[NFP] Classical Era Policy Elimination Thread

[kaspergm]

Praetorium: This should have gone before Insulae. Who actually installs this useless card? You won't even have enough Governor Titles at this point in the game to justify this. You already get Loyalty from Governors-WHO EEVEN DECIDED THAT THIS WAS A GOOD CARD TO PUT INTO THE GAME??!! Sorry, had to go on a rant there.

Natural Philosophy: Who doesn't like extra Science? Not me.

Wrt. Praetorium: Sorry, but what kind of argument is that? You could say exactly the same about Natural Philosophy: You already get science from campuses, does that make Natural Philosophy useless? Eh ...

It's not like I'm going to give a big defensive speak for Praetorium, because I agree the card is (too) weak, but logically I just don't think your argument holds. For the record I've use Praetorium plenty of times when warring and being in a dark age. Often slotting in Praetorium along with the card that gives loyalty from a garrisoned unit is enough to make a city go from revolting in, say 4-5 turns, to instead revolting in 8-10 turns. That's pretty significant, because in that time span, it's much more likely that you'll conquer another city, and/or repairing the monument, which may then turn your loyalty into green.

 

[tedhebert]

Bastions (13)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (15)
Equestrian Orders (0) (3-3) *** ELIMINATED *** No use for this one.
Limes (17)
Literary Tradition (9)
Natural Philosophy (22) (21+1) Not only strong, but stays on a very long time usually
Raid (16)
Scripture (18)
Veterancy (17)

 

[TCBB]

Bastions (13)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (15)
Limes (17)
Literary Tradition (6) (9-3)
Natural Philosophy (22)
Raid (16)
Scripture (19) (18+1)
Veterancy (17)

Scripture (19) (18+1): if Natural Philosophy is (rightly) storming ahead as no. 1, then Scripture deserves a worthy second place. Just like Yerevan in the city-state thread, you don’t need to run Scripture in every game, but when you do play a faith-based game it is absolutely essential. Plus: when combined with an adjacency pantheon and the revamped Work Ethic, it creates one of the most powerful openings in the current version of the game. How’s +14 faith & +14 production in the classical era sound? Scripture makes it possible.

Literary Tradition (6) (9-3): the worst of the great person point cards so far. Great scientists & prophets can be activated on their district, and great generals have passive bonuses; but if you want to USE your great writer, you have to have built a theatre square and amphitheater already.

 

[Baigan]

Bastions (13)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (16)
Limes (17)
Literary Tradition (3)
Natural Philosophy (22)
Raid (16)
Scripture (19)
Veterancy (17)

I was disallowed from starting the next thread so I'm glad you did the honors, @Vizurok .

Diplomatic League (15+1): Assuming you can complete a quest, Diplomatic League halves the amount of envoys you need to get +3 Science in all your Universities. This is especially helpful in games where the AI has a stranglehold on city state suzerainties; you could fight for suzerainty of 1 or 2 city states OR you could go wide and take advantage of all the +3s. This makes Diplo League a higher tempo catch-up tool than Charismatic Leader at higher difficulties.

Literary Tradition (6-3): Great works of writing aren't even that great anymore.

 

[Mr. Salt]

Bastions (13)
Charismatic Leader (16)
Diplomatic League (16)
Limes (17)
Literary Tradition (0) (Eliminated)
Natural Philosophy (22)
Raid (16)
Scripture (19)
Veterancy (17)

Charismatic Leader: An inoffensively superior option. With few exceptions (read: Diplomatic Maori or Cree, who like Diplomatic League), this will be occupying my only Diplomatic slot for a pretty long period of the game.

Literary Tradition: Even if you do need Great Writers there are better things to do with a Wildcard slot.

 

[Amrunril]

Bastions (13)
Charismatic Leader (16)
Diplomatic League (16)
Limes (14)
Natural Philosophy (22)
Raid (16)
Scripture (20)
Veterancy (17)

Limes (17-3=14) I'll happily use this from time to time, but it never feels particularly game changing. Ancient walls are valuable, but they're only one building and not a particularly expensive one. Medieval and Renaissance walls are situational at best, whether or not you have this production boost.

Scripture (19+1=20) This requires some setup to use effectively, but it has far more potential under the right conditions that any other early game policy. Thanks to Pantheons and Natural Wonders, Holy Sites are probably the easiest district to stack high adjacency bonuses for, and their faith yield can be invested into almost anything. Whether you want civilian units, military units, great people, infrastructure, tourism or even religious units, there's a way to get it with faith. Scripture can be an amazing card in any of these contexts, and if you're lucky enough to get Work Ethic, it goes from amazing to obscene.

