Civs Made More or Less Likely by Current Civ Cities

[Boris Gudenuf]

Surprised you didn't say Queen Elizabeth I which would make more sense than both of them. That being said I have gotten used to CdM, but still would want another leader to give France a different direction.

Just the legitimate rulers of France give the designers a huge variety of directions in which to go:
Francis I and Henry IV for military, the former related to First Use of field cannon and the latter a most Religious militancy or even a way to purloin effects from other religions ("Paris is worth a Mass" - or a Chant, Revival Meeting, Seder or Haj...)
Louis XI (The Spider King) for spy or diplomatic action
Louis XIV for Culture or possibly a Bonus to Wonder Building
Napoleon I, but instead of more military, one could emphasize his rebuilding of France's administrative and legal structure
Louis Napoleon - given his rebuilding of Paris, perhaps the game ability to replace, move or rebuild Districts?
Clemenceau and DeGaulle for 20th century leaders with diplomatic and military leanings.

While European Civs are passe compared to the 'exotic' Civs, the fact is that France has a rich variety of leaders for almost any set of Uniques you want to bestow...

 

[Patine]

Just the legitimate rulers of France give the designers a huge variety of directions in which to go:
Francis I and Henry IV for military, the former related to First Use of field cannon and the latter a most Religious militancy or even a way to purloin effects from other religions ("Paris is worth a Mass" - or a Chant, Revival Meeting, Seder or Haj...)
Louis XI (The Spider King) for spy or diplomatic action
Louis XIV for Culture or possibly a Bonus to Wonder Building
Napoleon I, but instead of more military, one could emphasize his rebuilding of France's administrative and legal structure
Louis Napoleon - given his rebuilding of Paris, perhaps the game ability to replace, move or rebuild Districts?
Clemenceau and DeGaulle for 20th century leaders with diplomatic and military leanings.

While European Civs are passe compared to the 'exotic' Civs, the fact is that France has a rich variety of leaders for almost any set of Uniques you want to bestow...

Pedantic question - why doesn't Louis Napoleon get his generally-recognized Imperial regnal number if his uncle does on the list?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Hmm, I seem to recall reading about 9,000 BC in Georgia, but I could be mistaken. I think vineyards, grapes, and wine are pretty, but since I don't drink it I don't take a particular interest in it. I feel far more indebted to Ethiopia for its contributions to the world's beverages.

I suspect you're referring to the Shulaveri Gera site in Georgia, which has been dated to about 6000 BCE. It shows evidence of storage of large quantities of wine and extensive ancient vineyards, but no actual wine making equipment or production facilities have been excavated there (yet!)

The oldest evidence of grape wine is from the Jiahu site in China, dating to 7000 BCE, where they found residue from grape wine and several other alcoholic fermentation beverages as well. Wine never caught on in China until approximately the Tang Dynasty about 7500 years later!

At Vayots Dzor in Armenia they found not only evidence of wine (made from a variety of grapes still used today) but also a wine press, fermentation vats, and other wine-making equipment, dating to about 4100 BCE. The equipment was so complete it is assumed that this was not the earliest use of any of it, but it remains (for now) the earliest direct evidence of wine production.

For our purposes in Civ VI, VII and VIII, it only indicates that by Start of Game in 4000 BCE winemaking was a well-understood process in several areas of the world in several entirely different 'Civilizations' ranging from China to Georgia to Armenia (and Egypt and Greece, both with sites showing wine evidence before 3000 - 3500 BCE)

 

[Zaarin]

Surprised you didn't say Queen Elizabeth I which would make more sense than both of them.

I want Lizzy culture focused--she did preside over one of the shiniest literary golden ages in Anglophone history after all.

That being said I have gotten used to CdM, but still would want another leader to give France a different direction.

Her in game persona is certainly charming.

 

[Guandao]

Yes, Tamar is more interesting than Tigranes or Tiridates, but Armenia is more interesting than Georgia, so it's a trade off.

I find the Georgian language more interesting than the Armenian one.

And he's also my favorite president.

Why is Silent Cal your favorite president? Nevermind, I think I already know the answer....

The oldest evidence of grape wine is from the Jiahu site in China, dating to 7000 BCE, where they found residue from grape wine and several other alcoholic fermentation beverages as well. Wine never caught on in China until approximately the Tang Dynasty about 7500 years later!

I don't think East Asians were meant to imbibe alcohol. I absolutely hate the taste of it.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Pedantic question - why doesn't Louis Napoleon get his generally-recognized Imperial regnal number if his uncle does on the list?

