Climb The Ladder I: Alexander - Noble

[May Day 10]

Climbing the ladder will be a series of games starting at Noble, and progressing as high as possible. If a loss is experienced, the level will be repeated. Each game will use a different leader, ascending alphabetically.

I think this exercise will serve a few purposes:
First, personally I cannot overcome a Noble game solo. Playing 'live community' games will bring me closer to a Civ fanatic level. Ive been playing these games since II. I have never been able to succeed at the middle levels. There are some major technical errors in my game.
Second, these games can help anyone succeed at these levels/refine their games. I will post savegame files for anyone to grab. Please no spoilers.
Third, the variety of leaders will give myself and others a better skill set when dealing with traits and UU's.
Lastly, I need something to do at work all day while thinking of the next move.


I originally started this on Settler, but it was pointed out the advantages of that skill level make strategizing a waste of time. So let us start out on (what I consider) a challenging level.

 

[May Day 10]

Greeks - Alexander

Continents - Temperate - Medium sea level - Standard size map - Normal Speed - Noble Difficulty.




The Greek's UU is the Phalanx. It replaces the spearman. Strength of 5, movement of 1. +100% against mounted units, +25% hills defense.

Alexander's traits are Philosophical and Aggressive.
Philosophical: Double production of the university, and +100%% GP Birth Rate.
Aggressive: Free promotion for melee units (including phalanx) and gunpowder units. Double production rates of the barracks and drydock.

Starting Technologies: Hunting and Fishing

 

[May Day 10]

Starting position. Near a goody hut with my scout. Near some corn with the settler.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Welcome to the big leagues....

OK, general advice #1: you can improve the advice you get a great deal by including your own thoughts when you post a position. It helps your audience to see where your broken assumptions are.

Also - your opening summary should include your starting techs; they are important to be thinking about as you begin to plan your opening.



Points on mechanics: as a general rule - meaning until you understand the game well enough to recognize the exceptions - you want to avoid settling cities "one off the coast". The problem is that you end up with water tiles that cannot be improved, without the corresponding advantages of lighthouses, harbors, ship building, and so on.

You can see from the shape of the of the tile SW of your settler that your city would have two coastal tiles in its working area (ie - the "fat cross"). In most circumstances, you'll normally want to move to the coast, or move a little bit inland, but not leave yourself trapped in the middle.


Also - one of the most valuble things you can get from a hut is a technology. But that can't happen unless you found a city before you "pop" the hut.


One of the interesting aspects of the game is the fact that all city locations are not considered equal. Founding a city on a brown (plains) hill is worth an extra hammer every turn, which is a really big deal, especially in the early game.

So you might consider moving your settler to the hill your scout is now on. Against this is the fact that the hill is not on the river - and the Levee is a very big deal for late game production. Moving to the hill would also cost you almost all of your other production, which is not normal or easy to play.

Since this is a first game at a new level, I'd recommend going with a "normal" looking opening position, even if it isn't the best possible play. With this in mind, the placement I would recommend is moving the settler one tile to the east. This will give you a fairly normal looking commerce capital, with some production thanks to the hills.

 

[WillzZz]

Cool idea for the series. Looking forward to watching you learn and learning alongside. Scout (SE, SE) or (SW, SW)? From what I see I'd move Settler 1 S before deciding. Gives you 2 Scout moves to check it out and if you don't like it, you can still move 1N or 1NE and settle next turn.

I tend to agree with keeping it on the coast, but I'm a GLH lover, so I'm biased =)

 

[Single Malt]

Settle 1E is my choice too. I would research agriculture first too, and worker first build. The farms can be torn down for cottages later. For now you want to max food. Also keep the FP that's 1E of the corn farmed, so it'll chain irrigate the corn when Civil Service gets researched.

 

[Joshua368]

If you choose to settle 1E, make sure to move the scout 2SW first to make sure you won't be leaving anything delicious behind.

Also you need to get Beyond the Sword. It's certainly a worthwhile expansion pack, plus Vanilla is extremely out of date and you'll get some irrelevant advice. For example, levees are an excellent source of late game production for riverside cities... but you can't build them in this game!

And with that in mind, I actually think 1S might be a better spot to settle. You'll get access to the coast and won't waste any floodplains, a harbor should help negate the lack of freshwater bonus later.

 

[DMOC]

Actually, the starting techs are displayed in the first screenshot.

Anyway, I suggest settling 1 south or 1 east. 1 south = coastal capital with better trades/can build ships but 1 east gives more land. I'm inclined to go 1east. And found the city BEFORE using the scout to pop the hut.

Edit - 1south is not on a river so no +2 auto health so go 1 east.

 

[Smolf]

I would go one south... He has fishing as a starting technology and could be lucky to find a water resource.

 

[vicawoo]

Another guessing game start. Send the scout 2 SW, he will reveal all the relevant water tiles (you always see two tiles over water) and land to the west. Unless your opponents are right next to you, you won't lose the hut.

 

[Ultimocrat]

Agree with VoU's comments. Settle 1 E for a solid commerce capital. Don't be concerned with missing out on seafood -- you will have the option to found cities grabbing the resources later, if they exist. Tech agriculture and start building a worker to improve the corn.

 

[May Day 10]

I follow all your advice except for this.
Why is the hill a great site?

So you might consider moving your settler to the hill your scout is now on. Against this is the fact that the hill is not on the river - and the Levee is a very big deal for late game production. Moving to the hill would also cost you almost all of your other production, which is not normal or easy to play.