 

[Josephias]

Eh... were have all the obvious downvotes gone? Well, now this starts to get hard

Bastions (10)
Charismatic Leader (16)
Diplomatic League (16)
Limes (15)
Natural Philosophy (22)
Raid (16)
Scripture (20)
Veterancy (17)


Bastions (13-3): This can be a lifesaver, but I see it the most situational and least useful of the remaining. Diplomatic League and Limes may be short slots, but with a powerful effect that you can plan. Bastions is mostly reactive (and to get full effect of it you need to have built walls already)

Limes (14+1): Before getting tempted to move to Scripture (I have recent the game of my tundra forest Dance+Ethic +20/+20 Holy Site, but that's quite situational) or Natural Philosophy, I'll review the red cards. It my use (mainly defensive) is a close tie between Veterancy and Limes. Limes gets the point today because all cities can immediately benefit of it, while veterancy depends on your need for encampments/harbors vs other districts. (Note also walls are a help - if minor - for Cultural Victory)

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Bastions (7)
Charismatic Leader (16)
Diplomatic League (16)
Limes (15)
Natural Philosophy (22)
Raid (16)
Scripture (20)
Veterancy (18)

Bastions 7 (10-3). Extremely situational, and if you're having to use this in the classical era you're in trouble and probably heading for a restart. Sure, it might allow you to cling onto a city, but if you're in that much trouble you'll just be falling further behind the AI on higher levels

Veterancy 18 (17+1). Would be powerful if it was just the boost to harbour production and all it's buildings. I build way more harbours than encampments, but even so, the encampment construction boost is a nice little 2 for the price of 1 boost.

 

[enKage]

Bastions (7)
Charismatic Leader (16)
Diplomatic League (17)
Limes (12)
Natural Philosophy (22)
Raid (16)
Scripture (20)
Veterancy (18)

Limes -3
- the least useful left in single player. You need maybe 1-2 cities with walls and ancient walls are not so expensive anyway, so this has a little impact. Instead of building higher tier walls, plug in bastion when needed.

DiploLeage +1
A must have for short periods between civic changes. Have a long time of being useful, in opposite to charismatic leader, which you would probably replace with other diplocards )+1 per envoy, +2f/h from routes)

 

[Deadly Dog]

Bastions (7)
Charismatic Leader (16-3)=13
Diplomatic League (17+1)=18
Limes (12)
Natural Philosophy (22)
Raid (16)
Scripture (20)
Veterancy (18)

Diplomatic League +1 This one got me suze of 2 nascent CS with just two envoys from zero by completing a quest they both had. And I only had to slot the card for one turn. This is what makes this card so great later when there are better green cards. You can time things to get a whole lot from it then go back to your "something-per-turn" card. I treat it like Professional Army and Serfdom.


Charismatic Leader -1 Just because it gets slotted a lot doesn't mean it deserves a vote. When your only other card is DL, of course use this until you're ready to assign envoys. But its not as good as it was in Vanilla and as soon as ME green cards come along, see ya. Certainly won't EVER go into a wildcard slot, unlike Diplo League when I'm in Autocracy...err, I mean Oligarchy now!

 

[Vargas1]

Bastions (4)
Charismatic Leader (13)
Diplomatic League (18)
Limes (12)
Natural Philosophy (22)
Raid (16)
Scripture (20)
Veterancy (19)

Veterancy (19) - Starting my voting off with a couple of red cards. As noted, harbors are great and this card's discount to buildings is huge to get coastal cities up and running. Plus the encampment bonus is nice if you're warmongering. One of the few red cards that I will slot and leave in for long periods of time.

Bastions (4) - Of the cards unlocked at Defensive Tactics, I'm much more likely to have slotted in Limes and built walls in advance instead of slotting this in when I'm under attack. I suppose the ranged strength boost would be helpful if you have walls up, but I've never felt a relatively modest boost to damage would make a huge difference - if I have a walled city, I'm either comfortable defensively or it's coming down no matter what I do.

