[NFP] Classical Era Policy Elimination Thread

[Leucarum]

Diplomatic League (20)
Limes (4)
Natural Philosophy (23)
Raid (16)
Scripture (24)
Veterancy (21)

Limes (7-3) is a card I do use. It can save a bunch of production and I frequently want it slotted in if I am building some defences. But I rarely keep it in for long which leads me to downvote it and upvote a card I will keep on all game if it is relevant to my victory type Scripture (23+1). The double adjacency bonuses are really important and while I think Natural Philosophy is the better of the two I voted for it last time so I guess scripture gets to take the lead for now?

 

[bengalryan9]

Diplomatic League (17) (20-3) Normally I wouldn't downvote twice, but this just seems ridiculously overrated to me. Did you get the first meeting bonus envoy with nearby city states? This card will do nothing for them, then. Did you accidentally complete an early quest for a CS? This card will do nothing for them. Even for city states where you *can* take advantage of this bonus you'll just slot the card for one turn and then get no benefit from it... any turn after the first turn it's slotted it's typically wasted, and that's before the AI inevitably conquers a bunch of CS's that have your free envoys anyways. I'm not saying it's not useful, but it's way too high here compared to every other card left here IMO.
Limes (5) (4+1) You will slot this for more than a turn at a time. I find myself switching it in and out pretty frequently through the game, and it's extremely beneficial early on when the AI is likely to be it's most aggressive.
Natural Philosophy (23)
Raid (16)
Scripture (24)
Veterancy (21)

 

[OzzyKP]

Diplomatic League (17)
Limes (6) (5+1) No doubt too late to save this, but this is a policy I always use. 100% production is huge and very useful especially for new, little cities that haven't been developed yet. Before I can get workers there to boost their yields, they can at least put up walls to keep them safe. I know it isn't a policy you use long term, but I think that's an argument in this policy's favor. You can get full benefit from it for only having it up for 10 turns then use something else. That actually makes it more useful/important of a policy. Like Diplomatic League. Switch it on and off when you need it.
Natural Philosophy (23)
Raid (13) (16-3) I very rarely use this policy. Especially this early in the game where the enemy doesn't have as much developed infrastructure to pillage. Unless I'm playing Norway or it is a key part of my strategy I never use it.
Scripture (24)
Veterancy (21)

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Diplomatic League (14) (17-3)
Limes (6) I don't really use this, but I can see its merits. Stay strong, Limes! I'm rooting for you to take 5th place... somehow.
Natural Philosophy (24) (23+1)
Raid (13)
Scripture (24)
Veterancy (21)

Diplomatic League: What @bengalryan9 said.

Natural Philosophy: +100% Adjacency Bonuses are great, but I see Science more of a useful Yield than Faith, so I value this more than Scripture.

 

[OzzyKP]

Raid should be at 13, btw.

 

[AntSou]

Diplomatic League (11) (14 - 3)
Limes (7) (6 + 1)
Natural Philosophy (24)
Raid (13)
Scripture (24)
Veterancy (21)

I use all these cards. I do tend to play smaller maps so although I play Diplomatic League essentially in every game, its use tends to be pretty limited. Being able to speed up production of defensive buildings, on the other hand, is pretty handy, especially if you play multiplayer or hotseat. Limes saves a ton of production and turns and secures your territory from incursions. Particularly useful for Civs like Gaul and Vietnam with bonuses to Ranged Defences and Encampments*.

* Ranged Attacks require Walls in the city.

 

[tedhebert]

Diplomatic League (11)
Limes (7)
Natural Philosophy (24)
Raid (10) (13-3) not useful if not playing aggressive.
Scripture (24)
Veterancy (22) (21+1) this card is slotted almost every game. It has changed my habits, now very much more prone to building harbors than CH, unless playing pangea maps

 

[Atlas627]

