Civilization VII Gameplay Showcase August 20

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That is very nice to see :lol:.

Am I the only one who thinks it looks more like an RTS?

That's just the level of zoom and the camera angle

At least Civ4 had an option where you got dynamically move the camera over the landscape (that was hidden in the modding options).
It was in no way useful for playing, but it gave you the option to make some very nice and interesting screenshots.
I would expect maybe something similar here.
 
Hello Fellow Civ Fans

This would be a great time to bring back the live studio video developer segments which they did alot with the NFP expansion. Always loved the personal video's in studio with Ed Beach and their the developer perspectives on the new features and game mechanics etc. Also bring back the competition games between Beach and others. Overall more input with live in studio development segments.

I am a day 1 buyer of CIV VII ...been hooked since Civ 1 on two floppy discs.

Brew God
 
I think you are on to something here: a possible 'new approach' to the pre-game marketing of the Civ series. In the past they've dribbled out information, prompting masses of uninformed speculation on various forums. Having noted that (it would have been impossible to miss!) I think they are trying to build on it: give us several juicy bites to masticate endlessly based on what is actually going to be in the game. This Forum may not have a multitude of followers in Game Industry terms, but speculation here, and on Reddit and Discord and other platforms will spill over, get repeated, and build genuine 'buzz' for the game's actual, as opposed to speculative features.

Which also means that on 20 August we will see more than one Brand New Feature or Brand New Implementation of an old feature in the game. Since neither the Civ V nor the Civ VI Retrospectives have said word one about 1UPT, I'd bet money one New Implementation will be some kind of new combat system. Beyond that, according to the old Saw 1/3 New, 1/3 Revised, a lot of the game is potentially available to host Something New.
I’m personally REALLY hoping they don’t adopt a Humankind esque combat system
 
I didn't like the HK combat system, but I really like the similar AoW4 combat system.

Breaking combat off into a tactical map is probably going to be the natural evolution for the 4X genre. It allows you to have stacks on the world map and 1UPT in combat, the best of both worlds. It allows appropriate unit scale, so that archery units aren't firing arrows across the breadth of Italy, for example. And there should be an auto-resolve option if you can't be bothered to finish off that lone barb Scout by hand.

The problem with HK combat is that they made it needlessly complex, particularly sieges. I played HK for the VIP program and for months after release and never got the hang of sieges.
 
Breaking combat off into a tactical map is probably going to be the natural evolution for the 4X genre. It allows you to have stacks on the world map and 1UPT in combat, the best of both worlds.
As someone currently getting into AoW4, I'm not so sure. I think the reason why it works in AoW4 is because it is a war focused game and I think it works really well in that kind of game. Civ isn't a war focused game and I think it would get very tedious have to break into a separate game mode for most combats if you are doing a science victory or similar, even with an auto-resolve option. There is also the fact that you can't really play defensively with that kind of system in the way you can with Civ6, which I think is valuable because it allows players to player defensively without have to commit to a massive military. In Civ6, city and encampment placement can allow to defend against a larger army while not without having to make a full commitment to building military units. I think that is important if you want peaceful playstyles to be viable.
 
I’m personally REALLY hoping they don’t adopt a Humankind esque combat system
I started out really liking it, smply because it did condense battles into the equivalent of One Tile, One Turn, which I think is a basic necessity to make a Grand Strategic game like Civ make any sense at all. After a couple of months, though, the negatives of it became apparent:
Using the game map as a tactical map resulted in 'battlefields' with far too much complexity and terrain on them for any battle fought before modern firearms
Each battle took time to game out, and in the late game a war between two major powers might produce several battles in a single turn, turn after turn. Turn Times went from a minute or less to half an hour or more each and everything else in the game except the battles slowed to a crawl.

There are still a lot of things I like about HKs way of handling Unit attributes, but I am much less enthusiastic about any 'drop down' tactical system after experiencing it in HK - and in Millenia, which goes the other way from HK and does not allow you to play out anything on the tactical map: you send the army in, the game plays the battle and tells you what happened. The battle graphics are primitive beyond belief, and the gamer has no input or agency in the battles at all. That seeds up the game enormously, because not only do battles take no player time at all, but the player quickly gets tired of the whole thing and drops the game. Saved me a lot of time anyway.

I didn't like the HK combat system, but I really like the similar AoW4 combat system.

Breaking combat off into a tactical map is probably going to be the natural evolution for the 4X genre. It allows you to have stacks on the world map and 1UPT in combat, the best of both worlds. It allows appropriate unit scale, so that archery units aren't firing arrows across the breadth of Italy, for example. And there should be an auto-resolve option if you can't be bothered to finish off that lone barb Scout by hand.

The problem with HK combat is that they made it needlessly complex, particularly sieges. I played HK for the VIP program and for months after release and never got the hang of sieges.
You could certainly discern a 'trend' in separate tactical maps/drop-down combat systems in new games like Humankind, Millenia, and the near-release ARA, all of which are using that kind of system.

But, as noted, Humankind and Millenia have both produced battle systems that are immensely unsatisfying. I have not had a chance to play or view any battles in ARA, so will probably have to wait until it is released this September to comment, but the 'Trend' does not impress so far.

