Civvi will have half the amount of techs compared to Civ 5

[Mobfire]

Plus the tech tree can be shaved down pretty easily by merging late-game techs. Especially in the Information and Atomic era, so many techs gave only one or two things, which dragged research on quite a bit. I would certainly appreciate refinement of that area of the tree.

 

[Txurce]

Fewer techs definitely means longer research times. Especially with the new bonus system that speeds up research. They would have to do this to maintain reasonable game length.

Not if there are two or three "tech" trees that you have to work your way through. The speed could be roughly the same, in this case.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Research times will be more, but with 2 trees to research, the breakthroughs will come more often than techs in previous games. On the other hand, they may come often if we compare them with tech+policy events in Civ5.

 

[kaspergm]

Not if there are two or three "tech" trees that you have to work your way through. The speed could be roughly the same, in this case.

Not when the two trees can be "researched" simultaneously, no? Then it'll still only take half time to get through them both.

I really hope they get the balancing right with regards to the research time. I have some concerns regarding the "Eureka" moments - it sounds like a great idea on paper, but it seems to me that many of the things you need to do are very generic - Quill also mentions this in the video, many of the things that trigger an Eureka moment are things you'll do anyway (meet another civ? Duh!) which will potentially kill the purpose of the whole system. Not only can it add a lot of micromanagement (switching back and forth through tech to have the right one on research when the Eureka moment happens) it also sounds like it can prompt you to do the exact same actions in the same order every game to maximize your Eureka boosts.

 

[Stilgar08]

Not when the two trees can be "researched" simultaneously, no? Then it'll still only take half time to get through them both.

I really hope they get the balancing right with regards to the research time. I have some concerns regarding the "Eureka" moments - it sounds like a great idea on paper, but it seems to me that many of the things you need to do are very generic - Quill also mentions this in the video, many of the things that trigger an Eureka moment are things you'll do anyway (meet another civ? Duh!) which will potentially kill the purpose of the whole system. Not only can it add a lot of micromanagement (switching back and forth through tech to have the right one on research when the Eureka moment happens) it also sounds like it can prompt you to do the exact same actions in the same order every game to maximize your Eureka boosts.

as I qouted on the last page it seems, that although the tech tree is cut you get around +40 more areas of research through new elements we not yet know in the "civics-tree". So even if it takes less time (I doubt it will be half the time all the time) you have far more fields of research if you wanna go through the whole tree...

Well since the Eureka moments are boosts you don't NEED to pay too much attention to them. I would assume furthermore that the boost applies also on techs you currently aren't researching. The writing Eureka boost will happen even if you research Animal husbandry at the moment. And since it's not +xbeakers but +50% towards that tech it maybe even better if you aren't researching it at the moment... And for the Min/Maximizers and Deity-players its almost always micromanagement.

just found this part in a Dennis Shirk interview. I read it as "You're encouraged to go on that path you are already on but you can do different stuff anyways".

When I put my first city down as China, I could already imagine how it would be built up, because it's got mountains on one side and I immediately got my boost to sailing as well, by being on the coast – are all of these tech boosts known straight away, they're never hidden?

No, they’re never hidden, and what's nice is that influences how you play. If you're playing a certain way it actually rewards you to keep playing that way if you want, or you can change direction. If you're playing a heavy military game and you're clearing barbarian camps and conquering stuff you're most likely earning boosts to more similar tech further down the line because it's what you're already doing, so it feels very real-world because it's reinforcing what you're already doing.

 

[kaspergm]

as I qouted on the last page it seems, that although the tech tree is cut you get around +40 more areas of research through new elements we not yet know in the "civics-tree". So even if it takes less time (I doubt it will be half the time all the time) you have far more fields of research if you wanna go through the whole tree...

But the civics tree is not a tech tree. The civics tree is a culture tree. You unlock civics through culture, not science, and as such the civics tree has no direct influence on your progress through the tech tree. It's not that you research either a tech or a civic at any given time; you'll research a tech and a civic at the same time.

 

[Stilgar08]

But the civics tree is not a tech tree. The civics tree is a culture tree. You unlock civics through culture, not science, and as such the civics tree has no direct influence on your progress through the tech tree. It's not that you research either a tech or a civic at any given time; you'll research a tech and a civic at the same time.

right. In regards of pure technology there's less and beakers are not culture. But the dependency on tech-advance seems to decrease significantly. I read somewhere (I think it was Dennis Shirk again) that you might not have the latest units and techs if you go wide but can overcome that backwardness with a high advancement in the culture-tree. So once again it's about decision:
Do I need to have tech-lead in every game? (For Scientific victory that's for sure ) Is it a major problem if I fall behind too much? Or am I ok with having civics at hand supporting my military production/defensive abilities/society advancements while being backwards in other areas?

If Firaxis can manage to make this choice dependent on the development of each single game, it's a winner.

To me advancing in the civics-tree (don't know how to call it) is as much desirable as advancing in technology... 2 sides of one medal.

and concerning your point that

you'll research a tech and a civic at the same time.

we have to look at total numbers, which is +40 total areas (tech and civics-tree combined), not minus 50% as was assumed when opening this thread. So tech-advancement will significantly slow down, but I think it's a chance; how fast do ages go in CiV? "I wanna enjoy every era" simply wasn't possible due to fast adavancement...
In the end it will be a question of balance. As usual...

 

[kaspergm]

...and concerning your point that we have to look at total numbers, which is +40 total areas (tech and civics-tree combined), not minus 50% as was assumed when opening this thread.

That depends on what we're discussing. One concern being voiced here is that the game will be much shorter if research takes same time as now. That is fact. No matter whether there is a civic tree or not, if you have only half the number of techs and it takes same number of turns to research each of them, then it will take only half the number of turns to research them all.

