[NFP] Classical Era Policy Elimination Thread

[greenOak]

Diplomatic League (3) (2+1)
Natural Philosophy (24)
Raid (-2) (1-3) ELIMINATED
Scripture (19)
Veterancy (26)

Diplomatic League (+1) - Envoys are powerful and this card gives you a lot of them. I don’t think the fact that you slot it in for one turn only is a reason to downvote it. This card is important for any good strategy.

Raid (-3) - The card I use least on this list. I may be out to lunch on this one as pillaging is stupid good, but it faces stiff competition from other red cards in war heavy games. Also, pillage yields scale with your tech/civic progress meaning that pillaging is at its strongest after this card is obsolete.

 

[canadamufc]

Diplomatic League (3)
Natural Philosophy (24)
Scripture (20) +1 If Natural Philosophy is the king for science, then this is its equal. Can get you great faith generation and loads of production w/ work ethic
Veterancy (23) -3 Maybe i'm using this wrong, but I don't get the excitement about this. If you are playing on a mainly land map then this doesn't get much value from the harbor bonus most of the time. Also, you practically never build encampments outside of dom victories. Of course this is fantastic if your are playing on archipelago where this is a must have, however unlike the other 3 it's not as consistent.

 

[Sixty_Three]

Diplomatic League (4) (3+1) This policy is the most randomly useful one of the four remaining. In a way it rewards making more effort early on in trying to locate city states. Exploration should be rewarded.
Natural Philosophy (24)
Scripture (17) (20-3) I reckon that boosting faith is less valuable than increasing science...or reducing the production costs of harbour and encampment infrastructure. Military Engineers are worth having even if you’re not a warmonger.
Veterancy (23)

 

[Deadly Dog]

Diplomatic League (4)
Natural Philosophy (21) [24-3]
Scripture (17)
Veterancy (24) [23+1]

Veterancy is my top pick because its used in more of my games. The boost to getting trade routes going earlier is useful all game long. And since Free Inquiry GA is still a good dedication/card if you aren't generating faith, it has a place in making that work.

Natural Philosophy is inconsistent in its power, at least in my games, as early game Campus spam is certainly no longer necessary in many situations, and later game there are other cards to boost science. Plus sometimes my Campuses just have crap adjacency until I can get more districts up.

Scripture perhaps even more powerful situationally but not as often as NP, so to me those 2 cards are often used heavily but overall Veterancy is going to be used in more situations.

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Diplomatic League (4)
Natural Philosophy (22) (21+1)
Scripture (17)
Veterancy (21) (24-3)

Afraid I have the polar opposite opinion. Science is universally useful for every victory type; it gives you military power, it gives you better yields, it gives you better buildings, and all the best wonders in the game are on the tech tree. Natural Philosophy can single-handedly double your science at a crucial point in the game, between turns c.50–100; the AI will typically be making somewhere around 50 to 70 science by that point, and unless you use Natural Philosophy you can easily find yourself falling inextricably behind. And it remains useful all the way until the industrial era, when it finally gets replaced. Should be the clear winner of this thread.

And while I think Veterancy is a super useful card, there are undoubtedly some games where it has little to no use. A worthy second or third place.

 

[JhGf_123]

Diplomatic League (4)
Natural Philosophy (22)
Scripture (18) (17+1)
Veterancy (18) (21-3)

Scripture: this deserves to be second purely on the basis of work ethic, let alone the fact it also gives you a tonne of faith which you can use for monumentality.

Veterancy: my favourite red card, but situationally dependent. I’m playing a Germany game at the moment on pangaea, and I haven’t built a single harbour or encampment.

 

[MrRadar]

Diplomatic League (1) (4-1)
Natural Philosophy (23) (22+1)
Scripture (18)
Veterancy (18)

Diplomatic League (1) (4-1) This card got high enough. It can be very strong, taking you 2/3 of the way to the boost for 2nd tier buildings, instead of 1/3. It may be used for a turn, but its effects last for the rest of the game or until the CS is taken out. And using a card for a turn after micromanaging a situation for lasting effect is a big plus imo.

