Clive1 - Monarch (Training ?) game
- Thread starter Sir Clive
- Start date
Sir Clive
King
Thanks for posting the screenshot for me SesnOWethr 
Sir Clive
King
Must admit I found the play quite hard going last night.
Seeing as this is my first is SG it's the first time I have ever written a turnlog
and had to take screenshots, and I am probably playing with a less blase attitude than I do when I am playing on my own and hence the turns take quite a bit longer.
Due to having some RL stuff to do between turns 5 and 6 I didn't get finished until about 00-30 and having been slaving over a hot computer screen all day as well this is probably why my turns were a bit :thumbdown towards the end and I screwed up the turns. I apologise !
As the turns get longer I think I will try to play over 2 evenings , 5 moves per evening in future.
I'll have a think about strategy tonight , however once we had got the embassies it looked to me as if Japan should be first for
I tend to avoid hitting militaristic civs early on but they are closest to us, they have some nice looking land, they only have 4 (?) cities and judging from the embassy info they are pretty weak all round. I would think we can finish them off pretty quickly.
Seeing as this is my first is SG it's the first time I have ever written a turnlog
and had to take screenshots, and I am probably playing with a less blase attitude than I do when I am playing on my own and hence the turns take quite a bit longer.
Due to having some RL stuff to do between turns 5 and 6 I didn't get finished until about 00-30 and having been slaving over a hot computer screen all day as well this is probably why my turns were a bit :thumbdown towards the end and I screwed up the turns. I apologise !
As the turns get longer I think I will try to play over 2 evenings , 5 moves per evening in future.
I'll have a think about strategy tonight , however once we had got the embassies it looked to me as if Japan should be first for
I tend to avoid hitting militaristic civs early on but they are closest to us, they have some nice looking land, they only have 4 (?) cities and judging from the embassy info they are pretty weak all round. I would think we can finish them off pretty quickly.
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
The most important thing is to not let any conflict get in the way of expansion.
If you slow your expansion, then India and others will fill up the space before you can finish off Japan.
Make a concise plan, and stick to it. How many defenders do you expect in each city? Allowing for rng quirks, how many units, and what kind, will you need to take each city? Will you raze and replace, or simply keep the cities? If you keep the cities, how big is the flip risk? Is this a pruning war (make them weaker) or an elimination war? Do they have the ability to sign anyone else on against you? If so, can you handle that threat, or do you need to sign others on first? Can you win this war without triggering your GA, or do you need to wait for a new govt?
As I said, I haven't had a ton of time lately to look at the save, but just some food for thought.
If you slow your expansion, then India and others will fill up the space before you can finish off Japan.
Make a concise plan, and stick to it. How many defenders do you expect in each city? Allowing for rng quirks, how many units, and what kind, will you need to take each city? Will you raze and replace, or simply keep the cities? If you keep the cities, how big is the flip risk? Is this a pruning war (make them weaker) or an elimination war? Do they have the ability to sign anyone else on against you? If so, can you handle that threat, or do you need to sign others on first? Can you win this war without triggering your GA, or do you need to wait for a new govt?
As I said, I haven't had a ton of time lately to look at the save, but just some food for thought.
Sir Clive
King
SesnOfWthr said:
This is a very interesting point for me. I have been playing civ for about 4 years and I don't think I have ever razed a city.
I normally play a fairly peaceful game, build lots of libraries / temples early on and try to stuff captured cities full of troops and use multiple clowns to keep them quiet (usually resulting in multiple starvation). Normally my superior culture means I keep the cities (unless my useless warfare tactics means they get recaptured by opposition military superiority , which is usually the case
)Have always been scared of the rep hit , but primarily my view has been if there is a size 5/6 city there and I have captured it, why go through the hassle of building it up again ?
I suppose I ought to have a quick play on a small map and experiment with razing vs capturing !
Sir Clive
King
MSTK said:Well, I wrote up a Japan attack plan...
Just read it again MSTK (didn't reply to it in the first place since as you know I am a coward and afraid of war
)Looks pretty good to me - there are so few places 3MC can get through making the first assault with swords to weaken the west seems a good idea. Also attacking from that side means we are in effect protecting Iron river which is currently one of our weakest cities at the moment. I definitely agree with Nara and Osaka being the first targets.
