bring hapiness to people but no efficiency to the army (jokes does not learn sense of method or responsability to soldiers as marins).
Medium theaters would be the best for an army and could provide it some experience, maybe powerful points.
Whereas large and marvellous theaters would really be beneficial for reshearsh.
The principle would apply for all the buildings, creating specilization in military towns!
For example a town could create an huge FORGE and would create HUGE cannons, maybe twice more powerful that cannons created in a small forge. Imagine a 50 meters cannon against a 2 meter cannon, because different forges have created the cannons!
Afterwards I wish some military tactics. I wish that "micro-running" disapear about plundering or farm destruction in towns. I wish the option "besiege the town". The plundering and the farm destruction would be automatically set going. In addition, I wish the building of city ramparts become adjustable.
Cities could invests in high, thick, solidy-built and would be well-defended but it would require some natural ressources. Cites could build very long ramparts and could save their economy during a siege, and soldiers could keep defending the place for a long time. But it would cost a lot a productivity. Defending-time a siege would be mentionned somewhere with the information about cities.
So if you hope to win against a long-term-siege city civilization, you will have to besiege all the towns at the same time. You will be not compelled to do this against short-term-siege towns because your army can kill reinforcements from other cities and besiege the town because it will not resist for a long time.
Excuse my speaking, me French.
I will suggest some ideas to you about specialization.
First the designers should implement the concept of "size of buildings". For instance the player could choose to invest in a tiny/small/medium/large/marvelous theâter (harbour, granary, library, lighthouse........).
Those size should be linked to technologies. Building a tiny/small theâter would require only theâter technology, a medium theater would require the further printing and education technologies, a large 'd require extra music and literatur and a marvelous maybe a famous character. So it would enforce the "come out of the blue" point of the Wonders. Because it is wearisome always to build the same Wonders with the same abilities, the improvement could enable the player to create it own Wonder, and the ability of the Wonder could be in the image of the town it was created, or more simply, it could be chosen between several optionnal Wonders.
The games would be really unique and the famous characters would become really important in passing (in passing because it's not the real point I want to be improved, it's just an outcome of the idea).
The tiny/small/medium/large/marvelous theâters would provide increasing (in the order) abilities and disadvantages, however their cost would be exponential following their size and could paralyse productivness.
Instances of abilities and disavantages of the theâters :
For a normal-advanced civilization (1500/1600)
A tiny/ small theâter would be beneficial for a well-defended town because Farces, slapstick comedies entertains those soldiers. However a tiny/small theâter could a little act as a brake on expansion of reshearch because living in a rude atmospher of farce and jokes doesn't really get people more intelligent.
medium/large/marvelous theâters could improve increasingly (in order) reshearch, thanks to the quality of literatur. However it would be disadvantages for an army for which thinking can bring to some disastrous consequence, especially in times of fascmn or other monarchy.
For a really advanced civilization (2000....further), tiny/small theâters could severely acts as a brake on expansion of reshearch and would bring hapiness to people but no efficiency to the army (jokes does not learn sense of method or responsability to soldiers as marins).
Medium theaters would be the best for an army and could provide it some experience, maybe powerful points.
Whereas large and marvellous theaters would really be beneficial for reshearsh.
The principle would apply for all the buildings, creating specilization in military towns!
For example a town could create an huge FORGE and would create HUGE cannons, maybe twice more powerful that cannons created in a small forge. Imagine a 50 meters cannon against a 2 meter cannon, because different forges have created the cannons!
Afterwards I wish some military tactics. I wish that "micro-running" disapear about plundering or farm destruction in towns. I wish the option "besiege the town". The plundering and the farm destruction would be automatically set going. In addition, I wish the building of city ramparts become adjustable.
Cities could invests in high, thick, solidy-built and would be well-defended but it would require some natural ressources. Cites could build very long ramparts and could save their economy during a siege, and soldiers could keep defending the place for a long time. But it would cost a lot a productivity. Defending-time a siege would be mentionned somewhere with the information about cities.