 

[canadamufc]

Bastions (4)
Charismatic Leader (10) -3 Hardly useful. Most of your envoys comes from civics so this doesn't make a big difference. Not the worst out of all, but stands a tier worse than the rest.
Diplomatic League (18)
Limes (12)
Natural Philosophy (23) +1 This is THE card to put in for catching up with AI. Not only do you want this in the classical era, this stays in the whole game in a science victory.
Raid (16)
Scripture (20)
Veterancy (19)

 

[Archon_Wing]

Bastions (4)
Charismatic Leader 7 (10-3). 1 Envoy every 50 turns in a t1 government, and~37 for t2. Not very impressive, though I suppose it gets slotted by default. But that's why green slots are so weak early game and arguably Autocracy has been nerfed.
Diplomatic League (18)
Limes (12)
Natural Philosophy (23)
Raid (16)
Scripture (20)
Veterancy 20 (19+1) With Veterancy, sea spots and harbors become prime real estate, and I will often favor them over commercial hubs since harbors have a much more well rounded set. Shipyards are also a good thing to aim for.

 

[Siddorm]

Bastions (1) (4-3)
Charismatic Leader (7)
Diplomatic League (18)
Limes (13) (12+1)
Natural Philosophy (23)
Raid (16)
Scripture (20)
Veterancy (20)

Limes and Bastions compete for the same slot and I view Limes as clearly superior, since it saves me at least 200 production per game. Bastions is only useful when I am attacked, and even in such a situation, the boost it gives me is modest.

 

[kaspergm]

Bastions ELIMINATED (1-3) - Clearly the worst of the remaining IMO. Once a city has walls it’s rarely severely threatened, I very rarely use this card.
Charismatic Leader (7)
Diplomatic League (19) (18+1) - IMO. this is better than Veterancy so giving it a bump.
Limes (13)
Natural Philosophy (23)
Raid (16)
Scripture (20)
Veterancy (20)

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Charismatic Leader (4) (7-3)
Diplomatic League (19)
Limes (13)
Natural Philosophy (23)
Raid (16)
Scripture (21) (20+1)
Veterancy (20)

Charismatic Leader (4) (7-3) The next to go, in my view. As others have said, it’s a placeholder between better options and it doesn’t actually yield that many extra envoy points.

Scripture (21) (20+1) My favourite opening is to go holy site adjacency pantheon –> religion –> work ethic –> scripture. Not only does it give your first two cities insanely high production relative to the era; it also tees you up perfectly for a monumentality golden age, with all the benefits that brings. It’s why Maori and Russia are my favourite Civs.

 

[Equilin]

Charismatic Leader (4)
Diplomatic League (20) (19+1) Actually gives a lot of envoy over the course of the game, and can make a different stealing that suzerain, very strong for a policy that is not permanently slotted.
Limes (10) (13-3) Either i have my walls by the time i get it, or i am no longer under threat by enemies by then.
Natural Philosophy (23)
Raid (16)
Scripture (21)
Veterancy (20)

 

[JhGf_123]

Charismatic Leader (4)
Diplomatic League (20)
Limes (7) (10-3)
Natural Philosophy (23)
Raid (16)
Scripture (22) (21+1)
Veterancy (20)

Limes: don't get me wrong, +100% is very appreciated. But I only build walls in one or two fringe cities. So maybe I'll plug this in for 10 turns and build those walls in one go, but that's as much use as I get out of it.

Scripture: faith has become more and more important. Scripture is probably the most reliable way to double your early faith output.

 

[MrRadar]

Charismatic Leader (1) (4-3)
Diplomatic League (20)
Limes (7)
Natural Philosophy (23)
Raid (16)
Scripture (22)
Veterancy (21) (20+1)

Charismatic Leader (1) (4-3) I used to like this card until I realized that its charisma is much less that it may look like at the first glance. Diplomatic League may bring you far more free envoys. And the new Diplomatic Quarter with its buildings further reduced this card's value.

Veterancy (21) (20+1) I was overjoyed when this card started to apply to Harbours and their buildings as well, it made coastal cities so much more appealing. I like Continents and Islands maps and they offer quite a few sites for coastal cities, so I use this card quite a lot.

 

[Vargas1]

Charismatic Leader (0) ELIMINATED
Diplomatic League (20)
Limes (7)
Natural Philosophy (23)
Raid (16)
Scripture (23)
Veterancy (21)

Scripture (23) - Monumentality plus work ethic makes this one of the strongest early-game cards for any civ that's going for a religion.

Charismatic Leader (0) - I use it a lot, but only by default - it's not actually an inherently strong card.