Diplomatic League (11 + 1 = 12) I keep seeing arguments about cards that are only useful for one turn being *bad*, but that is a *strength*! Time your civic unlocks so you're only wasting a couple turns max and they shine by being so effective on their one turn that they are worth more than any other card would've been for that short duration.
Limes (7 - 3 = 4) +100% in my border cities tends not to be much. I could run Urban Planning and get that much sometimes, plus it would give it to all the other struggling cities too.
Natural Philosophy (24)
Raid (10)
Scripture (24)
Veterancy (22)

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Diplomatic League (12-3=9) not because it's not good, but because they're all good at this point.
Limes (4+1=5) Have not really ever done much with this. But in my current game I'm using it to play with the new Monarchy and it's probably better than it was. See what I did with the color there?
Natural Philosophy (24)
Raid (10)
Scripture (24)
Veterancy (22)

 

[lilnev!]

How much would I miss it if it were removed from the game?

Diplomatic League (9)
Limes (2) (5-3) I only build a few walls, typically 1 - 3. I would hardly miss this card.
Natural Philosophy (25) (24+1) While the ancient era is dominated by production concerns, the classical requires a major science investment, or I'll fall too far behind. I would lose a lot more games without this card.
Raid (10)
Scripture (24)
Veterancy (22)

 

[Josephias]

Diplomatic League (6)
Limes (2)
Natural Philosophy (26)
Raid (10)
Scripture (24)
Veterancy (22)

Diplomatic League (9-3). This is a card that I like a lot and can net you 10+ envoys, depending on map size, but (IMHO) is better used few times, when you have several envoys available.
Note I agree short and powerful slots (i.e Diplomatic League) have to be considered, rightfully and the frequencia you switch on/off these cards is the valuable meter. However, IMHO, this is not a benefit vs cards that provide always (i.e. each and every one and other turn) something valuable (e.g Natural Philosophy/Scripture), because you need to take into account you get zero if you forget to de-slot them. These cards may be however considered higher with regards to cards that need to keep slotted in order to take advantage of specific situations (as Raid or even Limes / Veterancy). Nevertheless, at this point I feel Diplomatic League is in the right spot. (It may be argued Raid can be used as-much one shot as DL, by setting up everithing you need to be pillaged in a single turn, and both Limes and Veterancy production benefits are important).

Natural Philosophy (25+1): I was tempted to skip again Natural Philosophy/Scripture and go for Veterancy in the upvote, but I think it being at 22 is high enough. And I'm not going to match Scripture with Natural Philosophy as, in the end, as far as faith is an important currency now, and WE may add production, science is key to progressing to new yields, buildings and improvements (and stronger units), so it can be argued it is the most versatile benefit. TBH, I've to say I do not slot this card as much as I should, maybe because its benefit is so obvious that seems boring.

 

[hhhhhh]

Diplomatic League (7)
Limes (2)
Natural Philosophy (26)
Raid (10)
Scripture (21)
Veterancy (22)

Diplomatic League (6+1) If you use this smartly you got some easy suzerainty. Which enables a lot of possibilities like levying units etc. It's a bit advanced to use it wisely though. It's not a card that you just keep it on and benefit from it. It takes some micromanagement (and you need to have a strong culture output).
Scripture (24-3) How many holy site do people build? And what are the total benefit of faith you get from this? I only use this when I get that holy site adj also produces science.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Diplomatic League (7)
Limes (3)
Natural Philosophy (26)
Raid (10)
Scripture (18)
Veterancy (22)

Limes 3 (2+1): Walls aren't just for defence. They provide housing with Monarchy (the easiest T2 government to reach) and they provide tourism as well, If you're going for a culture victory you want all three levels of walls in every city. They make walls buildable in low production cities, and in high production cities you can bang them out in a couple of turns.

Scripture 18 (21-3): Yes, it's very powerful, but only in certain circumstances. If you're Russia and you have a high adjacency holy sites, if you have work ethic, if you have Hildegard....otherwise you're not going to waste a precious Economic slot on it.

 

[kryat]

Diplomatic League (7)
Limes (3)
Natural Philosophy (26)
Raid (7) (10-3)
Scripture (18)
Veterancy (23) (22+1)

Veterancy - I like this card. It helps you get arguably the best building in the game (another elimination thread?) - the lighthouse. Lighthouses are powerful sources of food, housing, and gold, and I suppose experience.

