Civilization: Game vs. History

[Zaarin]

Tokimune wasn't exactly a Jpop idol IRL.

He's way too masculine to be a J-pop idol. But yeah, they definitely went for the "handsome Japanese drama actor" look.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

She was born around 595 AD or 610 AD and thus became queen (632 AD) when she was anywhere between 22 and 38 years old, so her in-game appearance age-wise looks on point to me (also, we Asians age slowly; my dad looked mostly the same at 50 as he did at 40, and at 30 he looked only slightly older than he did at 20). Some sources seem to say she was born in 606 AD, but in any event she was not 60 when she began her rule, but far younger. She died before her 60s from health issues, in 647 AD (she ran into unspecified health issues earlier in her reign, and then again near her death).

yeah... my mistake on translating it. 61 was actually age of her DAD when he died. it said she was actually in 40's.... she wasn't aged 20's or 30's. In fact the only young queen to come to the throne is the last queen of Sillia called queen Jinseong of Silla who came to the throne in easily 20's

 

[untitledjuan]

Hey, I can do Simón Bolívar's analysis, but I guess I can finish it by Monday, most of the sources I know of are in Spanish, though. So I'll look for some in English. (Btw, there's a lot of debate in Colombia about Bolívar's appearance, because early paintings show him very different to the later ones when he became president. Many painters after the war of independence was won portrayed him as some kind of Roman god and that portrayal has remained, at least in Colombia, to these day, end of teaser haha)

 

[God of Kings]

Hey, I can do Simón Bolívar's analysis, but I guess I can finish it by Monday, most of the sources I know of are in Spanish, though. So I'll look for some in English. (Btw, there's a lot of debate in Colombia about Bolívar's appearance, because early paintings show him very different to the later ones when he became president. Many painters after the war of independence was won portrayed him as some kind of Roman god and that portrayal has remained, at least in Colombia, to these day, end of teaser haha)

Meanwhile, in the United States, George Washington is sometimes also portrayed as a deity.

 

[Morningcalm]

Hey, I can do Simón Bolívar's analysis, but I guess I can finish it by Monday, most of the sources I know of are in Spanish, though. So I'll look for some in English. (Btw, there's a lot of debate in Colombia about Bolívar's appearance, because early paintings show him very different to the later ones when he became president. Many painters after the war of independence was won portrayed him as some kind of Roman god and that portrayal has remained, at least in Colombia, to these day, end of teaser haha)

Great! I can add insight on the llanero unit; I found a great passage on them from Marie Arana's book Bolivar: American Liberator. I really like how in Civ VI they are portrayed with their musical instruments, and apparently those serving Bolivar were quite the characters IRL!

yeah... my mistake on translating it. 61 was actually age of her DAD when he died. it said she was actually in 40's.... she wasn't aged 20's or 30's. In fact the only young queen to come to the throne is the last queen of Sillia called queen Jinseong of Silla who came to the throne in easily 20's

Not sure what the "it" source is that you're referencing which says she wasn't aged 20's or 30's--all the sources I know are uncertain on her birth date, but the estimates show her in her 20s or 30s when she first came to the throne.

It's a matter of math--if she was born 595, and reigned 632, she was 38 on ascending, if born in 606, and reigned 632, then she was 26 on ascending, and if born 610, and reigned 632, she was 22 on ascending (give or take a year). Note that this is the Western standard of years, and not the Korean convention, which adds a year or two for time spent in the womb.

Regardless, the main point is that her character in-game is age-appropriate for history. When my mother was in her 40s she looked quite a bit younger (and even now in her 60s she looks at most 45, and this is not uncommon among Korean women based on years spent living in Korea).

(That said, I will point out Firaxis was criticized by a certain Cree leader for portraying Poundmaker as quite young, in an audio interview IIRC. But everyone should note Firaxis takes liberties with visual appearance, and this is probably fine given Civ VI's uniquely stylized visuals.)

Meanwhile, in the United States, George Washington is sometimes also portrayed as a deity.

One hopes he will not return in Civ VII, but who knows.

 

[Zaarin]

(That said, I will point out Firaxis was criticized by a certain Cree leader for portraying Poundmaker as quite young, in an audio interview IIRC. But everyone should note Firaxis takes liberties with visual appearance, and this is probably fine given Civ VI's uniquely stylized visuals.)

Honestly Poundmaker looks very recognizable as a healthier version of the famous photograph of him. He and Teddy are probably the most instantly recognizable leaders in the game.

One hopes he will not return in Civ VII, but who knows.

Depends on if Civ7 wants someone new or one of the old standards. If we're going to get an old standard, Washington would be miles away more preferable to me than Lincoln or FDR. That being said, I'd be delighted to get any of our first few presidents, whether we get someone standard or someone new.

 

[God of Kings]

Honestly Poundmaker looks very recognizable as a healthier version of the famous photograph of him. He and Teddy are probably the most instantly recognizable leaders in the game.

...even without Poundmaker's Hudson's Bay Point Blanket?

To be fair, the blanket is copyrighted and its design is trademarked. These blankets are still being manufactured and sold in Hudson's Bay (the retailer).

 

[Zaarin]

...even without Poundmaker's Hudson's Bay Point Blanket?

To be fair, the blanket is copyrighted as such blankets are still being manufactured and sold in Hudson's Bay (the retailer).