So if you hope to win against a long-term-siege city civilization, you will have to besiege all the towns at the same time. You will be not compelled to do this against short-term-siege towns because your army can kill reinforcements from other cities and besiege the town because it will not resist for a long time.
Excuse my speaking, me French.
jsweeney
American
Mainly, there are several things in the game that bother the heck out of me.
1. All nations start at 4000 bc What is up with that? I would like a system similar to rhyes but like how bout this: three civs start off geographically close to each other, then civilizations start to spread out in all directions and cover the landscape. there can be an option to play as the starting nations or you can set a year or turn that you want to jump into the game and your civ that you choose starts there.
2. Past moves don't hurt you I feel like you could do something in 100 AD and then in 2000 AD that is completly forgotten. good or bad, your decisions should be important the entire game. like if you have slavery since bronze working or serfdom since fuedalism, and you just change to emancipation with democracy, the lack of complete and utter chaos expect for a few turns of anarchy is quite unrealistic. there should be major consequences for changing civics.
3. The term Empire gets old If the US today started calling itself the American Empire or if Russia calls itself the Russian Empire, there would be serious distate towards those nations. I like how revolutions mod does it and that should be implemented in the whole game.
4. Cold wars Played a huge part in history. im not just talking about the soviet-american cold war im talking about everytime in history when two nations on the same playing field enter tight diplomatic tensions.
5. Religion is weak It doesn't take a genius to understand that most of the conflicts today are caused by religion. You can say its because of resources but the reason why the resources are locked up if you will is because of prophets hundreds of years ago. Take the middle east, which is easily the worlds largest religion base and where the most religious conflict has occured. Its history is mostly shaped by religions duking it out.
So yeah, i want to see something more dynamic in a game
1. All nations start at 4000 bc What is up with that? I would like a system similar to rhyes but like how bout this: three civs start off geographically close to each other, then civilizations start to spread out in all directions and cover the landscape. there can be an option to play as the starting nations or you can set a year or turn that you want to jump into the game and your civ that you choose starts there.
2. Past moves don't hurt you I feel like you could do something in 100 AD and then in 2000 AD that is completly forgotten. good or bad, your decisions should be important the entire game. like if you have slavery since bronze working or serfdom since fuedalism, and you just change to emancipation with democracy, the lack of complete and utter chaos expect for a few turns of anarchy is quite unrealistic. there should be major consequences for changing civics.
3. The term Empire gets old If the US today started calling itself the American Empire or if Russia calls itself the Russian Empire, there would be serious distate towards those nations. I like how revolutions mod does it and that should be implemented in the whole game.
4. Cold wars Played a huge part in history. im not just talking about the soviet-american cold war im talking about everytime in history when two nations on the same playing field enter tight diplomatic tensions.
5. Religion is weak It doesn't take a genius to understand that most of the conflicts today are caused by religion. You can say its because of resources but the reason why the resources are locked up if you will is because of prophets hundreds of years ago. Take the middle east, which is easily the worlds largest religion base and where the most religious conflict has occured. Its history is mostly shaped by religions duking it out.
So yeah, i want to see something more dynamic in a game
Gamemaster77
PC > Mac
The reason they don't put in relegious bonusus is they don't want anything in the headlines like...
...2K Games puts down Christianity...Makers of Civ5 praise Judaism but no other religions
However I do support Religious units like "Christian Crusaders" or "Judith Monks"
There should all have the same strength but maybe have a bonus when fighting against a religion you don't have in your civ and vice versa.
...2K Games puts down Christianity...Makers of Civ5 praise Judaism but no other religions
However I do support Religious units like "Christian Crusaders" or "Judith Monks"
There should all have the same strength but maybe have a bonus when fighting against a religion you don't have in your civ and vice versa.
