Civs - thinking out of the box

[vinstafresh]

Excellent ideas, good research!

 

[Xineoph]

What units or wonders would Israel have? Solomon's temple? (or would that be better off as a Jewish religion-specific building?)

Well there are tons of flavor units, but for specific building hmm....

The Holy Temple is one and another I suppose is the Sanhedrin.

The latter would probably reduce corruption or something as it was a form of central authority and contained the 71 greatest rabbis of the time. It has not much like the Holy Temple been reestablished due to some semantics and stuff.

 

[zafyro]

That about basques being there at the first step might be not so good idea. I´d start with Tartesos. Tarraconesis was one of the three provinces of the roman empire in the peninsula [Hispania Tarraconensis, Hispania Baetica and Lusitania] and this namig is of the late empire as before conquering and settling the whole peninsula it was refered as Hispania Ulterior and Hispania Citerior, so Hispania would fit better unless you feel is too close to spain. Next you choose aragon but it would be as choosable Castilla [Castille] as it was the bigger of the two kingdoms that merged with the marriage of the Catholic Monarchs [Reyes Catolicos], and it's quite correct to call it Spain from there as it was the beggining of the state of spain, but i'd chage it to spanish empire just after the 5 to reflect the diference with the past and incoming eras. So, mi sugestion:

Note the inclusion of the inquisition wonder and the correction on Cortés name. Also, The galleon unit I guess is about the treasure fleet so it should be located AFTER Cortés. The inquisitor should be about cleaning religion influence, and the treasure galleon should be a slower but more powerfull galleon.

Spain
1 -Tartesos
2 -Hispania
3 -Visigoths
4 -Castille (Inquisitor, Inquisition Wonder)
5 -Spain (Conquistador unit, Cortés wonder)
6 -Spanish empire (Treasure Galleon unit)
7+ -Spain (guerilla unit)

 

[zafyro]

also note that england civilization should have a privateer special unit (PIRATES)

 

[HypnosTene]

Actually you've articulated an old idea of mine. I'd love to see the game be populated by, as the name implies, Civilizations, and not nation states as it is usually the case. Your project is relatively similar. If I find the time before my trip to Rome next week, I'll try to present my version.

Anyhow, good work, even if your historical data can get quite inaccurate. The only real problem I see, is that you use a geographical criterium to determine civ stages. When one thinks about all the migrations in world history...

Regarding my own country:

1) Ancient (4000BC-1000BC)
2) Classical (1000BC-500AD)
3) Mediaeval (500AD-1250AD)
4) Gunpowder (1250AD-1500AD)
5) Enlightenment (1500AD-1750AD)
6) Industrial (1750AD-1875AD)
7) Electric (1875AD-1950AD)
8a) Atomic (1950AD-2000AD)


Poland
1 -Sarmatia (Sarmatian cavalry unit)
2 -Goths (Gothic raider unit)
---------------- the first two are a bugger for most european nations really
3 - Early Medieval Poland
4 - Poland
5 - Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (hussar UU, food production bonuses ;p)
6 - we were MIA at the time, no idea now to solve it.
7+ -Poland (Solidarity wonder)

One would also need to modify Ukraine with it's Polish and Russian historicala background

 

[terentius]

The only real problem I see, is that you use a geographical criterium to determine civ stages. When one thinks about all the migrations in world history...

I don't know how else I could reasonably divide the civs up, other than geographically. I don't think it's possible (or even desirable) to base civs on other means - ethnic 'purity', language groups, religion - since these all change as well. While the people may change, if you can set up a loose (even if arbitary) set of borders for your civ, all that remains is to look at the history of what went on there.

I'd really like to see what ideas you came up with!

cheers.

t

 

[terentius]

What about the Duchy of Warsaw? Wasn't that one of the post-Napoleonic areas?

 

[terentius]

Just thinking about more contemporary tech that could be included (in mods? CIV-5?):
* Remote Drones (no effect on war morale)

* leave SDI until much later (we don't have even have successful proof-of-principle tests missile shields yet, let alone satellite lasers!)

* any country with the internet has access to every discovery made by any nation; allows nations to pool resources for research

* just wondering about nukes: they may act as a force for good in diplomacy, since who in their right mind would want to attack a nuclear power (especially one that may be a little-shall we say 'unstable'?)

I know I've said I'm not keen on future tech in a historical game, but there could be stealth ships and remote-controlled interceptor/destroyers soon.

What do others think?

 

[Dominico]

Really nice post. I dont like to pick holes in it but you gave Europe the Hind helicopter, its Russian.

Also, i would give Rome the Latins to start with, i think this would suit more then etruscans who i think they fought with. I may be wrong, my brains not working at this hour... lol

 

[G Julius Caesar]

Not quite sure what you mean with the eras. I commend the obvious effort you have put in to this idea however.

Are you suggesting fixed eras? (You list them all with start and end datesand I read through your posts but missed if you meant something else.)
Would the unique civ changes happen then? In Civ 4 you cannot say when the classical era will begin - it happens whenever you get round to researching a particular set of techs (pale blue, green?) I like that because it will happen at different times.