The clothing is altogether different. In the original he's wearing a studded doublet and Euro-American style clothing with a Hudsan Bay blanket draped over his shoulder, while in-game he's wearing more traditional Plains Cree clothing, but I mean the face and hair look very recognizable if you're familiar with the pictures of Poundmaker. The original's face was a little wider, but his in-game depiction overall is a good likeness.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

The clothing is altogether different. In the original he's wearing a studded doublet and Euro-American style clothing with a Hudsan Bay blanket draped over his shoulder, while in-game he's wearing more traditional Plains Cree clothing, but I mean the face and hair look very recognizable if you're familiar with the pictures of Poundmaker. The original's face was a little wider, but his in-game depiction overall is a good likeness.

A lot of leaders are instantaneously recognizable if you know the picture/sculpture they based their in-game design on.

 

[Zaarin]

A lot of leaders are instantaneously recognizable if you know the picture/sculpture they based their in-game design on.

But I would say TR and Poundmaker look the most like their source, with an honorable mention for Peter. Tamar's clothes, for instance, are recognizable from her icons, but her features are rather different. Same with Jadwiga. Wilhelmina got hit hard with the stylization. Philip looks nothing like his portraits (he's missing the blond hair and Hapsburg jaw). Etc.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

But I would say TR and Poundmaker look the most like their source, with an honorable mention for Peter. Tamar's clothes, for instance, are recognizable from her icons, but her features are rather different. Same with Jadwiga. Wilhelmina got hit hard with the stylization. Philip looks nothing like his portraits (he's missing the blond hair and Hapsburg jaw). Etc.

Poor old Pedro got hit the hardest. He looks like nothing like his official portrait.

 

[Zaarin]

Poor old Pedro got hit the hardest. He looks like nothing like his official portrait.

He got claymated.

 

[The googles do nothing]

Spoiler Trajan (Left), Yours truly :

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

But I would say TR and Poundmaker look the most like their source, with an honorable mention for Peter. Tamar's clothes, for instance, are recognizable from her icons, but her features are rather different. Same with Jadwiga. Wilhelmina got hit hard with the stylization. Philip looks nothing like his portraits (he's missing the blond hair and Hapsburg jaw). Etc.

I'm sorry, but if you don't recognize Matthias Corvinus you have problem with face recognition

Also, concerning Philip II, if we compare with a normal-looking jaw (like Trajan) we have this:

Dare to tell me the jaw on the left is not magnificent comparing to the weak one on the right. Agreed, you might have not taking it into account because of the cartoonish style, but still, for me it's visible.

 

[Buthera]

I'm sorry, but if you don't recognize Matthias Corvinus you have problem with face recognition

To be fair, the statue in Cluj-Napoca/Koloszvar they based Matthias' model on was made hundreds of years after his death. The historical Matthias looked quite different, though his hair was still fabulous.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

To be fair, the statue in Cluj-Napoca/Koloszvar they based Matthias' model on was made hundreds of years after his death. The historical Matthias looked quite different, though his hair was still fabulous.

Probably, but we're talking about the most iconic representation of the leader. At least that's what I thought.

 

[Zaarin]

I'm sorry, but if you don't recognize Matthias Corvinus you have problem with face recognition

The difference is I've never seen that statue before.

Dare to tell me the jaw on the left is not magnificent comparing to the weak one on the right.

Maybe, but he's missing the jutting jaw and overbite. Not to mention Philip II had a more neatly-trimmed beard, blond hair, and dark blue eyes. The in-game Philip looks more like Inigo Montoya--or just a generic Spanish swashbuckler.

 

[Morningcalm]

While we wait on untitledjuan's Simon Bolivar analysis, I found this interesting tidbit about the llanero from Marie Arana's Bolivar: American Liberator, page 152:

The llaneros were accomplished horsemen.... They needed few worldly goods, rode bareback, covered their nakedness with loincloths. They consumed only meat, which they strapped to their horses' flanks and cured by the sweat of the racing animals. They made tents from hides, slept on earth, reveled in hardship... Their weapon of choice was a long lance of alvarico palm, hardened to a sharp point in the campfire. They were accustomed to making rapid raids, swimming on horseback through rampant floods... They could ride at a gallop, like the armies of Genghis Khan, dangling from the side of a horse, so that their bodies were rendered invisible, untouchable... In war, they had little to lose or gain, no allegiance to politics. They were rustlers and hated the ruling class..."

That Genghis Khan mention almost makes me think Marie Arana has played Civ before, haha.

On page 3 of the book they are also called "roughriders of the harsh Venezuelan plains". The Civ wiki page conveys some of their hardiness, skill in horsemanship and in battle, as well as their allegiance to the Spanish Crown (under José Tomás Boves) and against the Spanish (led by llanero José Antonio Páez).

Of course, their image in Civ VI emphasizes their musical culture (they have related tracks on YouTube), but the Civ wiki didn't include mention of their weapons, clothing or diet as Marie Arana did in her book.

I do like that the in-game llanero getting additional strength from other llaneros and having lower maintenance cost alludes to their rough-and-tumble lifestyle, and I guess their healing upon retirement of a Comandante General is an allusion to their leaders and their famous victories in several battles in the Independence Wars.

 

[Red Khan]

They consumed only meat, which they strapped to their horses' flanks and cured by the sweat of the racing animals.

Some say that that's the original recipe for pastirma. I wonder if they came up with it themselves or was it introduced by some Asian immigrants.

 

[cain3456]

Honestly Poundmaker looks very recognizable as a healthier version of the famous photograph of him. He and Teddy are probably the most instantly recognizable leaders in the game.


Depends on if Civ7 wants someone new or one of the old standards. If we're going to get an old standard, Washington would be miles away more preferable to me than Lincoln or FDR. That being said, I'd be delighted to get any of our first few presidents, whether we get someone standard or someone new.

Given what's going on with a certain demographic, I don't believe we'll ever see George Washington in Civ again