Is it worth trying to settle in the spot half way between Silk Forests and Osaka (where we currently have a warrior I think?) ? This looks as if it could be a good rally point and it is one of the few points where the 3MC can pass though.
How long do we reckon it will be before we will be able to change to change government ? For me there is still a big reluctance to go to war whilst in Despotism unless we can finish them off without using the 3MC
SesnOfWthr said:
Everybody, print that out and sticky it to your monitor! It's the best advice you'll hear tonight.
SesnOfWthr said:
All good questions and must be answered before the first war.
@MSTK,
I think all are agreed the campaign plans laid out in your maps are sound. The timing and the objectives remain to be determined. The one worst thing you can do is start a war too early, with too little to gain. As pointed out above in the time it takes to build an assault force we could have 7 or 8 more native cities humming away nicely, be leading the pack technically, and have an impregnable defense. Japan has no resources we need right now, is poor and lacking knowledge, they have one luxury good, we have three, their cities are small and poorly developed, ours are growing and getting the improvements needed. Once we run out of sites to build on, or the Japanese start encroaching on ours, or we discover they have something we really need, then hit them with everything we have and send 'em back to the Stone Age.
SesnOfWthr
True Believer
@MSTK - I missed your war plan. I apoligize for that. I will try to go back and locate it when I get a moment.
@Sir Clive - Razing cities gives you an attitude hit, not a rep hit. The two can be difficult to distinguish, but their effects are very different. Attitude determines what their disposition is (gracious, furious, etc). Attitude basically determines how likely they are to break deals with you, or attack you. Rep hits affect how you are able to buy up front items (like techs) for gpt.
@Sir Clive - Razing cities gives you an attitude hit, not a rep hit. The two can be difficult to distinguish, but their effects are very different. Attitude determines what their disposition is (gracious, furious, etc). Attitude basically determines how likely they are to break deals with you, or attack you. Rep hits affect how you are able to buy up front items (like techs) for gpt.
0-730
Swap a few builds around and start the ToA in Aleppo as a pre-build for the GreatLib. Set Research to Lit in 50 when we will have 2/3 in the shields in the bin to nail the Library. We lose what was invested in Monarchy but now that all the other nations have Polytheism plan on buying Monarchy, or Republic, from them, or getting it from the Great Library, if this gambit works, as it should.
The Great Library build is not intended as a crutch. Rather it is for denial to the other nations. I want everybody to pay full price, to us, preferably, but if not to somebody else. No freebies for the AI!!!1
Afraid the counsel I gave regarding the choice of free tech from the Philosophy gambit was wrong. As Polytheism was not available for purchase at the time we got the free tech I should have advised another choice. However, our lead in population gives us a little wriggle room here.
Maya start ToA
690BC
Couple of barb horsemen appear on the northern marches. The are excellent candidates to train our regular chariots so off we go to find the camp and play whack-a-barb or three and collect some fines.
Cleopatra has learned Map Making so I see if can't relieve her of it for Philosphy and get some cash in the bargain. She wants Philosophy and 2/3 of the treasury. That's way too rich for my blood and besides nobody else has anything to offer.
670BC Find the barb camp and it retreats our regular chariot.
630BC
Russia has learned Map Making. I can get it now from Cleopatra for Philosophy straight up but again with nowhere else to send it defer the deal for now.
610BC
Raid the Toltec camp for 25g
, right under the noses of two Indian warriors.
The Arabs want to extort Philosophy from us. He is as far away as he can get, has no iron and no horses. Tell him to go back to his tent in the desert. He allows as how he "respects our fortitude" and slinks away
590BC
Maya have learned Code of Laws, now we've got something to talk about. We should be able to get Code of Laws, Map Making and all the money.
Start the trading round by getting Code of Laws from the Maya for Philosophy and 260g. Then get Map Making from Cleoptra for Philosphy and 250g. Then take 331g from Maya for MapMaking and 96g from Gandhi for Philosphy. Leave the Japanese out of the trading round as they know only the Russians and the Russians are broke. Then go back to Cleopatra and sell Code of Laws for 375g.
Japanese finish the Oracle and the Arabs start the Pyramids
570BC
Sell Philosphy to the Japanese as they now have met the Indians.