I'd like not to be stuck with say Alexander all through out history - and be able to pick a different leader with different traits for different times. Is that what you mean?

 

[terentius]

Dominico:
'Really nice post. I dont like to pick holes in it but you gave Europe the Hind
helicopter, its Russian'

True, but I can't think of any other heli that could apply to a European art set.

Gaius Julius:
'Not quite sure what you mean with the eras. I commend the obvious effort you have put in to this idea however.'

Thank you! I've been having some second thoughts about aspects of it; maybe streamline the eras a bit, so it isn't so... overwhelming.

'...Are you suggesting fixed eras?'

Not really, I was just trying to find approximate real-history cut-off points. The idea of the eras really came from Civ 3 when you had the Mayans and Aztecs as distinct civs. I reckon it would make more sense to have them both part of the same civ. Likewise, Greece and Byzantium, Iroquois and the USA. Only China, India and Egypt have really lasted as distinct civs through the whole of history (and even then, with qualifications attached). Other countries have changed periodically. No country has only one Golden age; it has several, but in different guises (comprising, say, Sumeria, Babylon, Mesopotamia and Iraq? Or Olmec, Maya, Aztec, New Spain and Mexico? Or Gaul, Franks, Normans, France, French Republic?).

'...I'd like not to be stuck with say Alexander all through out history - and be able to pick a different leader with different traits for different times. Is that what you mean?'

Precisely! let each 'flavour' change according to what era the civ has risen to. Why choose between (with Warlords) Elizabeth, Victoria and Churchill when you can have all three (with Boudicca thrown in -and yes, I know that everyone has their own way of spelling her name! )

This means each civ can have more than one unique unit or unique wonders (Carthage could have war elephants in classical times and French Legionaries in Enlightenment with Vandals and/or Aloravid/Almohads in between; maybe Phoenecian warships in Ancient times?).

The idea is to get people (modders, developers, whoever) to stop looking at only one tiny aspect of a nation's history (such as the slightly obsessive WW2 Germany threads that have been cropping up - what about Arminius' Alemanni, or the Holy Roman Empire, or Prussia?).

That's my thoughts for now...

 

[G Julius Caesar]

Gaius Julius:
'Not quite sure what you mean with the eras. I commend the obvious effort you have put in to this idea however.'

Thank you! I've been having some second thoughts about aspects of it; maybe streamline the eras a bit, so it isn't so... overwhelming.

'...Are you suggesting fixed eras?'

Not really, I was just trying to find approximate real-history cut-off points. The idea of the eras really came from Civ 3 when you had the Mayans and Aztecs as distinct civs. I reckon it would make more sense to have them both part of the same civ. Likewise, Greece and Byzantium, Iroquois and the USA. Only China, India and Egypt have really lasted as distinct civs through the whole of history (and even then, with qualifications attached). Other countries have changed periodically. No country has only one Golden age; it has several, but in different guises (comprising, say, Sumeria, Babylon, Mesopotamia and Iraq? Or Olmec, Maya, Aztec, New Spain and Mexico? Or Gaul, Franks, Normans, France, French Republic?).

'...I'd like not to be stuck with say Alexander all through out history - and be able to pick a different leader with different traits for different times. Is that what you mean?'

Precisely! let each 'flavour' change according to what era the civ has risen to. Why choose between (with Warlords) Elizabeth, Victoria and Churchill when you can have all three (with Boudicca thrown in -and yes, I know that everyone has their own way of spelling her name! )

This means each civ can have more than one unique unit or unique wonders (Carthage could have war elephants in classical times and French Legionaries in Enlightenment with Vandals and/or Aloravid/Almohads in between; maybe Phoenecian warships in Ancient times?).

The idea is to get people (modders, developers, whoever) to stop looking at only one tiny aspect of a nation's history (such as the slightly obsessive WW2 Germany threads that have been cropping up - what about Arminius' Alemanni, or the Holy Roman Empire, or Prussia?).

That's my throughts for now...

Yeah, I see what you mean now. I quite agree with it. Would be interested in seeing such an idea progress.

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

Canada
1 -Inuit
2 -Esquimaux
3 -Thule (whale hunter unit)
4 -Algonquin
5 -Quebec
6 -Hudson Bay (Hudson Bay Company wonder)
7+ -Canada (Mountie unit, Avro nuclear bomber unit)

"Esquimaux", Thule and Inuit are essentially the same group.
Hudson Bay Company was never a civ of any kind, always loyal to the British government.
The Avro Arrow wasn't a nuclear bomber.

 

[terentius]

I've edited the thread so that it's just the latest ideas showing, not the old ones...)

 

[terentius]

I figured it was probably getting a bit confusing having two sets of the same idea cropping up.

 

[terentius]

Apologies to everyone who responded to the original set of suggestions, but your ideas have (mostly) been incorporated into the new lot, now on page 1.

 

[terentius]

This is still a work in progress, so dependiong on feedback, I'll probably continue tweaking the suggestions for as long as people are still interested...

 

[terentius]

BTW, how do you delete old posts?

 

[terentius]

(suggestions incorporated into page 1)

 

[terentius]

(suggestions incorporated into page 1)