Civilization: Rise of Empires(mod concept)

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I haven't had my game disks for awile, after I had to wipe my harddrive my friends, my modding days for Civ3 came to an end, which I wasn't happy about. But nevertheless..I have an idea here, and I wanted to share it for feedback and discussion.

Basicly, I was a fan of the Empire Earth games, namely the first and second, but also, Age of Empires 3 really captured my imagination with its two expansions.

The work Sandris, Ogedai, Redalert, and many others have done to create the awesome unit libruaries we now have is simply amazing and I'm very inspired by all they have done.

Here is the basic idea of what I have and want to accomplish:

You will bring toghether a small tribe at the dawn of history, uniting them from hunter-gatherers into small farming communities, and later, into the first city states and empires..

Sound Familiar?

Perhaps..but here is the twist. Your tribe will rise and ascend into one of the most famaos empires in history, from the caves of prehistory, you will guide them to the future era which in our time only exists in our imagination.

And each of these nations will belong, just as in civ3, to a particular cultural group. But the cultural group will determine much more than what the civilization's city style is.

No...your entire play strategy will be different. This is mirrored by history at first for at least one group.

Everything down to your buildings, your units, and even your choice of wonders will be determined by your cultural group first, but by your civilization later. Its my hope that civilizations will have their own play strategy, even more than just the unique unit or flavor units used in the past. This was an idea I explored with with my previous mod, but I think I want to start again with a totally new mod for a totally new era of Civ3 modding making.

Continued belong..

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

First of all...the Cultural groups...something I always had to love or hate depending on what I wanted in the mod..

Here are the culture groups I do want to see:

-Mesopatamian/Middle Eastern:

This group would include most of the classical civilizations and empires of the ancient copper and bronze ages: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Hittites and later Arabs.

The problem here is not that the units don't exist, they have plenty thanks to the talented arts of Sandris and others, however, the cities I am perplexed about. What sort of graphics would they use?

The Cresant/Mesopatamian style existed roughly the same time as the Egyptian style. Later this isn't much of an issue as theirs really one Middle Eastern Style due to the Arabic islamic influence.

-European

This includes the Greeks, Romans, Carthage as the classical civilizations early on, later, the English, French, Spanish and Germans join up. They are the biggest group.

To be continued..

 

[wolf_brother]

However, the cities I am perplexed about. What sort of graphics would they use?

Hmm...
I actually intended those, and use them, as cities for an expanded Middle Eastern culture group which includes Greece, Byzantine, etc. I then move Rome into the European group, and re-label and re-work the Mediterranean group into an (Sub-Saharan) African group.

Just tossing the idea out there.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I don't know, it certainly can be discussed further, I think mainly I want to really include civilizations that have alot of representation here from unit creators before going to include ones that are my "pet civs".

Asian:

This group includes China, Korea and Japan, as well as the Mongols. City graphics...well I'd have to choose something that looks good, possibly something Ogedai created..

Mesoamerican:

Aztecs, Mayans, etc..

That leaves group four...

Perhaps an African and also an Indian culture group rather than the Mesoamerican one?

Furthermore...the timespan of the mod is something I want at once to be epic..yet fitting it into civ3 can be annoying.

What I want the first era to cover is:

-Stone Age and founding of civilizations
-Copper Age(ancient sumeria, egypt etc, I would consider the Aztecs perhaps here in terms of development, they had metallurgy I believe)
-Bronze Age(Greek city states, and later the empire of alexander)
-Iron age(Roman Empire, Ancient China)

Second Era is:

-Feudal Age(Europe during the dark ages, Sengoku Japan etc)
-Middle Ages(Europe after the dark ages, the middle east during the dark ages, Medival China)
-Renaiisse/Gunpowder Age
-Colonial Era(the beginning of european overseas empires)

Third Era:

-Enlightenment Age(Late 18th century to early 19th century)
-Industrial Era(Mid 19th century to early 20th century)
-World War 1
-World War 2

Fourth Era:

-Atomic Age(From the end of the second world war to 1980)
-Information Age(1980-2032)
-Synthetic Age(2032 to early 22nd century)
-Space Age

Another idea would be to take a page from Rhye's old mod and have the third era entirely 1700s and 1800s perhaps, while the last era could be the 20th and 21st centuries.

 

[Steph]

Doesn't it look very close to what I'm trying to do with my epic mod?