550
Trekking settlers.
We have all the money, though Cleo has picked up some chump change by selling knowledge.
There are two settlers on the ground heading north
There is a warrior on a mountain to garrison the northernmost town on the grasslands and a spear preceding the second settler to the fishing village cove.
Worker troops are making their way to the NW. The suggested improvements at Riverbend should get the city to 15spt (2 turn swords and chariots) as the population grows to 12.
There are no imporvements needed at either Tarsus or Hattusas for them to fulfill their purposes. Hattusas no longer needs active management as a four turn farm. At Tarsus make sure the fourth citizen gets assigned to the fish when the worker is produced and it will stay on the 3 turn cycle.
There is a gang of workers at Tarsus in the woods, run a road then head them to the NW or NE (there is no need to chop the forest, the road will deliver an extra gold piece) I don't recommend using forest chops on unit production, save the trees for books and shelves when we learn literature, or use them for law books in courthouses if there is a corruption problem.
There are two scouts heading north to the black hole in the map and mapping the Russina and Japanese territories, and a curragh sailing west around the coast of Japan. There are a couple more nations to find.
With all the money we have in the treasury and the knoweldge we control I expect more demands from the AI. If it is the Arabs or the Maya, tell 'em to get lost. If they declare war, make alliances with Egypt (Maya) and Russia (Arabs). Let them do the fighting, it will tie up their resources while we keep expanding and building. If is the Egyptians, the Japanese or the Indians we need to think about it.
I have been stockpiling swords at Silk Forests and War Chariots at the OK Corral. There are two War Chariots northbound to Ugarit to act as garrisons and play whack-barb should anymore show up. Silk Forests can build spears in a reasonable time line to serve garrison duty. I wouldn' t recommend using swords or chariots. Keep those guys close to the front! There is a chariot at Hattusas jsut because there is an Egyptian warrior inbound along the coast. I don't see any threat, just a recon mission, but no harm in keeping an eye on him.
It appears that we control a good portion of the iron and the horses, at least in this little corner of the map (though I think Japan has horses available to them at Tokyo).
Roster check
Viper275 - UP
MSTK - on deck
Admiral Kutzov
mtgfreak
Sir Clive
Bede
Swap a few builds around and start the ToA in Aleppo as a pre-build for the GreatLib. Set Research to Lit in 50 when we will have 2/3 in the shields in the bin to nail the Library. We lose what was invested in Monarchy but now that all the other nations have Polytheism plan on buying Monarchy, or Republic, from them, or getting it from the Great Library, if this gambit works, as it should.
The Great Library build is not intended as a crutch. Rather it is for denial to the other nations. I want everybody to pay full price, to us, preferably, but if not to somebody else. No freebies for the AI!!!1
Afraid the counsel I gave regarding the choice of free tech from the Philosophy gambit was wrong. As Polytheism was not available for purchase at the time we got the free tech I should have advised another choice. However, our lead in population gives us a little wriggle room here.
Maya start ToA
690BC
Couple of barb horsemen appear on the northern marches. The are excellent candidates to train our regular chariots so off we go to find the camp and play whack-a-barb or three and collect some fines.
Cleopatra has learned Map Making so I see if can't relieve her of it for Philosphy and get some cash in the bargain. She wants Philosophy and 2/3 of the treasury. That's way too rich for my blood and besides nobody else has anything to offer.
670BC Find the barb camp and it retreats our regular chariot.
630BC
Russia has learned Map Making. I can get it now from Cleopatra for Philosophy straight up but again with nowhere else to send it defer the deal for now.
610BC
Raid the Toltec camp for 25g
, right under the noses of two Indian warriors.The Arabs want to extort Philosophy from us. He is as far away as he can get, has no iron and no horses. Tell him to go back to his tent in the desert. He allows as how he "respects our fortitude" and slinks away
590BC
Maya have learned Code of Laws, now we've got something to talk about. We should be able to get Code of Laws, Map Making and all the money.
Start the trading round by getting Code of Laws from the Maya for Philosophy and 260g. Then get Map Making from Cleoptra for Philosphy and 250g. Then take 331g from Maya for MapMaking and 96g from Gandhi for Philosphy. Leave the Japanese out of the trading round as they know only the Russians and the Russians are broke. Then go back to Cleopatra and sell Code of Laws for 375g.