Natural Philosophy (23) (22+1) Haven’t voted for this yet. Science is nice and doubling early science can give you a critical edge.

 

[AntSou]

Diplomatic League (0) Eliminated
Natural Philosophy (24) (23 + 1)
Scripture (18)
Veterancy (18)

I'm not sure which one I prefer for second place, so I'll just upvote the one I think should take first place.

Raid: I'm surprised to find out people do not raid more aggressively and most seem to do so when going for domination, whereas I tend to do it more often when not going for domination. As long as I have horses and plenty of plains, I'll be raiding a lot. It's an easy way to get a bunch of yields while at the same time slowing down other Civs. Resources spent on Light Cavalry and Privateers means you can't really spend it on units to take cities, but I'm not trying to so it's fine. Usually I'll just wait for two nearby Civs to be at war then choose one to raid. Grievances are also minimal. Plus you get to plunder trader units and grab workers more often, even settlers.

Scripture: this deserves to be second purely on the basis of work ethic

I disagree. It's surely something in its favour, but you're way too dependent on a single belief, plus you can't always guarantee the adjacencies will be substantial.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Natural Philosophy (25) (24 + 1)
Scripture (15) (18-3)
Veterancy (18)

Natural Philosophy: Haha required district go brrr

Scripture: Heh... um... Ethiopia go brr? Maybe? Dance of the Aurora + Work Ethic Lavra, I guess? This one is only really helpful if you build Holy Sites, which isn't a requirement. Faith is nice, but you don't need it to progress.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Natural Philosophy (24)
Scripture (18)
Veterancy (18)

All three of these cards are situational and can be powerful or useless depending on what you are doing!

Philosophy can single-handedly double your science at a crucial point in the game, between turns c.50–100

In that time frame I *might* have one Campus up, if I'm going religion I'll have 2 or 3 Holy Sites otherwise I'm likely to have some mixture of Encampments and Harbors.

the AI will typically be making somewhere around 50 to 70 science by that point

I guess that depends on the level you are playing at - in my current game on turn 53 the best AI is on 9!!

Natural Philosophy (25-1 = 24)
Scripture (15+3 = 18)

 

[AntSou]

Natural Philosophy (25-1 = 24)
Scripture (15+3 = 18)

lol, no
---

Edit: editing in case @Noble Zarkon doesn't notice the mistake on time.

Natural Philosophy (22) (25 - 3)
Scripture (16) (15 + 1)
Veterancy (18)

 

[Leucarum]

Natural Philosophy (23)
Scripture (16)
Veterancy (15)

There's some interesting arguments being made but they sound a little bit like being contrary for contrariness' sake. Science is king in this game (Natural Philosophy 22+1). Harbours and encampments are not (Veterancy 18-3). Not saying veterancy is bad just that there is a clear hierarchy among these three. A lot of straws seem to be getting desperately grasped by people to make a counter argument...

I do also want to say congrats to whoever came up with the concept for this elimination thread series. Inspired choice.

 

[Vargas1]

Natural Philosophy (20)
Scripture (16)
Veterancy (16)

All three are great cards that I slot for a good portion of most games. I'm downvoting Natural Philosophy only because in many games, it kicks in later for me than the others - because campuses are so important, I often will build my first few campuses without worrying too much about locating a great adjacency - I just want to get the science and start putting the buildings in. Only once I expand further do I start settling specifically with campus adjacency in mind at times. Veterancy to me is one of the best cards in the game from any era - as far as I'm aware it's the only policy card that boosts building production, and it does it within two different districts. Including, as others have mentioned, what may be the single best building in the game (lighthouse). On top of that, it's a military card, which for me has considerably less competition from other cards.