Raid - It’s a powerful card for sure, but I don’t often use it. Raiding just doesn’t seem like a useful tool unless you’re Norway, and even then, you might be better off with a different red card until you’re ready to pillage.

 

[TCBB]

Diplomatic League (7)
Limes (0) ELIMINATED.
Natural Philosophy (27) (26+1)
Raid (7)
Scripture (18)
Veterancy (23)

Short vote today: upvote for Natural Philosophy, because it’s clearly the best and I have no strong opinions about the others. Downvote for Limes because I don’t build walls that often, plus, it can be offset by Valletta or that one world Congress motion that *always* seems to come up in the medieval era.

 

[Baigan]

Diplomatic League (4)
Natural Philosophy (27)
Raid (7)
Scripture (18)
Veterancy (24)

Veterancy (23+1): There's a midgame hump where you've settled your cities and trained your army, now you just need to get your infrastructure squared away. Getting over that hump quickly is important because after that you can finally start snowballing and overtake the AI's early lead. Veterancy is the only card that directly helps get you over that hump. Natural Philosophy is fantastic but only after your Campuses are built.
Diplomatic League (7-3): Tough choice between this and Raid. Diplomatic League gets used every game, unlike Raid, but Raid ultimately has a higher ceiling.

 

[Francel]

Diplomatic League (4)
Natural Philosophy (24) (27-3) - I'm going to be edgy and downvote natural philosophy. I don't think it's bad, but that it's not clearly superior to scripture. They should be closer together. I think that natural philosophy finishing ahead reflects bias in favor of science victory over religious victory. RV is just as valid a win condition. Apart from RV, spreading religion provides direct benefits that you can tailor to your preferences. For example, I haven't crunched the numbers, but I can imagine cross cultural dialogue providing science at least on par with the benefits of natural philosophy, if your religion spreads a decent amount.

Scripture boost early faith generation when it is most needed - missionaries are more impactful, apostles are necessary for evangelizing, and great people cost less to patronize. Faith has broad utility as the eras progress, for RV, CV, and great people. I often have scripture slotted not just in the classical era, but the whole game, the whole game.

Let me also talk a bit about adjacency bonuses. IMO it is simply easier to get high adjacency holy sites than campuses, using pantheons and/or natural wonders. Unless you have some banging campuses, the card may not be hugely beneficial. It is worth mentioning again that the holy site can provide not only faith but production. How often have you read that production is king on here? I have seen AI take work ethic zero times in all my games, so you can't miss it either, if you want it. A final nod to the great scientist who converts holy site adjacency into beakers.

Amazing Holy Site:

Spoiler :

Raid (7)
Scripture (19) (18+1) - See above - voting for greater parity.
Veterancy (24)

 

[Lamington]

Diplomatic League (4)
Natural Philosophy (24)
Raid (4) 7-3
Scripture (19)
Veterancy (25) 24+1

Raid is definitely only useful on the offensive, and then only in one aspect of pillaging, so it does have limited use.
Veterancy is awesome for getting coastal cities up and running, plus the bonus to encampments is a great addition.

 

[CoconutTank]

Veterancy (26) (25 + 1) Bonus production for Harbors, Encampments, and all of the buildings in said districts is always going to be relevant, and can be relevant over multiple turns.

Diplomatic League (1) (4 - 1) No reason to slot this for more than one turn ever, and I don't want to spend gold on just swapping one policy. If I've gotten to the point where I could finish a civic in 1 turn, I've likely already explored enough to get envoys in every available CS.

Diplomatic League (1)
Natural Philosophy (24)
Raid (4)
Scripture (19)
Veterancy (26)

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Diplomatic League (2)
Natural Philosophy (24)
Raid (1)
Scripture (19)
Veterancy (26)

Raid (4-3=1) - a card I never use, would have had it gone long before this. If you are fighting you want to keep the tiles intact, if you're not fighting it has no use.

Diplomatic League (1+1=2) Lets at these keep this until Raid is gone It's a slot it in for one turn if you can card but can be powerful in right situations.