Clive1 - Monarch (Training ?) game

[Bede]

Another masterpiece of urban planning, Master Builder scoutsout.

You have nailed down 11 really productive sites.

One thing I am concerned about is the lack of hills. That is going to hurt once we get to needing shields, although mined plains will make up for some of it.

Anyone want to play for a 20K cultural victory?

 

[scoutsout]

One thing I am concerned about is the lack of hills. That is going to hurt once we get to needing shields, although mined plains will make up for some of it.

You guys all need to take stock in the amount of bonus grass you've got.

The Silk site is hard to tell, because all the grass is forested. The southwest site (2 whales after a Library) has no BG, but has a game/forest. The site S-S-SW of #2 has THREE BGs in 9 tiles, while the site SW of #2 has a pair,and should claim that other cow. The site next to the Tobacco has 2 BGs in 9 tiles. The SE site that can claim a whale with a library has a BG. The southernmost site has a BG.

... you get the picture...

Edit: Unit Factory, S-S-SW of #2. THREE BGs in nine tiles... grow it to size 6 and you should get 10 spt before corruption... I project 4-turn 3-Man Chariots, or Archers in 3. You should be able to put citizen #6 to work as a tax collector/scientist without slowing down unit builds...

 

[Sir Clive]

Some very informative points scoutsout - thank you very much.

I now realise why I am still only a Regent / Monarch level player at best

I am worried about our lack of military and I agree that we are probably going to have to go to war against Japan at some stage in the near future so I will bear that in mind when playing my turns.

I will go for a worker pump with the next city (SE in either my suggested A position or scoutsout's suggested position)
Settle 3rd city somewhere west of the capital and start on Barracks / Military,

A couple of other things that haven't been discussed -

1) When should we plan to build granary in our capital / 2nd town?

2) What is our attitdude if the AI ask for a 'tribute' ? I normally tend to cave in and on the odd occasion I have stood up to them they have almost inevitably declared war . I can usually cope with that at regent but I have absolutely no desire to go to war in the next ten turns seeing as we only have 4 warriors and no horses / iron .

I am therefore inclined to give the AI anything they ask for in my next 10 turns

 

[scoutsout]

@SirClive: Among all those sites I plotted out, the only one I feel strongly about is #2. The power of a city founded on a river is tremendous, and that's the best option I see for putting a city on a river. (You've only got a couple other options...)

On tribute: Best to give in until you're prepared to have them declare war. I'll let Bede tell you what can happen when you don't.

See the edit in my previous post regarding units. You've got a nice potential unit factory due south of Site #2...

 

[Sir Clive]

Anyone want to play for a 20K cultural victory?

I wouldn't mind trying for that (althouhg I am trying to improve my warmongering, my primary concern is to win )

I assume that means we will have to target some early wonders and we are going to have to get some high production cities going to do that ?

We are also going to need to get CB as quickly as possible and the Japanese already have it (and they are the only civ we know at the moment) so that will mean we have to discard the plan of going to war with them I suppose.

I prefer the peaceful / trading / diplomatic game, but since we have only met the Japanese so far I am inclined to think we may have to go to war with them fairly early if we are to take control of our land area which will make it difficult to keep content (and get cultural growth) until we get out of Despotism

 

[Sir Clive]

@SirClive: Among all those sites I plotted out, the only one I feel strongly about is #2. The power of a city founded on a river is tremendous, and that's the best option I see for putting a city on a river. (You've only got a couple other options...)

I thought #2 was on a river scoutsout - if it was I would definitely go for it . However it is one of those nasty ones where the bend of the river barely enters the square. I don't think it is on the river - if someone could confirm / deny I would be greatful !!

 

[Bede]

Just go see The Rising Sun Bede02. I think we have been at war since 3950BC and it was not planned as an AW game. All the other nations are an age ahead of us and we are hanging on by our toe-nails.

As for 20K being peaceful builder games I commend the LK67 thread to your attention. War started there at the end of the MA and lasted until the end of the Modern Era....

 

[Sir Clive]

I thought #2 was on a river scoutsout - if it was I would definitely go for it . However it is one of those nasty ones where the bend of the river barely enters the square. I don't think it is on the river - if someone could confirm / deny I would be greatful !!


Just realised that if it is plains but getting 1 gold it must be on the river. Is this a reliable way to tell ? The square to the east is also showing F1, G1, S1 bat seems to be well away from the river radius and is also a plains with no improvements ???

