[NFP] Classical Era Policy Elimination Thread

[Francel]

Natural Philosophy (17) (20-3)
Scripture (10) (9+1)
Veterancy (9)

With three cards left, I'll vote the same as yesterday. Science is overrated. Don't underestimate the fun of blowing up modern armor with field cannons. Haven't built a campus in what feels like months. Holy site is my first district in the game and usually the first district in every city.

Closing arguments:
1) It's easier to build high adjacency holy sites than campuses
2) Holy sites can provide substantial extra production, especially early game
3) Extra faith allows for quicker apostles and the evangelization of beliefs that provide extra benefits; those benefits are flexible and can be tailored to give you what you most need
4) Extra faith allows for more missionaries when most impactful and possibly envoys from city-states or science with Fez
5) Extra faith allows for more civilian units during monumentality golden age
6) Extra faith allows for patronage of key great persons
7) The city with the highest adjacency holy site can provide extra science with Hildegard
8) RV is just as viable and respectable and science victory, and high science output is not mandatory

It's been a fun elimination game. I'll see you in the Medieval era.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I wonder if it would be a good idea to got back to starting at 18 or 20 points in future policy threads. Going down to 15 makes sense when you're looking at 40+ wonders or civs in a single thread, but when you only have about a dozen policy cards, it means that a pretty significant fraction of the options are getting eliminated in the first day of voting, without much chance for back and forth, and before some posters even have a chance to vote.

Moderator Action: I think that's a fair point and will raise it with the rest of the staff.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Natural Philosophy 18 (17+1) It's just the easiest card to use, and science is the most flexible.
Scripture (10)
Veterancy (6) 9-3 While great, it's just not as flexible as the other two cards.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Natural Philosophy (18)
Scripture (7)
Veterancy (7)

Scripture 7 (10-3): An extremely powerful card, but the most circumstantial of the three left
Veterancy 7 (6+1): Even on a pangea map you're going to have a coastline and you're going to want to build Harbours for food, gold and production. And if you're playing on Pangea you're probably a warmonger and you want Encampments anyway. Scripture requires several synergies at once to be truly powerful, Veterancy doesn't have maybe as much peak power, but it is a simple, effective card, and its a useful non-warfare military card.

Natural Philosophy is going to probably win, as it should.

Edit: Archon replied whilst I was typing

 

[Lamington]

Natural Philosophy (18)
Scripture (8) 7+1
Veterancy (4) 7-3

Upvoted Veterancy yesterday, but as we get to final three, I believe Scripture (and faith) has more use in early game, between potential monumentality, faith purchases etc. Plus Scripture feels like it has more longevity than Veterancy.

 

[fantsu]

Natural Philosophy (18)
Scripture (9) 8 + 1
Veterancy (1) 4 - 3

Scripture is just so useful for so many different things faith can get you later on, so much flexibility. I don't win science games by accident, but NP aims for narrower later options for me.

Veterancy loses its value as I try to build encampments to cities that actually have decent production already, that 30% just benefits harbor cities mostly due to cut chances to hills being coastal and all.

 

[canadamufc]

Natural Philosophy (18)
Scripture (10) +1 I'm gonna say this is equal, if not better than NP. The argument that you need to rely on Work Ethic for value is flawed. If you're building holy sites, you're getting a religion (imo it's a waste to not to do so). Work Ethic is one of the least valued beliefs by the AI, it is almost always left available if you have the last religion. If you spawn near tundra, desert, or rainforest then you can easily get +5 or 6 holy sites which can be doubled to +10 or 12. This also means you get 12 production as well. Even if you don't spawn near any of them, you can still get solid adjacency from mountains too. Production can go anywhere, and this is why Scripture is the most flexible card. One last thing I want to say is that IF you get desert folklore, sacred path, or dance of the aurora, you will get more adjacency than NP ever will.
Veterancy (-2) -3 eliminated. This one is too situational in my opinion. Unlike the other two, this one relies on a water heavy map, and that's what puts it down from the rest. Also, if you're playing Pangaea then why not settle inland instead?

 

[greenOak]

Natural Philosophy (19) (18+1)
Scripture (7) (10-3)

I think that science, on average, is a more useful yield than faith. In general I would say:

Religious Victory: Scripture > Natural Philosophy
Culture Victory: Scripture > Natural Philosophy
Domination Victory: Natural Philosophy > Scripture
Diplomatic Victory: Natural Philosophy > Scripture
Science Victory: Natural Philosophy > Scripture

Even in religious science games (Russia, Japan, Ethiopia runs), I would argue that natural philosophy is just as important as scripture. I usually slot in scripture before natural philosophy, but after most of my expansion is done I prefer to be using natural philosophy.

 

[TCBB]

Natural Philosophy (20) (19+1)
Scripture (4) (7-3)

Pleased with how this thread turned out. I was worried Raid might come first or second, as this sub seems to be obsessed with pillaging while never acknowledging the downsides of the strategy (i.e. everyone hates you, and it's tedious as hell). As it is, I think Natural Philosophy – Scripture – Veterancy trio is the correct top 3.

 

[Deadly Dog]

Natural Philosophy (21) 20+1 Voted it down yesterday, it's not my top choice. But more universally relevant to my games than Scripture. I sltted it yesterday for a few turn after build ing 2 campus, the +6 science I got while slotting is solid. Hardly double science though.
Scripture (1) 4-3 Has great potential. I either slot this all the time or not at all. Have to downvote for all those games I don't build high adj HS, which is at least half.

 

[MrRadar]

OK, let's end this. We have a nice final list

Natural Philosophy (22) (21+1) As explained above, science and NP helps with more victory types.
Scripture ELIMINATED (1-3) Faith can move mountains. Except when it can't. Then you turn to science

 

[Vizurok]

All right, it seems that this thread concluded in a classic "man of science, man of faith" debate, and this time science triumphed. While science stands strong as the key yield of the middle game, faith seems to be getting stronger as going for a Work Ethic based religion appears to be a sound strategy for any victory condition (even for science).

Let's finish up the thread with the final leaderboard:
1. Natural Philosophy
2. Scripture (Turn 87)
3. Veterancy (Turn 83)
4. Diplomatic League (Turn 65)
5. Raid (Turn 58)
6. Limes (Turn 52)
7. Charismatic Leader (Turn 37)
8. Bastions (Turn 32)
9. Literary Tradition (Turn 22)
10. Equestrian Orders (Turn 19)
11. Praetorium (Turn 13)
12. Insulae (Turn 10)

See you around in the inevitably impending Medieval Era thread!