 

[Madeira]

Sounds good, but perhaps like Steph says, many Epic mods in development are allready trying to do something similar, like my own, but thats no reason for you not to proceed with your ideas, even if we end up borrowing ideas from eachother's mods

Regarding the city sets, you could do what I did, combine Mediterranean with European, the smallest sized cities will look like european while the largest look like greco-roman, check the downloads for a set I posted a while ago. Then you'll have a free set you can use for the Indians or Africans, or both if you dont use American civs, but I'd rather use American than African.

Regarding the eras, what I did was make Era 1 go to the early Iron age (classical Greek period, early Republican Rome, barbaric civs have slower development so when they reach the end of Era 1 they will be in the barbarian invasions period), Era 2 goes from Iron age through Feudal and to Industrialization (you should consider the city graphics change at the end of the era, so Industrialization should be the last tech since cities will look Industrial in the following era), Era 3 goes from Industrialization to the Atomic age (end of WW2, start of cold war), Era 4 goes from then to the Information age and beyond.

 

[tom2050]

Perhaps..but here is the twist. Your tribe will rise and ascend into one of the most famaos empires in history, from the caves of prehistory, you will guide them to the future era which in our time only exists in our imagination.

Initially it sounded from your statement that you were planning on extending the game far into the future (past the normal point where most epic's end)... and into something similar to the Alpha Centauri game era with futuristic techs such as that. That would be a definite twist!

Tom

 

[Steph]

Actually, this kind of mod is difficult to do, because using non-era tech is a bit messy, as the tech cannot be traded at all.

Let me explain. Suppose I want to force the Italians to discover the "Roman republic" before it can discover the "Roman empire".

Both are specific to Italy, for instance they require the "Italian" non-era tech.
But because of this, they cannot be used as requirement for a generic tech.

And it blocks a lot of things. For instance, I cannot have a "Roman republic" as a requirement for a generic "Iron age" tech.

There is one way to go around this. The tech could not be a requirement of another tech, but required to change era.

So the Italians would need to discover Roman republic to move to the next era, the other civ may need to discover something else (ex: Alexander empire for the Greek).

The techs for the next era would indirectly need these two techs, as they are needed to change era, but as they are not directly needed they won't relate to non-era tech, and can remain generic.

The problem is: for this to work we need more than 4 eras.

We need Bronze Age, Iron Age, Feudal age, middle age, renaissance, colonial era, etc.

In January, I plan to start working on a way to allow that with a modified editor.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I think more than anything else Steph, the four eras do indeed constrict what can and cannot be in the game.

I have to say you diffinitely deserve a spot on a game development company, another possibility is you could make your own, you do have the creativity and business savy to do so I think.

Back to topic:

I used alot of cultural specific technologies in my old mod, not as much as others may have, but at least I'd say, the first and second eras looked different for nearly every civilization in Far Horizons Reduxe. I did this for flavor, and because I wanted wonders and some buildings to be culturaly unique.

Here is another idea that I have. I enjoyed the Age of Empires 3 game, and its expansions. I've thought about perhaps this concept, a mod based loosely on the three AoE games and their expansions, but shaped by my own ideas as well as concepts from the Civilization game.

This mod could begin in the Stone Age, and end in the late 19th century, if it covered all the games. But another idea I have is having the big empire builders of Europe, and having the mod take place from the Feudal Era to the Industrial Age(late 19th century), basicly Age of Empires 2 and 3..

You would have the european civilizations(Spain, France, England etc), the Mesoamerican civilizations(Aztecs and Mayans), middle eastern civilizations(Ottomons, Egyptians, Arabs, Persians), the great civilizations of the far east(China, Japan, Korea) plus the Mongols, India, and finally the Sioux and Iroquois native americans.

Each would have their own units, playstyle, city improvements. Wonders would work differently depending on the cultural group.

 

[RedAlert]

Welcome back!

I think the first thing required to make a good mod is creativity - and you certainly have a lot of ideas. I have read through all the posts so far, but I will keep my initial comments short. I think the next step will be to focus in on a few of the ideas you have outlined so far (since some of them are about different potential projects altogether).