 

[SesnOfWthr]

Just go see The Rising Sun Bede02. I think we have been at war since 3950BC and it was not planned as an AW game. All the other nations are an age ahead of us and we are hanging on by our toe-nails.

Come now, Bede, our toenails? We have at least scraped back to our toes, right?

Sir clive, that is a reliable way to tell if a tile is considered on a river or not. A river tile always produces one more commerce than normal. Similarly, you can tell if water is fresh if it automatically produces two food instead of one. (useful before the map is revealed)

 

[MSTK]

Wow! I just got my internet connection back up, so I don't have to be on the bottom anymore.

 

[scoutsout]

Come now, Bede, our toenails? We have at least scraped back to our toes, right?

I could've sworn I got at least a fingernail into Henry's eye when I sacked the bartender... and I know I at least gave Mao the finger... but we digress... badly...

Sir clive, that is a reliable way to tell if a tile is considered on a river or not. A river tile always produces one more commerce than normal. Similarly, you can tell if water is fresh if it automatically produces two food instead of one. (useful before the map is revealed)

Sesn's right here. If it's vacant land, and showing +1gpt, then it's on the river.

Major Edit:

@Bede: 20k Culture?!?!?! I mean...

kul-cher!?!?

Aw c'mon, Brother Bede, where's the training value in that?!?!?

 

[MSTK]

Yeah! War! Forever! We better have Japan eliminated by 1000 AD!

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

My 5c on the dotmaps:
I for one don't see the need for the cramped version of scoutsout. I for one want core cities that can work at least 12, and some of them should have all 20. And there are a lot of nice spots, though they need aquaducts (but since I prefer SEA Civs anyway, I'm used to that ).

Thus, my proposal:
Scoutsout dot #2, no question.
Then, send a Settler with escort out to the Horses - your UU isn't lasting long, you should head for a better Gov, and immediately strike.
Otherwise, I'd go with Sir Clives site A, a coastal city SE of the hill, and the 2 coastal spots from scoutsout around the Wheat and the Whales. By that time, you should know more about the area N from your capital, and especially where Iron is.
And I see no need to hurry to any Luxuries, but Horses are REALLY crucial; remember, you're wasting your UU otherwise.

 

[Sir Clive]

Thus, my proposal:
Scoutsout dot #2, no question.
Then, send a Settler with escort out to the Horses - your UU isn't lasting long, you should head for a better Gov, and immediately strike.
Otherwise, I'd go with Sir Clives site A, a coastal city SE of the hill, and the 2 coastal spots from scoutsout around the Wheat and the Whales. By that time, you should know more about the area N from your capital, and especially where Iron is.
And I see no need to hurry to any Luxuries, but Horses are REALLY crucial; remember, you're wasting your UU otherwise.

I'm just about to play - I agree with your verdict on dot #2 and the horses but it will wast several turns turning the existing settler around and getting there . Since our capital is tied up building a settler for most of my turn I'm going to settle the southern city first so we can pump some workers out to get the capital as a fully functioning settler factory .

I'm no longer going out tonight so I should be able to get all my turns done and posted before all you US folks get home from work / school /wherever


My broad plan will be (in no particular order)


1) settle town 1 tile south of where settler currently is (pos A on my dotmap )2) MM Capital to become a settler factory
3) Continue scouting - hopefully make some more contacts.
4) Build some MP - our capital is going to get unhappier as it gets bigger and
I don't think I will get to hook up any lux this turn
5) Try not to mess up too much

I'm still not quite sure about the research - I'll just leave it as it us unless we manage to get CB off someone via a trade.

 

[scoutsout]

I think your plan is sound, Sir Clive. I would probably build a worker in the town you're about to build. I wouldn't sweat the MPs... pull that conscript warrior that you guys popped out of the goody hut, and bring him back to the capitol.... Conscript warriors aren't much good against barbs...and you've got scouts to pop huts with.

 

[Sir Clive]

OK - finished my turns - here is the summary.

Detailed turnlog , map and save will follow shortly.

Didn't turn out too bad in the end - the towns are very slow in development and only managed to build 2 units - the settler that was already started and a worker from the second town. The settler factory is still a way off being completed .

However trading and hut popping went reasonably well (I think ) and we are well ahead in gold out of the 3 known civs and up in techs.