I may be the only gamer in the Hemisphere that cares, but one problem I have with virtually all the combat systems mentioned and in Civ VI is the Level of Command. That is, supposedly you are playing the Immortal Omniscient God King/Spirit of the Civilization or Culture, yet on the other hand in battle you are the Shire Reeve telling each of your archers where to shoot, the Captain commanding the unit of musketmen, the Knight Banneret leading a charge of knights. That's a lot of hats to keep switching out conceptually, and it frankly blows the immersion and identification all to pieces for me.

Again, maybe it's just me, but I would like to have the level/degree of control and direction that an Absolute Monarch had, but No More. That is, I can tell the army how to form up on the battlefield, roughly , and whether I want them to attack, defend, maneuver, take a lot of prisoners for the Altar on the Temple of Kukulcan, or give no quarter. But exactly how each unit carries out the general orders is well below my Pay Grade, so to speak.

If you want complete control of all details in a battle scenario, play Chess or Checkers, or one of the myriad of battle combat video games. I just don't think (and again, only my Opinion) that such detail is appropriate in a game whose smallest turn is One Year and whose focus is building a Civilization over centuries.
 
Again, maybe it's just me, but I would like to have the level/degree of control and direction that an Absolute Monarch had, but No More. That is, I can tell the army how to form up on the battlefield, roughly , and whether I want them to attack, defend, maneuver, take a lot of prisoners for the Altar on the Temple of Kukulcan, or give no quarter. But exactly how each unit carries out the general orders is well below my Pay Grade, so to speak.
Victoria3 tried something like this and it was. . . controversial, to say the least. Even people who like the idea think the implementation is kind of poor, and there are plenty of people who like Victoria3 but basically only go to war as a last resort. The main problem with that kind of system is that is going to be kind of frustrating for the player to interact with because a) interaction is minimal and unsatisfying and b) having to explain to player why the AI is doing the things its doing. Like, no one is going to enjoy watching their army with good stats and traits blunder into a disaster for no discernible reason. It also prevents the player from playing smartly to overcome disadvantages, which is an experience I image a lot of players find rewarding. Maybe someone will make such a system interesting in the future but I image will we be sticking with player control over units for a while.
 
My problem with Humankind's battle system was just plain too many military units, making battles extremely crowded. Or perhaps the system itself may have collapsing with too many units. It feels nice in the early eras, where it's a cute minigame rewarding some smart positioning, but then battles turn into those ww1 slogs of dozens of military units covering every accessible battlefield tile (with reinforcements on top of it) and you spending a ton of time on them.

So the game got rid of 1UPT problem of tedious army transport tile after tile, with a million small traffic jams, but then repackaged it in the mid->late game battles which are sudden discrete instances of turbo traffic jam.
 
Breaking combat off into a tactical map is probably going to be the natural evolution for the 4X genre.
Geez I hope not.

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Haha, I do, but I'd rather (at least in civ) that they not put the resources into combat over other areas. Just a personal opinion but I'd rather combat stay a little on the periphery.
I'm not a domination player myself, but if Civ combat were more like AoW4 combat, then I'd probably be more aggressive.
 
I have yet to enjoy any of the 'minigame' style combat systems in a 4X game. I just find however it's implemented it feels like it's yanking you out of the main game into something artificial. I'd much rather take the numerous abstractions which keep everything on one map.
 
You know it can be done better than that, right?
Which is precisely where the emphasis must lie: doing it better, and well enough that the disenchantment, as mentioned by @InsidiousMage reference Victoria 3, can be avoided.

There are a number of ways, well within the scope of the Civ system, that Gamer Agency can be built in without requiring Gamer to play out every unit action in a battle:

1. Posture: Gamer tells his army what kind of battle it should fight: hasty defense, positional defense, mobile defense, all-out attack, deliberate attack, mobile attack, etc. and the interaction between the Postures of the two forces and the capabilities of the units in the armies determines much of what happens next, including Nothing: two forces both with Positional Defense postures will sit and watch each other - and cue in memories of the Western Front in WWI.

2. More rigid Unit types versus Deployment. Millenia does this, sort of and badly. Label all combat units as Line, Mobile, and Support. Line deploy in front and center, Mobile on the flanks, Support in the rear or flanks. Want to do something weird in the deployment, you need a Great General in attendance - a refused Center as in Cannae requires a Hannibal in charge, not Scipio Apricatus, the Roman Fruitcake.

3. Provide a number of ways to get More Influence on the battle:
a. Certain governments can turn the Leader into a (Great) General and use him to change things in the Posture or Deployment - and possibly, get him the tile of 'The Great" or "The Late".
b. Unit Promotions can include promotion to Elite Troops that allow them to do more 'irregular' things on the battlefield, like Mobile Units doing Line actions and vice-versa.
c. Supply, Attrition, and such rules could change the parameters of Unit Strength and capability. As the simplest example, modern Artillery without ammunition (as in, perhaps, an accompanying Supply Train) has Zero Combat Factor. Without Fuel, armor/tank Mobile Units have Zero Mobility. This will change the combat outcomes dramatically, and makes explicit the relationship between Support from off the battlefield and Battlefield Performance.
 