I generally find that using the form 'Louis Napoleon' distinguishes him more clearly from his uncle when I'm not sure how much the audience knows about French Imperial history. My apologies to Napoleon III and his followers and his lovely wife the Empress Eugenie, who did as much as anyone to popularize the new artificial aniline dyes with her stunning green silk gown.

I don't think East Asians were meant to imbibe alcohol. I absolutely hate the taste of it.

Not liking the taste of alcohol is probably a tremendous advantage for Long Term Survival, but unfortunately, so far as we can tell from the archeological evidence (which is incomplete) ALL humans who had access to them used alcoholic beverages, either recreationally or religiously or ceremonially.

It has been argued that the earliest use of grain was to make beer, not bread, for instance, and the earliest evidence of beer making has now been pushed back to 11,000 BCE (Raqefet Cave in Israel), where the grain used was gathered, not grown, so alcoholic beer pre-dates both wine and agriculture!

Perhaps to commemorate this we need to add as one or more Great Merchants in Civ VI Dom Perignon, Arthur Guiness, William Jamieson, or James 'Jack' Daniels ...

 

[Zaarin]

I find the Georgian language more interesting than the Armenian one.

They're both interesting.

Why is Silent Cal your favorite president? Nevermind, I think I already know the answer...

Shrank the size of government, extended citizenship of Native Americans, was notoriously terse...and may be one of the few (the only?) president of the 20th century admired by both sides (though obviously more so by conservatives).

I don't think East Asians were meant to imbibe alcohol. I absolutely hate the taste of it.

You've never read Outlaw of the Marsh, have you?

It has been argued that the earliest use of grain was to make beer, not bread, for instance, and the earliest evidence of beer making has now been pushed back to 11,000 BCE (Raqefet Cave in Israel), where the grain used was gathered, not grown, so alcoholic beer pre-dates both wine and agriculture!

And, of course, mead pushes alcohol in general even further back.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

And, of course, mead pushes alcohol in general even further back.

Well, Alcohol and its effects are hard to avoid in the wild. Any human hunter who watched birds flying lopsided after they gobbled some grapes or fruit that had fallen on the ground and fermented or deer staggering after eating blackberries that spent too long on the ground in the fall, will quickly discover, and probably experience, the effects of alcohol. I don't consider myself anywhere near as observant as the average Hunter-Gatherer, but I saw the birds in Germany (late fall vineyards provide a wild source for Funny Videos of drunk birds) and the deer in my backyard here in the Pacific Northwest, so evidence of alcohol is pretty wide spread geographically and probably climactically.

All of which is parenthetical to the OP, but it does serve to remind that wine, beer, mead, and all the alcoholic beverages except distilled liquor are Starting Technologies for Civ VI and any other Civ game using the same starting date. In fact, I regard mead and kumiss as evidence that humans will make alcoholic beverages out of anything, no matter how ghastly the results...

 

[Zaarin]

In fact, I regard mead and kumiss as evidence that humans will make alcoholic beverages out of anything, no matter how ghastly the results...

If there's alcohol in it, the results will be ghastly. (Love cooking with beer, though.)

 

[Guandao]

You've never read Outlaw of the Marsh, have you?

Outlaw of the Marsh? You mean Water Margin? Nope, never read it.
Well, some of us East Asians have this reaction to alcohol.

And to get on topic, I'm guessing the Ottomans and Moroccans aren't eliminated by the current City-Lists. Some people think the leaked xebec ship concept art is for one of these Civs. I'm not entirely sure, it could be a new Barbarian naval unit or a new naval unit available to all Civs.

 

[Zaarin]

Outlaw of the Marsh? You mean Water Margin? Nope, never read it.

There's a lot of drinking in it. A lot of drinking.

 

[Guandao]

There's a lot of drinking in it. A lot of drinking.

That doesn't mean all Chinese people love to get drunk.

 

[Zaarin]

That doesn't mean all Chinese people love to get drunk.

Of course not: it simply means some do.

 

[Siptah]

Well, some of us East Asians have this reaction to alcohol.

Doesn't stop drinking: https://www.diffordsguide.com/encyclopedia/463/bws/the-worlds-best-selling-spirits

And to not completely derail the thread: it's not really about cities that make civs less or more likely, but the interaction with resources. Only pantheons give bonuses to certain resources. Is there any leader/civ coming to mind that could get a big bonus from a certain single resource and thus starts always next to it? The easy to associate quarries are already used by a pantheon and so are most luxuries like cocoa, wine, incense, silver or salt. But what about copper? Sheep? Deer? Or Fish in general?

