CO-3: Immortal Emperors

[RRRaskolnikov]

Hi everyone, your plan is good Sweetacshon... my only comment is about tao missionaries, I am not sure we want to do that as long as our army needs improvements... but not a big thing imo. Let 's see what the others want to do with the save

Cheers

 

[colony]

Stuge would be up next then, your plan seems alright to me, although I'd wait until we have a good number of units before building missionaries.

 

[stuge]

I'll play according to sweet's plan, although I'm going to omit the missionaries.

 

[stuge]

A GS popped in Moscow and was left sleeping. I thought that the best use for him would be a GA right before the war, so that we can switch anarchy-free to nationalism, mercantilism and theocracy. (Merc because war with Darius will kill our only foreign trade routes.)

The globe won't quite finish before rifling, but it's underway.

I forgot to gift edu, but Isabella's a little happier now.

She's just so adorable when she's angry. (Remember to cancel that in ten.)

Otherwise the army is starting to assemble. Things will get exciting again. I can't wait!

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Hi ,

got it... can't look at the save now, will post the plan for my turn before playing...

Cheers

PS: I find Isabella adorable too

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Hi team!,

Well, we will have rifling in 4 turns... and the globe in 8. The globe is already whippable though, I think it can be nice if it is whipped (or finished from whip overflow) the turn we got rifling...
what are the options for techs after rifling? -> Steel? -> Democraty? -> Astro?
I think I will start a GA with the scientist as soon as rifling comes in... and obviously switch to nationhood...
Also when do we want to declare? What will be our tactical approach to destroy Darius?
I am thinking the western cities are the best path: Parsagrade, and the city immediatly west of Moscow first, then on Persopolis...

Ideas? (@Sweetacshon: btw, I 've just realized that perhaps I've stolen your turns, so as I haven't play yet, feel free to got it )

Cheers

 

[colony]

Ideas? (@Sweetacshon: btw, I 've just realized that perhaps I've stolen your turns, so as I haven't play yet, feel free to got it )

Cheers

He posted earlier that he'd be back today, so I'd assume he'll be able to play this set. I'll have a proper look at the save later, but I suspect that we'll need some economic techs soon, so Astronomy could be a good idea if we can't trade for it. Don't forget to switch to Theocracy too if we aren't already in it.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

He posted earlier that he'd be back today, so I'd assume he'll be able to play this set. I'll have a proper look at the save later, but I suspect that we'll need some economic techs soon, so Astronomy could be a good idea if we can't trade for it. Don't forget to switch to Theocracy too if we aren't already in it.

OK no pb, I will play next! We still need to talk about war preparation though, as this will be (after the Cathy's rush) the most important step toward victory imo... with darius's land, nothing will stop us!

 

[Sweetacshon]

OK, I'm back, but maybe you should play, RRRaskolnikov, as I need time to check saves and catch up on SGs.

A GA is not a bad idea, but somehow it feels wrong to me to draft (or whip) in a GA due to the bonuses. Maybe it's just me, and I certainly haven't run any numbers on it. That is also not a vote against a GA.

The western cities are certainly more mature, and closer to his capital, so, yeah, that's probably the way to go. We might just use a holding force for that city west of Moscow instead of taking it early (or at all), which would free up troops for the main push, but I'll have to check the save again.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Hi,
I was thinking of drafting only in Moscow with the Globe (exception of emergency drafts), the GA is more to switch civics without anarchy...
I can play probably tonight... if you can before that, do it!

Cheers

 

[stuge]

We should definetly aim for just containing the city west of Moscow. That city isn't anything spectacular, it has zero production and Darius can't reinforce it. But that stack inside would require lots of siege to take care of, and our siege should head for the Persian core.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Report time!

Played 15 turns, mainly building roads, cutting every trees possible (not in city radius), drafting Moscow every other turns (yeah, you can forget the size 17 Moscow )... in order to be ready to crush Darius... I think we are now in 1325 AD and we can declare next turn...

Details:

t270: We put all spy points on Darius so we can drop city defenses in the really near future... Izzy and Bis are on WHEOOHRN... OB with Bismarck (diplo).

t272: Whip the Globe in Moscow.

t273: Izzy goes in GA...

T274: Rifling is in... Start Astro to trade resources (I planned to trade it). Sell maps to Izzy for 150g. We also start our GA! We go in Nationhood+FR.