 

[Ultimocrat]

A plains hill city site gives you a city center square with 2 food, 2 hammers, and 1 commerce. Any other base terrain is 2 food, 1 hammer, and 1 commerce. The extra hammer means the potential for a significantly faster start (worker in 12 turns instead of 15, for example), which can be leveraged into an early rush, or other long-term gains, even if the hill site is less solid in the long term.

In Sisiutil's Ragnar ALC game, there was a huge debate over whether to settle in place, or move 1 tile west to settle on a plains hill with stone, which is an even better tile than a regular plains hill -- 2 food, 3 hammers, 1 commerce. Generally, starts where you have the nearby option of settling on a plains hill deserve special consideration. This case is compounded by the fact that you are 1 off the coast, so you probably don't want to settle in place (the default option, which the AI always does, to its detriment).

The question becomes, then, where to move? Settling on the plains hill N-NE gives you a powerful start, but has long-term problems - less health and production than settling on the river. I agree with VoU that settling 1 E is likely to lead to a long-term game that is more normal -- you will likely configure your capital as a strong commerce city, with cottages on the floodplains, science buildings, etc. Settling on the hill may be optimal for a rapid start, but you may not know how to deal with it, and you don't want to get used to having that extra early hammer -- it's not unusual, but you won't have the option in most games.

 

[May Day 10]

I see. The 1E square makes sense. As does 1S if there are some water resources.
I tried a game where I built a workboat right off the bat to work a water resource and the amount of time it took to build the boat made it seem like I was setting my Civ back.
I am also hearing and it sounds like a plan to move the Scouts 2 SW.

Would it be beneficial to move the Settler 1S to bust some fog? And would it bust more fog if I were to move the Scout 1W and then 1SW?
Then if there is nothing spectacular, move the settler 1NE to settle (in the spot that is originally 1E). Then I will settle Athens. Then move the scout to bust the hut and further explore the areas around Athens to expose any resources and huts. I will research Agriculture and build a worker 1st to farm the corn. After worker I would build a warrior. If there are any cows and pigs revealed nearby, I would then reserarch AH.


What I would have possibly done is settle in place, and probably bust the hut off the bat. Learned some great lessons so far.
1. one off the coast is bad.
2. Dont bust up huts until a city is founded
3. if you connect farms next to rivers they chain irrigate with Civil Service. (or is that only for a FP?)
4. The plains hill site makes sense now. But I would rather start off in a typical start-off.



I do have BTS and Warlords. I will probably incorporate them is some of this series as well. I havent played them yet because I dont feel that I have a great grasp on the base game here after all this time.

 

[AmazonQueen]

When you have a coastal start and a resource to use a workboat on its always worth doing so IMO. However the game will always pick the highest food tile for you to work which means the workboat will take a long time to build. Instead you should work the highest hammers tile until the workboat is complete then switch to the resource you use the workboat on.

 

[May Day 10]

When you have a coastal start and a resource to use a workboat on its always worth doing so IMO. However the game will always pick the highest food tile for you to work which means the workboat will take a long time to build. Instead you should work the highest hammers tile until the workboat is complete then switch to the resource you use the workboat on.

thats great stuff there.

 

[vicawoo]

I see. The 1E square makes sense. As does 1S if there are some water resources.
I tried a game where I built a workboat right off the bat to work a water resource and the amount of time it took to build the boat made it seem like I was setting my Civ back.
I am also hearing and it sounds like a plan to move the Scouts 2 SW.

Would it be beneficial to move the Settler 1S to bust some fog? And would it bust more fog if I were to move the Scout 1W and then 1SW?
Then if there is nothing spectacular, move the settler 1NE to settle (in the spot that is originally 1E). Then I will settle Athens. Then move the scout to bust the hut and further explore the areas around Athens to expose any resources and huts. I will research Agriculture and build a worker 1st to farm the corn. After worker I would build a warrior. If there are any cows and pigs revealed nearby, I would then reserarch AH.


What I would have possibly done is settle in place, and probably bust the hut off the bat. Learned some great lessons so far.
1. one off the coast is bad.
2. Dont bust up huts until a city is founded
3. if you connect farms next to rivers they chain irrigate with Civil Service. (or is that only for a FP?)
4. The plains hill site makes sense now. But I would rather start off in a typical start-off.



I do have BTS and Warlords. I will probably incorporate them is some of this series as well. I havent played them yet because I dont feel that I have a great grasp on the base game here after all this time.

Scout 1w 1sw will show more land tiles to the north, but it will show no water tiles.

 

[Pacifist46]

EDIT: Ignore me, I thought the Scout was the Settler, sorry.

 

[May Day 10]

If you settle right on the corn, do you still get the corn? At that point you obviously cant improve the square. The same would go for things like pigs, cows, etc, and how about resources such as copper, iron, oil?

I dont think I would ever do that, but what happens?

 

[batavier]

If you settle right on the corn, do you still get the corn? At that point you obviously cant improve the square. The same would go for things like pigs, cows, etc, and how about resources such as copper, iron, oil?

I dont think I would ever do that, but what happens?

You get one extra food for the city center and get the health effect from
the corn and you can trade the corn later on. If un unimproved tile gives more food, hammers or commerce than a normal city centre (2f/1h/1c) then you will get the yield of the tile. This is sometimes done to:
- get resources online earlier
- make the resource unpillagable
- with resources that can't be worked until later.
- if it's the only way to get other resources.