Civilization elimination thread

[GAGA Extrem]

Yes the top 10 in general look very solid, in particular, if I were going on strength alone I think I'd have the exact same top 7 (in a different order tho ). However, I'm still unconvinced by the Netherlands and still not sure how to play them. Is most of it hanging off the sea beggar? I'm prepared to be swayed by any convincing arguments .

The Netherlands can use the early luxury sale to quickly expand AND stay at +/-0 happiness. Quite good when playing 4 city tradition. Another option with their UA is to get wide and grab mercantilism, so you will retain +4 happiness from ressources you sold.

The sea beggar is a very powerful naval unit - and considering it can capture cities, you can easily domiante an ocean map with it.

The Polder has great improvement benefits, but is (unfortunately) very limited by terrain. However, IF you manage to get a city near floodplains, you can have amazing tile efficiency. Add Petra for extra LULZ.

Btw, I woudn't have expected the Netherlands in the top 10 either. Them being in the #10 and Austria being kicked out so early are two things that really surprised me, actually.

 

[Rooftrellen]

Yes the top 10 in general look very solid, in particular, if I were going on strength alone I think I'd have the exact same top 7 (in a different order tho ). However, I'm still unconvinced by the Netherlands and still not sure how to play them. Is most of it hanging off the sea beggar? I'm prepared to be swayed by any convincing arguments .

You wouldn't say Austria is at least top 7 in strength?

Keeping in mind people voted on different things, and for myself it was mostly on the fun factor, I'd say the Netherlands has a few things going for it.

The Sea Begger has 2 bonuses over the normal Privateer, and 1 of them means it doesn't have to go back to your boarders to heal, making fighting on the other side of the ocean more practical and engaging sooner.

The polder....there's simply nothing else like it. It's unique in every sense of the word.

Finally, their music when the game starts might be the best in the game (of the starting musics, overall there are some better I'd say). If Carthage weren't my seafaring civ of choice, I might have given them an upvote just for that alone.

 

[theguy8882]

I'm sad babylon didn't win. Oh well Korea's pretty good. Also I have no idea why i copied and pasted a very old post so I could have actually made a difference.

 

[Tabarnak]

Already over? What? Babylon? Cool!

I'm glad they won. Tech whoring in the beginning is priceless.

Edit :Hmm...not at all!#$%

Korea 1st? What the...well ok. I guess people prefer them over Babs. Haven't played Incas enough to make a good conclusion but i heard very good things about them.

Is it because players usually like to turtle instead of rushing a class/med. tech for huge domination games?

 

[DGDobrev]

Actually Babylon came in 3rd. Korea won - which I thoroughly expected. Korea is great for almost everything - Babylon is pretty much a rush-civ - bowman rush, science rush, PT rush...

 

[Tabarnak]

Babylon is pretty much a rush-civ - bowman rush, science rush, PT rush...

Isn't the strongest way to play a civ game?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Isn't the strongest way to play a civ game?

That depends on your goals.

 

[Dogmouth]

Is it because players usually like to turtle instead of rushing a class/med. tech for huge domination games?

Not to speak for others, but as an Inca afficionado, I don't turtle at all. High production and the ability to move on to hills and fire ranged weapons in the same turn makes for solid compound bow and/or xbow conquest. Upgraded slingers also retain their withdrawal promotion, which can help if you're hit with horseman or knights.

A lot of the Korea players probably also go on mad conquest binges with hwachas, although that's likely to change in the near future -- I hope .

 

[Koiranputki]

The Netherlands can use the early luxury sale to quickly expand AND stay at +/-0 happiness. Quite good when playing 4 city tradition. Another option with their UA is to get wide and grab mercantilism, so you will retain +4 happiness from ressources you sold.

The sea beggar is a very powerful naval unit - and considering it can capture cities, you can easily domiante an ocean map with it.

The Polder has great improvement benefits, but is (unfortunately) very limited by terrain. However, IF you manage to get a city near floodplains, you can have amazing tile efficiency. Add Petra for extra LULZ.

Btw, I woudn't have expected the Netherlands in the top 10 either. Them being in the #10 and Austria being kicked out so early are two things that really surprised me, actually.

I quite like playing as the Netherlands...and there does seem to be a starting bias that will, at least in some of the games I've played, place you at, or very close to, flood plains.... and good "Petra" country. In one memorable game after I conquered nearby Askai I even had a bunch of marsh hexes to "Polderize"...

I've also noticed when William is an opponent, it isn't unusual for him to be in flood plain country....