Spoiler :

I know Stuge suggested Theocraty, but I wanted to improve relations with the other continent (as we will kill our old friends...) as well as improve the happiness (most of our troops will soon be on the battlefield and not policing our citizens)... I hope it's not a problem...

T275: Trade for Astro against Nationalism with Gandhi.

Spoiler :

OB with Izzy, trade dyes against one of our silks. We start on Military Tradition to be able to build those nice cavaleries...
OB with Washington.

T277: Darius build the Kremlin in Persopolis

Spoiler :

We trade Nationalism to Washington against his maps (to be able to trade resources to Bismarck and Washington).

Spoiler :

t279: We sell a surplus of corn to Bis for 7 gpt...

t280: We met the last AI... say welcome to Toku! The nice boy is at war with all its continent, namely Izzy, Bismarch and Washington

Spoiler :

He grabs Valencia this turn though...

t281: We renegotiate the sugar deal with Izzy (13 gpt). And also refuse to war Toku on Izzy's request.

t282: MT is in ... We stop science to make some upgrades... (CR3 axes )
We start constitution... (I thought at chemistry and steel but decided against it as some AIs have already Chemistry and constitution-> democraty will be better to trade...)
Izzy takes back Cordoba...

t283: 2 pop whip stables everywhere (cavs are better with 2 promos ). Switch to mercantilism as it's the last turn of the GA and we will soon attack Darius... (we need to tech to economics fast though... perhaps that would have been a better choice than constitution finally)

t284: Slavery random event in Yeha...

t285: same, I chose to loose one pop this time...
Toku make peace with Bismarck and Wash this turn...
We got a scientist this turn, he is waiting orders in Moscow...

Spoiler :

Power graph:

Spoiler :

SoD:

Spoiler :

Tech situation:

Spoiler :

Notes:
I only drafted Moscow...
We have 1470 EP on Darius to revolt cities... a spy is in Parsagrades and another in the other border city. A third is heading to Persopolis...
Our main (only) SoD is ready to invade next turn...
Darius has airships (but no rifles )...

Have fun!

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Roster duty (guessed, not sure):

Sweetacshon -> up!
Colony -> on deck!
Ralph
Stuge
Raskolnikov

Cheers

 

[Sweetacshon]

Got it. Looks like it's time to get the on.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Yeah, I think it's until Darius is dead now...
I don't think Gandhi will be bribed but we should look at Bismarck to see if a bribe is necesary before declaring...

Cheers

 

[Sweetacshon]

The turnset went fine, and the enemy capital is ours. Actually, I made the mistake of overestimating Darius' military abilities, and declared later than I should've, but this just means we'll steam roll him. He has airships and grenades, but just think of them as mosqitos. He also has an annoying frigate near Moscow, and is pillaging his own improvements in our territory to the west of Moscow. I stopped the turn we took Persepolis, because it is time to move to the next phase of the war, as well as do a round of trading and get back on the research track. Upgrading was expensive, and there are still about 6 maces collecting CR promotions, so we need about 2000ish in the bank to maintain flexibility. We got another GG, what to do with him?

If we want to give up our MT monopoly, Gandhi has all sorts of things... constitution, economics, chemistry, etc, while we can get chem from Izzy for Lib+ <-I suggest this. Oh, I almost forgot, Fred and Wash were bribed into our war, but I haven't seen anything from them yet. Keep an eye out for a peace deal there.


So, the way forward? Keep carving out Darius, I'm not sure whether pushing into his heart, or giving Persepolis workroom by taking the coastal Christian holy city is better. Probably should trade for chem and tech steel. The GS will bulb part of SM, but I have held off due to our GL, but that's not the end of the world. A few banks are done (whip in St P.), but when it is clear we have beaten down Darius, we can get the rest in with Wall St.

Spoiler the details :

Turn 285/750 (1325 AD) [20-Dec-2008 11:10:59]
Axeman 10 (Aksum) (Axeman) promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Oromo Warrior promoted: Drill III
Oromo Warrior promoted: Drill III
Maceman 1 (Lalibela) (Maceman) promoted: City Raider I
Maceman 2 (Lalibela) (Maceman) promoted: City Raider I
Maceman promoted: City Raider I
Maceman promoted: City Raider I
Rifleman promoted: Combat I
Rifleman promoted: Combat I
Rifleman promoted: Combat I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Sweetacshon: Well, the stack looks good, but we are missing defenders for the counter attack and the Ergili garrison including airships is a little scary. I'll have to rejig things before I'm happy to attack.
Sweetacshon: I also miss the naval support, but rifles will just have to do.
Maceman promoted: City Raider I