 

[tedhebert]

Natural Philosophy (21) (20+1) No new comment to add here
Scripture (13) (16-3) Surprised to see this card score so well. Faith is less universally important than science or production in my life... Ah well, maybe I'll revisit this one then...
Veterancy (16)

 

[bengalryan9]

Natural Philosophy (22) (21+1)
Scripture (13)
Veterancy (13) (16-3)

Scripture may have the higher ceiling when it comes to potential but it also has a lower floor than natural philosophy, which is almost always useful while scripture is not. I'd still put both ahead of Veterancy (which I do use quite often) just because it this point in the game I personally think the yields are more useful than +30% production on a couple of districts.

 

[Equilin]

Natural Philosophy (23) (22+1)
Scripture (10) (13-3)
Veterancy (13)

To actually get a lot out of Scripture, I'll need 1) high holy site adjacency, which means either luck or less luck+adjacency pantheon and 2) actually found a religion and get Work Ethic. Otherwise I'd definitely not slot it for +6 faith empire-wide.

Science on the other hand has more adjacency leeway with reefs and fissures, and contribute much more directly than faith (which needs to be stocked up).

Also note on Veterancy: It does not go obsolete at all, so its value go up throughout the game and i think that deserves some recognition.

 

[Josephias]

Natural Philosophy (23)
Scripture (7)
Veterancy (14)

Scripture (10-3): Another consideration that may undermine Spcripture being more useful than Natural Philosophy, is that as it is unlocked, you unlock as well the HS T2 (&3) buildings, therefore you have alternate sources of faith. Compare to Natural Philosopy were T2 & T3 campus buildings are updated late medieval (+1 era) and late modern (+4 eras). Of course, this does not take into acount you may get Work Ethic, in that situation Scripture is greatly boosted, but it is a niche one.

Veterancy (13+1): Altough I think the podium is tending to show clear I'll go nevertheless with Veterancy, to spread my votes, and because I think it is a quite good red card. Mostly, the option to speed up harbor buildings construction, which have highly versatile yields (trade routes, housing, food, production) gives it an edge it would not have if focused only in the encampment.

 

[Atlas627]

Natural Philosophy (23)
Scripture (7 + 1 = 8)
Veterancy (14 - 3 = 11)

All of these give strict yields, but Science is universally useful, Faith will be useful for whichever things I get Faith-buy abilities for (which I clearly care about, since I bothered to get them) and is very strong in those things, and both give more yield increase than Veterancy, even if Veterancy wasn't restricted to building certain things.

 

[Amrunril]

I wonder if it would be a good idea to got back to starting at 18 or 20 points in future policy threads. Going down to 15 makes sense when you're looking at 40+ wonders or civs in a single thread, but when you only have about a dozen policy cards, it means that a pretty significant fraction of the options are getting eliminated in the first day of voting, without much chance for back and forth, and before some posters even have a chance to vote.

Natural Philosophy (23)
Scripture (9)
Veterancy (8)

Veterancy (11-3=8) I'm surprised to see this make it so far, given that coastal cities and strategies tend to get discounted a bit in these threads. I think it's a great card, but I really can't see ranking it over the other two. It's a solid production boost, but not a huge one, and it's harder to apply to many cities at once than unit production cards.
Scripture (8+1=9) Between the remaining adjacency cards, I'd say that Rationalism has the higher median value. Science is valuable in every game, and this is a solid way to get more of it. In the situations where Scripture is good, though, it's game changing to a degree that Rationalism never is. While it's hard for rationalism to give you more than 3 or 4 science per campus. Scripture can give you 6+ faith and 6+ production from holy sites with the right belief choices. That's the sort of boost that you can build an entire strategy around.

 

[OzzyKP]

Natural Philosophy (20) (23-3) I honestly rarely use this. It generally doesn't give me that much science till later in the game anyhow.
Scripture (9)
Veterancy (9) (8+1) I use this one often. Production is king. Getting those harbors up and running makes a huge difference. I have this one on for large parts of the game.