Civilization Most Overrated in Influence.

[fugazi]

I think any historian who answers this question and truly believes in what he's saying should look in the mirror and apologize to him/herself and history as a science.

If we overrate something, it's simply because we lack knowledge of other influences! So overrating something merely is a lack of knowledge

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Well, the Byzantines had a different language, religion, fine arts style (painting, sculpture), music, architecture, cultural centers, philosophy and weaponry to the Romans. Suuuure.... just a continuation of the Romans. And Plotinus said Egypt...

Don't forget that they also recaptured the old Roman Empire while under the rule of Justinian (I believe).

I would say France. Though I'm sure this will generate some hostility against me.

 

[Mirc]

Don't forget that they also recaptured the old Roman Empire while under the rule of Justinian (I believe).

Only a small part of the Old Empire though, and it only lasted a few years. While I do believe they deserve huge credit for this, we can't simply equal them to the original starters of those territories they managed to reconquer in the times when most of Europe was in anarchy.

 

[Steph]

I would say France. Though I'm sure this will generate some hostility against me.

No! Why would it?



But you could explain why you thing so. Just choose your words carefully

 

[Lotus49]

France has been less influential than Spain, and Spain has been less influential than Britain. Yet, somehow France is supposedly right up there w/ Britain. Hence... overrated.

France beats out the Netherlands, though.

 

[AznWarlord]

Most overrated? I don't know but if I could name an underrated Civ, I'd say Assyria. I mean, they were excluded from Civ!

 

[Steph]

France has been less influential than Spain, and Spain has been less influential than Britain. Yet, somehow France is supposedly right up there w/ Britain. Hence... overrated.

It's an explanation that explains nothing. Without any real argument, it is as valid as me saying the USA have less influence than Canada, which have less influence that Andorra.

 

[Verbose]

France has been less influential than Spain, and Spain has been less influential than Britain. Yet, somehow France is supposedly right up there w/ Britain. Hence... overrated.

France beats out the Netherlands, though.

Which brings it round to how this supposedly works.

Covering vast swathes of the New World with nations of the same language after a couple of centuries of convergent history? Spain over France.

Being the catalyst for the political and social structure of European societies were reformed in the 19th c.? France over Spain.
Even for the people living through the events beginning with the French Revolution there was a distinct sense of how the world worked "before" and "after". And this was France in a relative slump as to international influence, after being the European hegemonic power since the 17th c.

Modern science, over the last two centuries? France slaps Spain silly.

The things about French influence is that it has for two centuries been couched as "universal". The Germans competing with France around 1900 were going potty over this situation. Everything the French did, was cast as "universally beneficial", "for the good of man", while anything the Germans did was cast as somehow "typically Germanic/German".

It was the flip side of cultivating a highly particular sense of nationhood, something that makes you distinct. Germany did it. So did, and does Russia. France and the US are going for "universal" and "modern". Less specific, easier to apply as influence, as it advertises itself less.

 

[Plotinus]

To put it rather simplistically: Spain was a major cultural player in the sixteenth century, giving us Suarez, Cervantes, Molina, Banez, and a host of others. Since then, it's been culturally practically inert (how many Spanish thinkers or writers of global stature can you name from after the sixteenth century?). France, by contrast, came to cultural prominence in the seventeenth century and has pretty much remained there ever since - from Descartes to Derrida, Molière to Camus, and all in between. To say that France has been less influential than Spain without even addressing this fact is ridiculous.

 

[Steph]

Or there have been 23 Nobel Prizes awarded to Spanish speaking countries (9 from Spain itself).
54 for France (and 114 for UK , and 305 for the US ).

 

[aronnax]

Or there have been 23 Nobel Prizes awarded to Spanish speaking countries (9 from Spain itself).
54 for France (and 114 for UK , and 305 for the US ).

So UK and US slaps France silly in influence? However I think US is overated. Alive for only a bare 200 years, the first 100 a regional power picking on the Mexicans and NIndians and the next 100 being a plain Isolanist. Basically another imperialistic nation whose impact is minimal until the good period between the Spanish-American War and the Great Depression. After that it goes downhill from there. Then so called culture that America produces, a bunch of movies and songs is simply a lot of fuzz over things that only supply our material needs and desires for about 38 mins. Its millitary gets bogged down and taken a bashing in Vietnam and agaisnt the Chinese in Korea. The fact such a rich country did squat to life millions of others out of poverty. And then a sharp fall starts when the millenium begins Its economic influence is a small pingpong ball being pushed about by China and the EU. Its civil department on the brink of destruction. Education is ignored. America's pretisge is also going down with the war and the blackwater company and its president.... And yet I still hear some people say its the most powerful, best, greatest, most influential country on the planet. Some say because of their movies and American Idol. Overated.

 

[Steph]

So UK and US slaps France silly in influence?

The real question would be how many US Nobel prize are recent immigrants ?
But, UK and US slaps France silly in terms of Nobel Prize.
Germany also has almost twice more Nobel Prize than France.
However, France is 4th, not to bad.

There is one thing where they COMPLETLY crush the UK/US influence.

And this one where we had also more influence.

 

[aronnax]

I actually think France is underrated. I never hear anyone prasing the French for the (magnificient and easy to learn) metric system. And their 246 kinds of cheeses

 

[Steph]

And their 246 kinds of cheeses

That's because we have between 350 and 400.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_cheeses

 

[aronnax]

Ahhh... French Cheese....I would try them all if I wasnt so disgusted by their foul smell....Oh well back to Durian

 

[Gustav_Adolf]

Ottoman empire

 

[Plotinus]

Some say because of their movies and American Idol. Overated.

Actually, American Idol is British. The original was called Pop Idol; for some reason they customised the title in each country where it was franchised out.

People who denigrate American culture always seem to overlook music. The US gave us jazz, blues, and rock and roll, which is pretty impressive.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

To put it rather simplistically: Spain was a major cultural player in the sixteenth century, giving us Suarez, Cervantes, Molina, Banez, and a host of others. Since then, it's been culturally practically inert (how many Spanish thinkers or writers of global stature can you name fromafter the sixteenth century?). France, by contrast, came to cultural prominence in the seventeenth century and has pretty much remained there ever since - from Descartes to Derrida, Molière to Camus, and all in between. To say that France has been less influential than Spain without even addressing this fact is ridiculous.

...Precisely it was the 17th century (AKA the gold century) when Spain reached his peak culturally speaking with writers as Francisco de Quevedo, Calderon de la Barca, Luis de Gongora to name some or artists as Diego Velazqez. The Quijote was edited and in the 17th century. But after that there have been loads of prominent figures (not counting the hispanic ones of course) as Pablo Ruiz Picasso, Ramón y Cajal, Severo Ochoa, Federico García Lorca, Salvador Dalí, Antoni Gaudí, Francisco de Goya, Antonio Machado, Gregorio Marañón, Ortega y Gasset, Camilo José Cela, Juán Ramón Jiménez, Manuel de Falla, Luis Buñuel...

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I think the main problem when judging American influence on the world is trying to figure out where British influence ends and American influence begins. We can all agree that certain cultural and political achievements are uniquely American, but there is a lot of grey area with regards to many things especially the further back in history you go.

France though was the dominate continental power in Europe for 300 years and a significant world power on top of that. If you consider as many do that Franks = French, then they are even more influential as a people. Personally, I'd have them as the third most influential Western power after Britain & Rome.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Another problem with American influence is that a lot of it is modern. Many of it after WWII, but almost all of it within the last century.

But there is one thing that American cannot be underrated for - Democracy. Its victory against the British set a chain of events even American-haters know determined the course of modern history well.