But this is sort of my point. They already dont do religion justice. Catholics dont go to temple to worship, Muslims CERTAINLY dont go to temple to worship. Temples are Jewish. Churches and Mosques would be more correct for Christianity and Islam. Its time we end this secular-progressive nonsense in a GAME, for cripes sake. Besides, they seem to have no problem with "Global Warming Striking Near..." Why pander to one "issue" and not another. If anything, they could be accused of dismissing ALL religion out of hand the way it works now:
"Sheesh, ok ok ok we 'should' have 'SOME' religious aspect to the game. There are actually some people out there who believe in "God" *snicker*....what to do, what to do....fuggit...just make all things temples and monasteries, and, ya know, whatever...." No thought, no creativity, just a soulless, bloodless attempt at throwing those who dare to believe a bone. The whole thing reeks of self righteousness, the more I think about it. For the record, Im no religious zealot at all, not even close, but the fact is religion plays a major part in many people's life. And they arent all the same. Different buildings, beliefs, etc etc etc...why put religion in a cookie cutter and make them the same? Its dismissive at best, and boring at worst. The Sky-Is-Falling Crowd gets its just desserts with the whole Global Warming myth, why the lack of the same respecet for religion? My bonus idea doesnt place one over another so much, just makes them....Different
Sorta like how it is. 
Rant off 
Now, as for this whole Global Warming "striking" business
Bah, dont get me started 
Anyhow, I think an already rich game only gets richer with religions having their own personality, so to speak.Peace.
no it shouldnt. what r u going to do build a temple to celeibraite athiastism! and there should be some unit for the religion or something. like the crusaders for christianty, idk about others though lol
Soda7777777
Warlord
Just one little thing, it's spelled Atheist, Atheism. But on the subject of religion there should be benefits, as well as more religion. But for example Judaism should have a scholarly benefit, while Confucianism should have the benefit have your government being more productive.
It's an attempt at uniformity. You can't really call it a type of discrimination, or anything, just because it may not exactly apply to all of the religions, although it is a close approximation to it.
______________
In general, I think it's about time I put it in big bold letters:
Religious differentiation will not happen. It would invariably be viewed as prejudiced towards one religion or another, and would therefore be bad press and correspondingly bad for sales.
It is this sort of crap (I'm sorry, I have no other word for it) that is the reason why it will never be a part of the game. You get some people with wildly innaccurate views as to other religions who would invariably either disagree with how they are presented in the game, or would actually represent them badly in the game.
As for global warming, that is a completely different kettle of fish. Not only is it an entirely different class of 'phenomena' (it is fact, not belief), but it not something that does not discriminate, as you are suggesting religion in the game should.
On the whole religion thing - i think theres a reason it's not going to happen nad that is the fact that the programmers may not fully understand the cultural sensitivity of the whole thing - or that they may wrongly stereotype religions, i know it's only a game BUT we are talking of religion ....
Look i can even point out a couple of things from what LcOiVvE has said,
Hinduism & cows --- just not right mate, i mean they consider cows as sacred but thats like saying christianity should get a bonus from Turkey's cos they have it for x mas or something ...
Even worse, Islam & fundementalism --- ??? dude what are you thinking? you do this and you are suggesting that muslims in general are fundementalist / aggresive ppl - not true. ---- how do i know ..... i'm a muslim & i live in asia (sri lanka), theres a lot of muslims around the world who are just normal ppl (maybe playing CIV IV just like in this case)
Anyways, my point is, LC probably doe'snt realise this cos, he sees it from his point of view, from where he lives, so the developers would never want to be guilty of making a similair mistake.
So unless this can be done very carefully & thoughtfully it's a no go area --- one that i dont think the game developers will go into.
Look i can even point out a couple of things from what LcOiVvE has said,
Hinduism & cows --- just not right mate, i mean they consider cows as sacred but thats like saying christianity should get a bonus from Turkey's cos they have it for x mas or something ...
Even worse, Islam & fundementalism --- ??? dude what are you thinking? you do this and you are suggesting that muslims in general are fundementalist / aggresive ppl - not true. ---- how do i know ..... i'm a muslim & i live in asia (sri lanka), theres a lot of muslims around the world who are just normal ppl (maybe playing CIV IV just like in this case
)Anyways, my point is, LC probably doe'snt realise this cos, he sees it from his point of view, from where he lives, so the developers would never want to be guilty of making a similair mistake.
So unless this can be done very carefully & thoughtfully it's a no go area --- one that i dont think the game developers will go into.
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