After End Turn:
A Rifleman was drafted in Addis Ababa
Moscow grows to size 8
Moscow finishes: Stable
Addis Ababa grows to size 8

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Darius I(Persia) from 'Bureaucracy' to 'Free Speech'
Civics Change: Darius I(Persia) from 'Slavery' to 'Emancipation'

Turn 286/750 (1330 AD) [20-Dec-2008 11:37:16]

After End Turn:
A Rifleman was drafted in St. Petersburg
Novgorod finishes: Trebuchet
Lalibela grows to size 12
Lalibela finishes: Cavalry
Yeha grows to size 5

Turn 287/750 (1335 AD) [20-Dec-2008 11:40:09]
Gondar begins: Bank (18 turns)
Novgorod begins: Rifleman (15 turns)
Lalibela begins: Rifleman (4 turns)

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Moscow
Aksum finishes: Cavalry
Moscow grows to size 9
A Town was built near Gondar

Turn 288/750 (1340 AD) [20-Dec-2008 11:47:00]
Aksum begins: Bank (10 turns)
Sweetacshon: This waiting for upgrade cash without banks is for the birds. Tweak cities for cash.
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I

After End Turn:
A Village was built near Yeha
A Village was built near Gondar

Turn 289/750 (1345 AD) [20-Dec-2008 11:53:43]
Diplomacy (War Request): Tokugawa (Japan) asks CO-3 (Ethiopia) to declare war on Isabella (Spain); CO-3 REFUSES.
Sweetacshon: Toku wants us to attack Izzy. No can do. I'm afraid we have enough on our hands.
Cavalry 1 (Lalibela) (Cavalry) promoted: Flanking I
Cavalry 1 (Lalibela) (Cavalry) promoted: Sentry

After End Turn:
Draft anger has decreased in Moscow
Gondar finishes: Cavalry
Moscow grows to size 10
Lalibela finishes: Rifleman

Turn 290/750 (1350 AD) [20-Dec-2008 11:57:46]
Lalibela begins: Cavalry (4 turns)
Sweetacshon: Gems pop near Lalibela?! If the RNG is going to be that kind, perhaps it's time to attack!
St. Petersburg begins: Bank (30 turns)
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Cavalry 2 (Aksum) (Cavalry) promoted: Combat I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider II
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider II
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet 1 (Novgorod) (Trebuchet) promoted: City Raider I

After End Turn:
A Rifleman was drafted in Addis Ababa
Gondar grows to size 14
St. Petersburg grows to size 15
A Town was built near Gondar
Addis Ababa grows to size 8
Addis Ababa finishes: Trebuchet

Turn 291/750 (1355 AD) [20-Dec-2008 12:04:30]
Addis Ababa begins: Trebuchet (8 turns)
Sweetacshon: Damn, forgot to retreat the workers. Have to attack next turn instead.

After End Turn:
Novgorod grows to size 12
Yeha grows to size 6
Yeha finishes: Forge

Other Player Actions:
Tokugawa (Japan) and Isabella (Spain) have signed a peace treaty
Civics Change: Gandhi(India) from 'Mercantilism' to 'State Property'

Turn 292/750 (1360 AD) [20-Dec-2008 12:09:49]
Yeha begins: Bank (300 turns)
Rifleman promoted: Combat I
Sweetacshon: OK, we're off.
Rifleman promoted: Combat I
Rifleman promoted: Combat I
CO-3 (Ethiopia) declares war on Darius I (Persia)

After End Turn:
A Town was built near Gondar
Moscow grows to size 11
A Town was built near Moscow

Other Player Actions:
Bismarck (Germany) declares war on CO-3 (Ethiopia)
Washington (America) declares war on CO-3 (Ethiopia)
Attitude Change: Darius I (Persia) towards CO-3 (Ethiopia), from 'Pleased' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Bismarck (Germany), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Bismarck (Germany) towards CO-3 (Ethiopia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Civics Change: Tokugawa(Japan) from 'Slavery' to 'Caste System'
Civics Change: Isabella(Spain) from 'Slavery' to 'Caste System'

Turn 293/750 (1365 AD) [20-Dec-2008 12:17:10]
Sweetacshon: Darius bribes Fred and his vassal Washo into war with us He also has grenades floating around.
A Lumbermill was destroyed near Zohak