As someone currently getting into AoW4, I'm not so sure. I think the reason why it works in AoW4 is because it is a war focused game and I think it works really well in that kind of game. Civ isn't a war focused game and I think it would get very tedious have to break into a separate game mode for most combats if you are doing a science victory or similar, even with an auto-resolve option. There is also the fact that you can't really play defensively with that kind of system in the way you can with Civ6, which I think is valuable because it allows players to player defensively without have to commit to a massive military. In Civ6, city and encampment placement can allow to defend against a larger army while not without having to make a full commitment to building military units. I think that is important if you want peaceful playstyles to be viable.
Yeah, I just straight up don’t enjoy tactical combat maps in a game like Civ. I used to enjoy Age of Wonders years ago but I even got tired of the battles there and that was literally what the entire game was built upon.

I quite enjoy how Civ handles combat I just want to see the AI have the ability to effectively wage war and capture cities after the medieval era.
 
I used to enjoy Age of Wonders years ago but I even got tired of the battles there and that was literally what the entire game was built upon.
I'm currently hit or miss on combat in AoW4. On the one hand, its actually enjoyable when I do take the time to do it properly but, that's the issue. I'm not always in the "mood" to do a full round of combat and the temptation to hit the auto-resolve button is always there. Some of the issue the sheer amount of information I still need to learn so maybe once I get over that hurdle I'll be more willing to take the time to do the combat myself.

I quite enjoy how Civ handles combat I just want to see the AI have the ability to effectively wage war and capture cities after the medieval era.
I feel like a lot of the dissatisfaction with combat in Civ6 comes from the fact that the AI isn't that good at it. I think combat in Civ6 is mostly fine the real issue is that you receive very little push back from the AI, even on some of the higher difficulty levels. If the AI could stay competitive into the late game, I think a lot of the dissatisfaction would go away.
 
I didn't like the HK combat system, but I really like the similar AoW4 combat system.

Breaking combat off into a tactical map is probably going to be the natural evolution for the 4X genre.

"Natural evolution". Age of Wonders and Heroes of Might and Magic have been doing this for almost three decades.

And as other people also pointed out, having a separate combat map like AoW and HoMaM do pretty much by definition comes with a significantly heavier combat focus than Civilization currently has. I don't think it'd fit the game well.

I used to enjoy Age of Wonders years ago but I even got tired of the battles there and that was literally what the entire game was built upon.

Honestly, AoW4 is significantly better in that regard because you can manually replay battles if you're not content with the autocombat result. That means you can just autocombat battles and only manual combat the ones where the AI doesn't perform well enough, rather than having to manual combat all of them in order to avoid potentially losing units to the AI doing something stupid.

I'm currently hit or miss on combat in AoW4. On the one hand, its actually enjoyable when I do take the time to do it properly but, that's the issue. I'm not always in the "mood" to do a full round of combat and the temptation to hit the auto-resolve button is always there.

This is another reason for me to autocombat everything first. The game pace is actually better if you mostly autocombat, and manual combat is for the fights where it's needed.

Which also means, by the way, that in practice you're doing manual combat for the most interesting (and often biggest) fights. The ones where you are at genuine risk of losing multiple units, or might even lose, or will lose but want to inflict as much damage as possible. Meanwhile all the easy fights that would still take 3-10 minutes you can just skip in 5 seconds.
 
Back when Firaxis had lots of job applications, I remember one mentioning "tabletop miniature games", it could hint at some combat mode in Civ, or it could be for XCom too.
 
For those around the world that don't know exactly when and how this will take place:

Pacific Time*Tue 20 08 202413:30
Denver, CO, USA* / Mexico City, MexicoTue 20 08 202414:30
Chicago, IL, USA* / Bogotá, Colombia / Lima, PeruTue 20 08 202415:30
Ottawa Canada* / Santiago, ChileTue 20 08 202416:30
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Copenhagen, Denmark* / Madrid, Spain* / Berlin, Germany* / Amsterdam, Netherlands* / Rome, Italy* / Cape Town, South AfricaTue 20 08 202422:30
Moscow, Russia / Istanbul, Turkey / Beirut, Lebanon*Tue 20 08 202423:30
Tehran, IranWed 21 08 202400:00
Tbilisi, GeorgiaWed 21 08 202400:30
Kabul, AfghanistanWed 21 08 202401:00
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Beijing, China / Manila, Philippines / Singapore, Singapore / Perth, Australia / Taipei, TaiwanWed 21 08 202404:30
Seoul, South KoreaWed 21 08 202405:30
Adelaide, AustraliaWed 21 08 202406:00
Canberra, AustraliaWed 21 08 202406:30
Wellington, New ZealandWed 21 08 202408:30
* Observing Daylight Saving Time

Source:

@The_J maybe add this to the starting post?
:goodjob:
This is my sleeping time already, I should have been at deep sleep by then too bad. and it is WEEKDAYS!
Thailand is placed in the same Timezone as INA and VN.
 
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