Hittites 191g +5gpt, Japan 19 in treasury, India 0 in treasury

We are up Mysticism on India and up Masonry and Mysticism on Japan.

Map and turnlog to come (my first ever succession game - hence my first ever turnlog. Hope it doesnt stink too much )

 

[Sir Clive]

 

[Sir Clive]

Preturn check - Sliders are at 8/1/1 researching CB due in 31
1 settler, 1 worker , 1 scout, 4 warrior = 7gpt (Allowed 4) = -3gpt
Hattusas growth in 5 , Settler due in 9.

To get settler factory we need (Thanks SensOfWthr !)

irrigated wheat on plains: 3f, 1s
irrigated wheat on grass: 4f, 0s
Mined BG tile: 2f, 2s
Mined Sugar on plains: 2f, 2s
City center square: 2f,1s

For a total of 13f and 6s. For size 4, you need 8f, leaving a surplus of 5f.

For turn one : work the above, getting 6s
For turn two: Same as above, but the new citizen gets added to the forest, givinga free 2s, for a total of 14.
For turn three: move citizen from forestto mined grass, get 7s for a total of 21
For turn four: Same as above, second new citizen gets added to forest to get 2 free shields, total of 30.

Note: You must have the governor set to "emphasize production for this to work. You also have to move the citizen on every turn two.
so set governor to emphasise production, and I am going to need to mine the BG tile
and the sugar tile.

Everything else I leave as it is

2950 (1) - set governor in Hattasus to emphasis production
move worker to BG
move settler to SE
move warriors and workers - find nothing new
Japanese will not trade us either BW or CB
2900 (2) - worker starts mining BG
settle Tarsus - start building worker
move warriors and scout - find nothing new
we are now at 81G +5 gpt
Japanese will trade us either BW or CB for 81G + 4gpt
Seeing as we are going to be building workers / settlers for the next few turns
I will wait a bit and see if the price comes down . Hope this wasn't
2850 (3) - wandering warrior finds another horse alongside a river in the NW
wandering warrior finds a hut
another north wandering warrior uncovers a hut and 2 spices close to 2 cattle
and a lake.
We have 91G + 5gpt
Japanese will no longer trade us BW - will let us have CB for 75g + 3gpt
I might go for this if we had someone else to trade it to but I decide to
keep our cash.
2800 (4) - Warrior pops hut and gets another warrior
Warrior pops hut and gets warrior code. Also uncovers another spice.
Looks like a plethora of resources up here !
Japanese will let us have either BW or CB + 61G for warrior code
Accept and research switches automatically to Bronze working (50 turns). Leave it
there - next player can change if they want to !
2750 (5) - Warrior moves north and spots purple borders of India
Uncover more map with scout / warriors but nothing much of note
Contact India and get Bronze working + 10 g for Warrior code.
We are now up the Wheel on India (they have no cash to give us) and equal
on techs with Japan.
We have 167g + 6gpt
Score Hittites 81, Japan 72, India 72.
2700 (6) - Encroach Gandhi's borders by mistake and he asks us to leave (whoops)
Settler completes in Hattusas - switch to settler due in 30 since Hattusas is
now size 1. We need workers to get the settler factory functioning, but Tarsus isn't
pumping them out yet
2670 (7) - Get Masonry from India for the Wheel . Japan does not have masonry and only
has 19g so I'll try and wit until they have a tech to trade (although I guess
India will probably sell it to them anyway )
Move warriors , scout - get Mysticism from a hut.
I'm a little worried about our settler heading west from the capital - he
really should have some protection but all our military is out scouting. Think
I may have to switch Tarsus to a military unit next but I don't really like
building mil without barracks - some advice please !!
We're at 183g + 4pt
2630 (8) - Worker completes mine on BG near Hattusas. Settler moves West
Start moving 2 of the warriors back towards the capital (but they have a
long way to go )
2590 (9) - Settler continues to move West . No trades for tech available. One of the
north bound warriors spys the edge of what looks like an orange border.

2550 (10) - Scout pops a hut and an advanced Libyan village joins us !! We now
have Ugarit but it is right next door to an unknown Indian town Change production
to temple (due in 60 ) . Scout spots another hut .

 

[Sir Clive]

Save game

 

[Sir Clive]

mtgfreak -
Sir Clive - Just played
Bede - Up next - please post a 'got it' when you have !
Viper275 - In the wings
MSTK -
Admiral Kutzov -