The Sea Beggar is great too...in the same game I gave Maria a lot of grief with several Sea Beggars and a bunch of Frigates...and after I captured the first coastal city, healing the Frigates wasn't a problem either.... I couldn't get at inland Vienna, though...I could only take single potshots per turn from one ocean tile....just not enough action to bring down the city...

 

[SammyKhalifa]

The only time I played Netherlands I had a bunch of swamps nearby . . . I thought it always happened that way but judging by what I'm reading here I guess I just got lucky . . .

 

[Gucumatz]

Well I didn't expect Arabia not to make the final 3 to be frank. But not surprised with the final 2 Korea and Inca. Korea is an amazing civ for sure - Turtle Ships in GK being the battering rams of the sea, the Hwacha bug crushing anything in its path, extra science and free RA boosts, all around a great civ. I admit am slightly dissapointed not to see Arabia/Inca as the #1

 

[PhilBowles]

Already over? What? Babylon? Cool!

I'm glad they won. Tech whoring in the beginning is priceless.

Edit :Hmm...not at all!#$%

Korea 1st? What the...well ok. I guess people prefer them over Babs. Haven't played Incas enough to make a good conclusion but i heard very good things about them.

Is it because players usually like to turtle instead of rushing a class/med. tech for huge domination games?

Ultimately I think it's because when faced with three powerful choices, whether or not you actually enjoy playing them becomes a big factor - a lot of the final downvotes for Babylon gave as their justification how boring the civ is to play for most people. When it came down to a choice between the two science leaders, better tall science from Babylon was perceived as being less important than Korean character - more varied options for specialist play, truly unique UUs, and simply a more flexible style.

 

[pensivepeppers]

Not to speak for others, but as an Inca afficionado, I don't turtle at all. High production and the ability to move on to hills and fire ranged weapons in the same turn makes for solid compound bow and/or xbow conquest. Upgraded slingers also retain their withdrawal promotion, which can help if you're hit with horseman or knights.

A lot of the Korea players probably also go on mad conquest binges with hwachas, although that's likely to change in the near future -- I hope .

Is that a wink or a seizure

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Well, let us look at it that way:
If they make it a DLC CIV that costs 5$, it better shouldn't suck.
...so, how many DLC CIVs are in the top 10? top 5?

Is that a wink or a seizure

Probably a twitch, considering that you can 2-shot any city with upgraded H'wachas.

 

[Dogmouth]

Yup, it's a twitch. Hwachas are absurdly broken now.

 

[Tachii]

So technically without DLC China would have been the top civ. Booyah. I'm still happy.

 

[DGDobrev]

Honestly, I never understood what people found boring in Babylon. For me, boring means just waiting for the "please wait" to change into a "Next turn" button. Babylon is all about early warfare, optimizing efficiency, attentively selecting every single tile to work in order for it to fit my strategy, using specialists only when necessary and carefully selecting the important projects, as well as trying to time things perfectly.

However, to each one his own I actually find most of the mid to late game warfare boring, as there is little fun in beating down an enemy which is an era behind you. Not to mention that once you start fighting for real, you better keep on fighting - and this means destroy your happiness level. No happiness = no extra beakers...

 

[PhilBowles]

Honestly, I never understood what people found boring in Babylon. For me, boring means just waiting for the "please wait" to change into a "Next turn" button. Babylon is all about early warfare, optimizing efficiency, attentively selecting every single tile to work in order for it to fit my strategy, using specialists only when necessary and carefully selecting the important projects

Which is exactly it - Babylon's "all about" playing in the exact same way every time. There's only one way to optimise efficiency with Babylon (which is why it is, indeed, optimal), and it's not very dependent on context. And with an essentially fixed build order, you know going in exactly which turns are the ones to assign specialists and when you want to start work on each project. It has all the fun of playing to a Starcraft recipe build order, with a predetermined strategy rather than your own, and the game not simply being a question of clicking "Next Turn", but doing so every turn until you get to the next turn your build order requires you to do something.

 

[DGDobrev]

On the other hand, we have only 5 victory conditions. Each victory condition also requires a similar playstyle in each playthrough, regardless of the civilization. Culture victory is all about growing tall, building wonders and selecting Piety + Freedom, Domination is all about getting the units to defeat the enemy and sneak-attacking them from the FOW so that they don't see you coming, Science is all about NC, RA's and Rationalism and Diplomatic is all about beelining to Globalization and getting the necessary votes.

This also doesn't leave much room for wicked tactic changes and wondrous creativity, does it?

 

[Buccaneer]

Let's see, I've won a technology game, a domination and a diplomacy game with Babylon (the only one that I had played 3 times). What's so boring about that?