 

[Cerilis]

That depends on what we're discussing. One concern being voiced here is that the game will be much shorter if research takes same time as now. That is fact. No matter whether there is a civic tree or not, if you have only half the number of techs and it takes same number of turns to research each of them, then it will take only half the number of turns to research them all.

That only holds true though as long as you can obtain the same number of beakers along the same span of a game.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Judging from Quill18's video, a lot of the "techs" are being shifted into Civics-which advance in much the same way as techs do.

Which brings up the question, do civics also get Eureka bonuses like techs do?

 

[Plus Ultra]

Which brings up the question, do civics also get Eureka bonuses like techs do?

Yes. Look closely at the Gameplay videos.

Early Empire (Civic tree) = Eureka: Reach 6 Pop

 

[Amrunril]

There seems to be a lot of disagreement/confusion about what having two tech trees will mean in terms of research speed. Assuming the game has the same target length (and it may be a bit shorter, Civ V did get longer with BNW), having slightly more than half as many techs should mean you'll finish researching a tech slightly more than half as often. However, with two different trees, you should complete a tech or "culture tech" just as often as you would in Civ V.

Not when the two trees can be "researched" simultaneously, no? Then it'll still only take half time to get through them both.

I really hope they get the balancing right with regards to the research time. I have some concerns regarding the "Eureka" moments - it sounds like a great idea on paper, but it seems to me that many of the things you need to do are very generic - Quill also mentions this in the video, many of the things that trigger an Eureka moment are things you'll do anyway (meet another civ? Duh!) which will potentially kill the purpose of the whole system. Not only can it add a lot of micromanagement (switching back and forth through tech to have the right one on research when the Eureka moment happens) it also sounds like it can prompt you to do the exact same actions in the same order every game to maximize your Eureka boosts.

I doubt that the balancing for Eureka moments will be right at release, but I think it will be the novelty that's an issue as opposed to anything inherently difficult or problematic about balancing the mechanic.

Even if the things that trigger Eureka moments are things that happen more or less automatically, they may require focused effort or favorable conditions to complete early enough to gain the research bonus. As for the micromanagement, I don't know if this will be the case, but ideally the Eureka moments would trigger for any tech you have access to, not just the one you are actively researching.

 

[Vlado55]

I have been told by the Reddit editor that actually that was a misinformation and that CIV VI will have at least 60+ technologies

 

[chaosprophet]

I have been told by the Reddit editor that actually that was a misinformation and that CIV VI will have at least 60+ technologies

That agrees with the info Stilgar08 posted a bit earlier, that only about a dozen techs were transferred from the tech tree to the civics tree. And was CiV had 81 techs (including "future tech"), that means it should still have over 60.

 

[AriochIV]

The Civics tree IS a technology tree; you can advance to the next age through Civics instead of Science. This is a Dennis Shirk quote from the PCGamesN interview:

Ed wanted to branch that out. If you're that culture player, the more culture you have, the further down the civics tree you're going, instead of going down the tech tree – you're still going through the eras. What you have as the civics player is the power of governments and policies. These give you a whole lot of flexibility against a technological and superior neighbour. So, if he's going in with tanks, you're going to slot in different policies that produce a better defence and then you'll be able to produce units faster. You might have lower tech units but you'll have a lot more of them. You're going to maybe slot in a policy that reduces your unit maintenance by half so you can have a bigger army even though it's lower tech.

So you can impress the world by having a super advanced government system. So it’s just kind of a parallel universe for you to live in as a culture player, to be able to conquer and win the game and still advance through the ages. You're not gonna be there with your spearmen when they're coming in with infantry, or maybe you will, there’s still a possibility of that. But we wanted to make that alternate path. A Science player is never going to have that many policies or an advanced government to allow him to slot more policies in, while you're going to have more more city-state friends as a result because there are a lot of powerful city state policies. You'll have a lot more allies, while he’s busy conquering and getting everyone angry with him.

 

[m15a]

I personally can't wait to try out extremely imbalanced games with spearmen in a culturally advanced civ or having mechas without having established a code of laws. Cool!

 

[kaspergm]

The Civics tree IS a technology tree; you can advance to the next age through Civics instead of Science. This is a Dennis Shirk quote from the PCGamesN interview:

Whether it triggers new age or not is besides the point I was discussing, the point was whether or not the reduced number of [science] techs will potentially bring you through the tree faster. And the answer to that is still potentially yes, although it (obviously) all comes down to how they balance beaker cost vs. beaker yields compared to Civ5.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

We should probably call the two trees something else when talking about them together. There aren't two tech trees. There's a technology tree and a cultural advancement tree that functions almost identically to the tech tree but uses culture.
Saying ' the two tech trees' might be accurate in describing function but it's just going to make things confusing.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[AriochIV]

Whether it triggers new age or not is besides the point I was discussing, the point was whether or not the reduced number of [science] techs will potentially bring you through the tree faster. And the answer to that is still potentially yes, although it (obviously) all comes down to how they balance beaker cost vs. beaker yields compared to Civ5.

As you just said, the rate at which you move through the tree has nothing to do with number of techs, it has to do with how they balance the tech costs.

We should probably call the two trees something else when talking about them together. There aren't two tech trees. There's a technology tree and a cultural advancement tree that functions almost identically to the tech tree but uses culture. Saying ' the two tech trees' might be accurate in describing function but it's just going to make things confusing.

If you can think of a better way to say it that doesn't require an entire sentence, I'm all ears.

 

[m15a]

If you can think of a better way to say it that doesn't require an entire sentence, I'm all ears.

Tech Tree and Civics Tree. The similarity between them is suggested by the shared use of "tree". (Yes, I know that they are probably not mathematical trees, but that's the Civ-specific terminology.)