Japanese finish the Oracle and the Arabs start the Pyramids
570BC
Sell Philosphy to the Japanese as they now have met the Indians.
550
Trekking settlers.
We have all the money, though Cleo has picked up some chump change by selling knowledge.
There are two settlers on the ground heading north
There is a warrior on a mountain to garrison the northernmost town on the grasslands and a spear preceding the second settler to the fishing village cove.
Worker troops are making their way to the NW. The suggested improvements at Riverbend should get the city to 15spt (2 turn swords and chariots) as the population grows to 12.
There are no imporvements needed at either Tarsus or Hattusas for them to fulfill their purposes. Hattusas no longer needs active management as a four turn farm. At Tarsus make sure the fourth citizen gets assigned to the fish when the worker is produced and it will stay on the 3 turn cycle.
There is a gang of workers at Tarsus in the woods, run a road then head them to the NW or NE (there is no need to chop the forest, the road will deliver an extra gold piece) I don't recommend using forest chops on unit production, save the trees for books and shelves when we learn literature, or use them for law books in courthouses if there is a corruption problem.
There are two scouts heading north to the black hole in the map and mapping the Russina and Japanese territories, and a curragh sailing west around the coast of Japan. There are a couple more nations to find.
With all the money we have in the treasury and the knoweldge we control I expect more demands from the AI. If it is the Arabs or the Maya, tell 'em to get lost. If they declare war, make alliances with Egypt (Maya) and Russia (Arabs). Let them do the fighting, it will tie up their resources while we keep expanding and building. If is the Egyptians, the Japanese or the Indians we need to think about it.
I have been stockpiling swords at Silk Forests and War Chariots at the OK Corral. There are two War Chariots northbound to Ugarit to act as garrisons and play whack-barb should anymore show up. Silk Forests can build spears in a reasonable time line to serve garrison duty. I wouldn' t recommend using swords or chariots. Keep those guys close to the front! There is a chariot at Hattusas jsut because there is an Egyptian warrior inbound along the coast. I don't see any threat, just a recon mission, but no harm in keeping an eye on him.
It appears that we control a good portion of the iron and the horses, at least in this little corner of the map (though I think Japan has horses available to them at Tokyo).
Roster check
Viper275 - UP
MSTK - on deck
Admiral Kutzov
mtgfreak
Sir Clive
Bede
mtgfreak
Massing Artillery
what happens if you settle near a volcano, and it erupts?
ive never been unlucky enough for that to happen
ive never been unlucky enough for that to happen
I probably won't be able to read this stuff on Thursday, this weekend could be hard, too.
This set of turns went pretty well, although I got confused by the years at some point. It also didn't let me confirm the next turn by pressing spacebar/enter, so the save is at the 11th turn but I haven't moved any units. I'll post a screenshot soon.
Turn 1
Maya finish Pyramids. Everybody (including the Maya) except for Egypt changed to The Mausoleum.
Turn 2
Civil Disorder in Riverbend, nothing else new.
Turn 3
Nothing special.
Turn 4
Got a Settler, headed toward the Incense. Founded Kanesh next to the Iron and the river.
Turn 5
Founded Kavhuyuk next to the coast and gold.
Turn 6
Nothing noteworthy.
Turn 7
Ditto.
Turn 8
Moved around units, that's about it.
Turn 9
Russia has Construction, along with many other civs now. Since almost everyone besides them has Code of Laws, I trade that to them and 360 gold, which was a good deal to me considering that many civs wanted 500+ gold for Construction and Russia could have easily traded with someone else for Code of Laws. Barbarians!
Turn 10
Our Curragh sees a coastline that is seperate from us but can be gotten to by a Curragh. Perhaps an island with another civ on it, I'm not sure. Barbarians steal gold from Kanesh. 28, I think.
Admiral Kutzov-in the wings
mtgfreak
Sir Clive
Bede
viper275-Just went
MSTK-up next
This set of turns went pretty well, although I got confused by the years at some point. It also didn't let me confirm the next turn by pressing spacebar/enter, so the save is at the 11th turn but I haven't moved any units. I'll post a screenshot soon.