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Trebuchet
Lalibela grows to size 13
Lalibela finishes: Cavalry

Turn 294/750 (1370 AD) [20-Dec-2008 12:23:52]
Moscow begins: Cavalry (12 turns)
Lalibela begins: Cavalry (4 turns)
Rifleman promoted: Guerilla I
Cavalry 2 (Aksum) (Cavalry) promoted: Pinch
While attacking in Persian territory at Pasargadae, Cavalry 2 (Aksum) loses to Persian Longbowman (1.68/6) (Prob Victory: 79.1%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Pasargadae, Axeman 3 (Gondar) (12.04/14) defeats Persian Grenadier (Prob Victory: 99.1%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Pasargadae, Axeman 4 (Aksum) (8.54/14) defeats Persian Musketman (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Pasargadae, Rifleman (7.28/14) defeats Persian Longbowman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Pasargadae, Rifleman (9.52/14) defeats Persian Musketman (Prob Victory: 88.5%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Pasargadae, Rifleman (6.16/14) defeats Persian Knight (Prob Victory: 99.0%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Pasargadae, Oromo Warrior (9.00/9) defeats Persian Catapult (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Pasargadae, Maceman (6.72/8) defeats Persian Longbowman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Hinduism has spread: Pasargadae
Captured Pasargadae (Darius I)
Pasargadae begins: Theatre (76 turns)
A Lumbermill was destroyed near Lalibela
Rifleman promoted: City Garrison I
Rifleman promoted: Combat I
Rifleman promoted: Combat I
Rifleman promoted: Combat I

After End Turn:
Lalibela finishes: Cavalry

Turn 295/750 (1375 AD) [20-Dec-2008 12:37:00]
Lalibela begins: Cavalry (4 turns)
Sweetacshon: The AI doing the old dribs and drabs thing.
Sweetacshon: The main stack presses on toward the capital.
Oromo Warrior promoted: Drill IV
Cavalry 4 (Lalibela) (Cavalry) promoted: Combat I
Cavalry 5 (Lalibela) (Cavalry) promoted: Combat I
Cavalry 4 (Lalibela) (Cavalry) promoted: Combat II
Cavalry 5 (Lalibela) (Cavalry) promoted: Combat II
While attacking in Ethiopian territory near Assyrian, Cavalry 4 (Lalibela) loses to Persian Grenadier (9.24/12) (Prob Victory: 79.3%)
While attacking in Ethiopian territory at Lalibela, Cavalry 5 (Lalibela) (15.00/15) defeats Persian Grenadier (Prob Victory: 79.3%)
Rifleman 1 (Lalibela) (Rifleman) promoted: Combat I
While attacking in Ethiopian territory at Lalibela, Rifleman 1 (Lalibela) (14.00/14) defeats Persian Grenadier (Prob Victory: 90.4%)

After End Turn:
Aksum finishes: Bank
A Village was built near Gondar
A Village was built near Madurai
A Town was built near Novgorod
Moscow grows to size 12

Other Player Actions:
A Cottage was destroyed near Ergili
A Cottage near Ergili was destroyed by Persian Knight
A Road near Ergili was destroyed by Persian Knight

Turn 296/750 (1380 AD) [20-Dec-2008 12:49:42]
Aksum begins: Cavalry (6 turns)

After End Turn:
Lalibela finishes: Cavalry
Addis Ababa grows to size 9
A Village was built near Yeha

Other Player Actions:
A Fishing Boats was destroyed near Moscow
A Fishing Boats near Moscow was destroyed by Persian Frigate

Turn 297/750 (1385 AD) [20-Dec-2008 12:57:04]
Lalibela begins: Cavalry (4 turns)

Other Player Actions:
While defending in Persian territory at Persepolis, Rifleman (11.90/14) defeats Persian Catapult (Prob Victory: 95.8%)
A Hamlet was built near Ergili
A Village near Ergili was destroyed by Persian Knight