 

[Zaarin]

Doesn't stop drinking: https://www.diffordsguide.com/encyclopedia/463/bws/the-worlds-best-selling-spirits

And to not completely derail the thread: it's not really about cities that make civs less or more likely, but the interaction with resources. Only pantheons give bonuses to certain resources. Is there any leader/civ coming to mind that could get a big bonus from a certain single resource and thus starts always next to it? The easy to associate quarries are already used by a pantheon and so are most luxuries like cocoa, wine, incense, silver or salt. But what about copper? Sheep? Deer? Or Fish in general?

My proposed bonus for the Powhatan was a bonus to food from bonus resources that provide food, and that could easily be transferred to the Iroquois or some other tribe. A bonus to some combination of production/gold/culture/faith from mines would be perfect for Gaul, as the Gauls were known for the superb craftsmanship with metal. Some bonus related to incense would make sense for a very unlikely Old South Arabian civ. A bonus related to Silver (and Gold, should it appear) would make sense for the Inca--or more generically mines over luxury resources, since the Inca also had Salt mines. A bonus related to Jade could make sense for the Maya.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Doesn't stop drinking: https://www.diffordsguide.com/encyclopedia/463/bws/the-worlds-best-selling-spirits

And to not completely derail the thread: it's not really about cities that make civs less or more likely, but the interaction with resources. Only pantheons give bonuses to certain resources. Is there any leader/civ coming to mind that could get a big bonus from a certain single resource and thus starts always next to it? The easy to associate quarries are already used by a pantheon and so are most luxuries like cocoa, wine, incense, silver or salt. But what about copper? Sheep? Deer? Or Fish in general?

Just off the top of my head:

Copper - is the metal ore associated archeologically with the fabled King Solomon's Mines, so Israel?
Sheep - the ubiquitous flock tenders out here in the American west have a heavy representation of Basques - and a Basque Civ would, I think, be a First in Civ games even among the Modded Civ's.
Deer - the only explicit group I can associate would be the Lapp/Finnish reindeer followers - a different way to go with Finland, who is usually associated (at least among the Modded Finn Civs in Civs V and VI) with Mannerheim and modern Finland.
Fish - Everybody near a body of water bigger than a puddle fishes and has fished going back to well before the Start of Game in 4000 BCE. Rather than a specific Civ, then, the number of fishing boats active could/should give Bonuses for the 'nautical' Techs and Civics, indicating a larger pool of sea-going expertise in the Civ. That would also give a real reason for Cis on the coast to exploit Fish resources to get the bonuses/eurekas.

 

[Zaarin]

Copper - is the metal ore associated archeologically with the fabled King Solomon's Mines, so Israel?
Sheep - the ubiquitous flock tenders out here in the American west have a heavy representation of Basques - and a Basque Civ would, I think, be a First in Civ games even among the Modded Civ's.

Given the ubiquitous shepherding metaphors in the Bible, I was actually thinking faith and culture from Sheep would be an innovative design for Israel.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Hittites are an excellent candidate for extra yields from Mines. So are Mali.

The obvious answer for Pastures are already in the game (Zulu), without a bonus to pastures :-/ Ireland are well known for their husbandry, less so for their agriculture and would be a decent civ for such a bonus.

Camps: any society that sustains or has sustained a heavy hunter/gathered economy: Any of the Great Planes tribes would work here

Fishing boats: Inuit or Iceland

Personally I feel like most of these are excellent bonuses to hand out to minor civs and city states as suze bonuses, rather than CUAs and LUAs.

 

[Guandao]

Camps: any society that sustains or has sustained a heavy hunter/gathered economy: Any of the Great Planes tribes would work here

Great Planes tribes or Great Plains tribes?
I'm not really looking forward to Great Plains Indians being added to Civ6.......people seem to think that all Native Americans lived a lifestyle like them. Hunting buffalo...living in tipis....wearing feather bonnets.....

 

[Lord Lakely]

Great Plains Civs could work well with some of the mechanics present in the game that have been relatively untouched yet.

- My vision of the Lakota includes:

-additional combat strength from tile appeal + fewer restrictions for National Parks (nb the prayer I linked is Navajo but research indicates the Lakota also have their own version)

- a Support UU who reflects a portion of the damage its escort takes back at the attacker,

- An ability that allows their units to survive their first killing blow with one HP left.

Oh and they get Sweat Lodges/Inipis which counts as a tipi I guess, but if this XPac has an environmental theme, it would well with the new mechanics (increasing health if a building or increasing beauty if a tile improvement, more if next to a camp)

Granted my idea is super gimmicky in itself, but honestly i don't give a *bleep*, I want them in ^__^