Turn 1
Maya finish Pyramids. Everybody (including the Maya) except for Egypt changed to The Mausoleum.
Turn 2
Civil Disorder in Riverbend, nothing else new.
Turn 3
Nothing special.
Turn 4
Got a Settler, headed toward the Incense. Founded Kanesh next to the Iron and the river.
Turn 5
Founded Kavhuyuk next to the coast and gold.
Turn 6
Nothing noteworthy.
Turn 7
Ditto.
Turn 8
Moved around units, that's about it.
Turn 9
Russia has Construction, along with many other civs now. Since almost everyone besides them has Code of Laws, I trade that to them and 360 gold, which was a good deal to me considering that many civs wanted 500+ gold for Construction and Russia could have easily traded with someone else for Code of Laws. Barbarians!
Turn 10
Our Curragh sees a coastline that is seperate from us but can be gotten to by a Curragh. Perhaps an island with another civ on it, I'm not sure. Barbarians steal gold from Kanesh. 28, I think.
Admiral Kutzov-in the wings
mtgfreak
Sir Clive
Bede
viper275-Just went
MSTK-up next
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
I've been out of touch for a few days and just did a really quick review of all. FYI, I will be vacationing until 8/3/04 (skip me as needed until I report ready to play - don't wait the 24 hours for a got it). I may be able to check in, but I won't be able to play.
I'm in agreement that we continue to expand with settlers. Based on my really quick review, India is our weakest rival for now. Let's decide if japan or Russia is stronger and then take out the stronger when our military is ready. Whichever we go after, we ally with the other, thus weakening threat #2. It will probably take about 20 turns to reduce threat #1. When the alliance expires, we attack threat #2 if we have sufficient military. In either case we let the alliance go. Our invasion path for threat #1 should end near the borders of threat #2. When ready, we attack threat #2 on an invasion route that will end near borders with India. Rivals reduced or eliminated, rep preserved, expansion continues.
I'd like discussion on when and where to build FP and possible future movement of palace.
I'm in agreement that we continue to expand with settlers. Based on my really quick review, India is our weakest rival for now. Let's decide if japan or Russia is stronger and then take out the stronger when our military is ready. Whichever we go after, we ally with the other, thus weakening threat #2. It will probably take about 20 turns to reduce threat #1. When the alliance expires, we attack threat #2 if we have sufficient military. In either case we let the alliance go. Our invasion path for threat #1 should end near the borders of threat #2. When ready, we attack threat #2 on an invasion route that will end near borders with India. Rivals reduced or eliminated, rep preserved, expansion continues.
I'd like discussion on when and where to build FP and possible future movement of palace.
Sir Clive
King
Still looking good team !
@Admiral Agree with you and SensOfWthr . There is no one who is much of a threat to us at the moment so I am all for settling all available land before going to war. Agree we should start thinking about FP and possible Palace move. I will have a look once I have downloaded the save game.
@Bede - what is that utilty you pasted in your post which
shows stats for Territory / Terrain / Culture / Pollution / Happiness / Trading ?
Looks very useful to me rather than trawling through F1 - F10 . Does it show you anything you can't get from the F1 - F10 screens and maps , i.e could it be considered an exploit ?
Amended roster
Admiral Kutzov- Vacation until 3 Aug (since 8/3/04 will just confuse us English folks )
mtgfreak - In the wings
Sir Clive -
Bede -
viper275-Just went
MSTK-up next
Admiral Kutzov said:
@Admiral Agree with you and SensOfWthr . There is no one who is much of a threat to us at the moment so I am all for settling all available land before going to war. Agree we should start thinking about FP and possible Palace move. I will have a look once I have downloaded the save game.
@Bede - what is that utilty you pasted in your post which
shows stats for Territory / Terrain / Culture / Pollution / Happiness / Trading ?
Looks very useful to me rather than trawling through F1 - F10 . Does it show you anything you can't get from the F1 - F10 screens and maps , i.e could it be considered an exploit ?
Amended roster
Admiral Kutzov- Vacation until 3 Aug (since 8/3/04 will just confuse us English folks
)mtgfreak - In the wings
Sir Clive -
Bede -
viper275-Just went
MSTK-up next