I'm behind you whatever you choose to pursue (I'm just glad to have you modding again!). But I'll express my opinion now that I'm not sure if an epic mod of the 'dawn of civilization ---> future' nature is the way to go this time. For one thing you have done this before, and quite well I think, with Far Horizons + Heart of Destiny. Another reason is that I would hate to see how the limitations of Civ3 (especially in regards to tech trees and culture groups) compromise your grand vision.... although perhaps Steph will work out a way with his new editor to make it possible for you to come closer to your ideal.

Out of the ideas you have mentioned so far, the one that appeals to me most is this:

But another idea I have is having the big empire builders of Europe, and having the mod take place from the Feudal Era to the Industrial Age(late 19th century), basicly Age of Empires 2 and 3..

You would have the european civilizations(Spain, France, England etc), the Mesoamerican civilizations(Aztecs and Mayans), middle eastern civilizations(Ottomons, Egyptians, Arabs, Persians), the great civilizations of the far east(China, Japan, Korea) plus the Mongols, India, and finally the Sioux and Iroquois native americans.

Each would have their own units, playstyle, city improvements. Wonders would work differently depending on the cultural group.

I think this idea is something different and interesting. It's still large enough in scale to have that epic mod feel, while the focus will make it easier to pursue and will give you less trouble with the limited amount of culture groups, I think. Timescale-wise something like ~800s-900 to 1800s-1900?

Whatever you ultimately decide on I wish you luck on completing it, and I will try to help you in what ways I can.

 

[Steph]

I have to say you diffinitely deserve a spot on a game development company, another possibility is you could make your own, you do have the creativity and business savy to do so I think.

Thanks, but unfortunately I don't have the financing.

About your mod, I think you should give some examples of what you are trying to achieve. So far, it seems a bit like other epic mod, I don't really see the difference.

 

[Madeira]

I have to agree with Red, I've made some personal mods a long time ago that only covered a shorter period of history and I've got to say, they were very fun to play. If I were to start one today, I would choose a starting date before the Age of Discovery, after the Dark Ages, some big empires in decline and great kingdoms on the rise, but I would make it world wide, with civs in all continents, and all allowed to prosper and reach modern times. I like scenarios where you're not just aiming to repeat historical events or fight to prevent them, I like being able to create alternate histories if some things dont happen like they're supposed to.

 

[wolf_brother]

If I were to start one today, I would choose a starting date before the Age of Discovery, after the Dark Ages, some big empires in decline and great kingdoms on the rise, but I would make it world wide, with civs in all continents, and all allowed to prosper and reach modern times.

Starting somewhere between 900 - 1200 CE?

I think this idea is something different and interesting. It's still large enough in scale to have that epic mod feel, while the focus will make it easier to pursue and will give you less trouble with the limited amount of culture groups, I think. Timescale-wise something like ~800s-900 to 1800s-1900?

 

[Madeira]

Starting somewhere between 900 - 1200 CE?

1200AC seems about right what I was thinking, dont know if CE is the same as AC or AD

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

SoG is back!

1200 to modern seems alright with me, if you're looking to keep the epic scope but allow for detail within the limitations of the Civ3 editor.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I'm actually thinking more along the lines of a sort of Age of Empires mod for civilization, but since I never played number one, I have no idea what it was like, or what civilizations were apart of it.

I have played number 2 and 3 however. Heres how it would work with the current era limitations:

Era One:

Feudal Age: 900-1300:

Swords, armor, castles, crusades


Age of Discovery: 1300-1550

exploration, imperialism, art

Age of Enlightenment: 1600s-1800

science, rebelling colonies, pirates

Industrial Age: 1800-1900

Factories, unions, steam, inventions.

I want this mod to be fun so I may end the last era with some steampunk like stuff by the way..

How to encorporate that into a mod with multiple cultures..I'm not sure, but I'm open to suggestions.

Also the era words are rather euro-centric I know.

 

[Madeira]

Now that sounds more interesting!

 

[RedAlert]

I'm a big fan of Age of Empires 2 & 3 also. I've played a bit of AoE1 before, but I don't own it.

I can fish for good graphics (cities, mostly) for you once the culture groups are sorted out.

Have any more ideas lately? Do you need suggestions for anything in particular (civs or techs, for instance)?

----------------------

1988 posts.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Im not sure, but for the mod there diffinitely has to be:

-Europeans
-East Asians
-Mesoamericans
-Native Americans(Sioux and Iroqious)
-Middle East(Plus India)

So I think Ill go with those groups.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

No Africa this time around? Who do you have as your must-have civs in this mod?