Turn 298/750 (1390 AD) [20-Dec-2008 13:03:26]
Diplomacy: Gandhi (India) offers to trade Constitution to CO-3 (Ethiopia) for Military Tradition
Cavalry 3 (Gondar) (Cavalry) promoted: Combat I
Cavalry 6 (Lalibela) (Cavalry) promoted: Combat I
While attacking in Persian territory at Persepolis, Trebuchet 1 (Novgorod) loses to Persian Grenadier (10.20/12) (Prob Victory: 12.9%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Persepolis, Trebuchet loses to Persian Grenadier (8.40/12) (Prob Victory: 30.5%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Persepolis, Trebuchet loses to Persian Grenadier (4.80/12) (Prob Victory: 48.1%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Persepolis, Trebuchet loses to Persian Grenadier (6.48/12) (Prob Victory: 50.9%)
While attacking, Trebuchet decimates Persian Grenadier (Prob Victory: 69.5%)
While attacking, Trebuchet escapes from Persian Musketman (Prob Victory: 80.6%)
While attacking, Trebuchet decimates Persian Longbowman (Prob Victory: 92.9%)
While attacking, Trebuchet decimates Persian Grenadier (Prob Victory: 94.0%)
While attacking, Trebuchet escapes from Persian Knight (Prob Victory: 92.5%)
Ivan the Terrible (Great General) born in Gondar
While attacking in Persian territory at Persepolis, Cavalry 1 (Lalibela) (11.10/15) defeats Persian Longbowman (Prob Victory: 97.9%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Persepolis, Maceman 1 (Lalibela) (5.28/8) defeats Persian Longbowman (Prob Victory: 95.8%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Persepolis, Maceman 2 (Lalibela) (1.60/8) defeats Persian Grenadier (Prob Victory: 92.6%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Persepolis, Maceman (8.00/8) defeats Persian Catapult (Prob Victory: 99.0%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Persepolis, Maceman (4.64/8) defeats Persian Grenadier (Prob Victory: 98.5%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Persepolis, Maceman (7.68/8) defeats Persian Grenadier (Prob Victory: 99.8%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Persepolis, Axeman 10 (Aksum) (7.68/8) defeats Persian Longbowman (Prob Victory: 99.8%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Persepolis, Rifleman (12.60/14) defeats Persian Musketman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Persian territory at Persepolis, Rifleman (12.46/14) defeats Persian Knight (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Christianity has spread: Persepolis
Hinduism has spread: Persepolis
Captured Persepolis (Darius I)
Persepolis begins: Theatre (76 turns)
While attacking in Ethiopian territory at Pasargadae, Rifleman (9.24/14) defeats Persian Grenadier (Prob Victory: 76.5%)
While attacking in Ethiopian territory at Pasargadae, Rifleman (9.80/14) defeats Persian Knight (Prob Victory: 95.7%)

Sweetacshon:: I'll stop here. Persepolis is ours, and we can decide how to proceed.

Battle Stats:
Units victorious while attacking: 20
Units victorious while defending: 1
Units withdrawing while attacking: 3
Units defeated while attacking: 6 (<- 2x75%+ losses and 4 trebs)
Units defeated while defending: 0
Units escaping while attacking: 2
View attachment CO-3 AD-1390.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Hi all ,

@Sweetacshon: are you sure we can trade chemistry against lib, from the screenshot you posted, only Darius and gandhi have it... but if it's the case, we should definately go for it .
I think we should go all out for war against Darius, so tech path could be democraty - > artillery? what dou you think guys? or perhaps make a detour for MS in order to make a military academy... otherwise the GG can be settled in our HE city.
And we should make peace with the germans asap... but he can't do anything while he hasn't astro anyways...

Cheers

 

[Sweetacshon]

Nope, sorry- my bad, I meant SM with Izzy for lib and a bit of gold, iirc.

I suspect Darius will be gone before we get arty or cannon online (or it'll be close run - still, it's always nice to have handy), so maybe we should look further ahead. In fact, what's the plan in general? Kill Gandhi, move OS, or turtle and rebuild, teching ahead for another military advantage?

 

[colony]

Got it, although I'm afraid I won't be able to look at things properly until tomorrow, this time of year's always very busy for me, just too much stuff to sort out at the end of term. I think we should keep the war against Darius going until we control the continent, otherwise we'll always be having trouble with revolts and his culture. If he doesn't escape to an island somewhere there won't be any motherland unhappiness either. Will post more later tonight or tomorrow morning.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Small MM point: if captured cities are not starving, building culture until first border pop is more efficient (depends on available tiles) than whipping a theater... obviously most will be starving so whipping of granaries, theaters, lib, and courts is good play

about the general plan: kill Darius... we need to decide on victory condition before make other plans I think... but once we have Darius land, crushing Gandhi won't be that hard imo