CO2 logic

[Victoria]

I just looked in random events.xml and there are deforestation modifiers

Deforestation of 10% = -1 point per turn
25% = 1
40% = 3
100% = 5

More importantly there are deforestation modifies to co2

Max average deforestation = 0.0 gives -20% CO2 modifier
1.0 = 0%
2.0 = 10%
3.0 = 30%
5.0 = 50%

It looks like the 2 go together, if so...Something like...
0-9% average deforestation gives a -20% CO2 modifier
10-24% gives 0%
26-39% gives 10%
40-49% gives 30%
50%+ gives a 50%

If you are wanting to work out the effects of other things accurately I guess you need to set these to 0 including the -20% at the start.

Maps.xml does hint that temp and CO2 are the same thing, is there a reason they may not be?

So each civ needs to accumulate 250,000 CO2 points to cause a rise, on average.
When 10% of the world is deforested carbon emission will increase by 20%
Uranium still CO2’s, just 17 times less than coal so if there are lots of GDR’s things will still get heated.
Good stuff.

 

[Disgustipated]

On a side note, why the h... do we need to research computers to be able to build sea barriers. Wouldn't something like ... Civil Engineering be the more logical choice?

Kind of strange. I don't like diverting that tech path if going science victory since it isn't needed for science victory. Though still quite useful for cultural victory. I think they wanted these to represent future barriers, not something from the 19th century that civil engineering would represent. Computer is still a strange choice, however. Maybe robotics would be better. Though that's too late in the game currently.

I find myself beelining computers, but often I still have cities that can't get it done in time. Question, is there any point in finishing building flood barriers after everything already flooded?

 

[Pietato]

Computers makes sense for current barriers which have monitoring systems in them. But it still comes way too late on huge deity maps.

 

[GymCee]

Kind of strange. I don't like diverting that tech path if going science victory since it isn't needed for science victory. Though still quite useful for cultural victory. I think they wanted these to represent future barriers, not something from the 19th century that civil engineering would represent. Computer is still a strange choice, however. Maybe robotics would be better. Though that's too late in the game currently.

I find myself beelining computers, but often I still have cities that can't get it done in time. Question, is there any point in finishing building flood barriers after everything already flooded?

Flooded but not submerged tiles are recovered after the barriers are complete. Some features are permanently lost but not sure which.

 

[Pietato]

I think if a tile is 2 metres submerged it is lost. Something like that anyway.

 

[Uberfrog]

I just looked in random events.xml and there are deforestation modifiers

Deforestation of 10% = -1 point per turn
25% = 1
40% = 3
100% = 5

More importantly there are deforestation modifies to co2

Max average deforestation = 0.0 gives -20% CO2 modifier
1.0 = 0%
2.0 = 10%
3.0 = 30%
5.0 = 50%

It looks like the 2 go together, if so...Something like...
0-9% average deforestation gives a -20% CO2 modifier
10-24% gives 0%
26-39% gives 10%
40-49% gives 30%
50%+ gives a 50%

If you are wanting to work out the effects of other things accurately I guess you need to set these to 0 including the -20% at the start.

Maps.xml does hint that temp and CO2 are the same thing, is there a reason they may not be?

So each civ needs to accumulate 250,000 CO2 points to cause a rise, on average.
When 10% of the world is deforested carbon emission will increase by 20%
Uranium still CO2’s, just 17 times less than coal so if there are lots of GDR’s things will still get heated.
Good stuff.

It would be nice if the in-game climate info included the current % deforestation. I know I might be chopping a lot, but it's hard to judge how much of the world's forest that represents.

 

[Victoria]

It would be nice if the in-game climate info included the current % deforestation. I know I might be chopping a lot, but it's hard to judge how much of the world's forest that represents.

Yes! There is nothing in the logs either, nor that I can find in firetuner.
I might have to re-install SQLite

 

[kaspergm]

It would be nice if the in-game climate info included the current % deforestation. I know I might be chopping a lot, but it's hard to judge how much of the world's forest that represents.

There IS an in-game info on the level of deforestation? Hover mouse over the "Global contribution":
Screenshot

 

[Uberfrog]

There IS an in-game info on the level of deforestation? Hover mouse over the "Global contribution":
Screenshot

Sometimes I feel like the Firaxis development team must be really good at hide and seek.

 

[Victoria]

Sometimes I feel like the Firaxis development team must be really good at hide and seek.

Yeah, but thankfully @kaspergm is part of a quidditch team.

 

[funkymunky]

Thanks for all the info guys. It's all been very helpful.

 

[Takfloyd]

Computers makes sense for current barriers which have monitoring systems in them. But it still comes way too late on huge deity maps.

It really doesn't. I'm still playing my first single player game of GS, but it's a huge Deity map and I had flood barriers up in all my coastal cities before any flooding started.

It would have been close though - the turns to sea level rise was down to just 1 turn when I got up my last couple of barriers via chopping... but then the next turn the sea level didn't rise, the climate change level didn't go up, and now it says 9 turns until sea level rise.

Anyone have any idea how it can go from 1 to 9 turns like that? It doesn't look like there was any significant change in emissions. My coal plants are still running for sure.

 

[Victoria]

Anyone have any idea how it can go from 1 to 9 turns like that?

So the sea level rise redcued? They must have some estimate on usage that gets re-assessed... Or maybe something to do with your chop because that can cause issues. Did you chop the current turn when it dropped? and if So did you chop more last turn than this?

EDIT: Here is an immortal game I just played.... I am not big on using coal anyway but did end up using Oil in the end. This is the graph for all CO2 in the game I believe. The smoothness indicates that deforestation is being done correctly (I suspected it was not) But you can see there is sort of a linear change when deforestation levels change like turn 189.

Do we know the formula for coastal defences?

Here I am at T207 on immortal and I am the only one polluting... wierd I am the only one. I use no power plants, just some few units.

IN the same game I have 2 flood barriers being built at once... one costs 100 production and one costs 200 production... maybe you can lock them in?

 

[Aristos]

Did you notice that cities do not get destroyed when they are flooded/submerged?

(NO, they had no barriers)

 

[FlyinPhil]

Did you notice that cities do not get destroyed when they are flooded/submerged?

(NO, they had no barriers)

My understanding is they do lose some population if on a tile that gets submerged, but not destroyed entirely? Haven't actually managed to trigger anything more than 1 meter rise, and none of my cities have sat at that level yet, so no empirical data for you.

 

[Aristos]

My understanding is they do lose some population if on a tile that gets submerged, but not destroyed entirely? Haven't actually managed to trigger anything more than 1 meter rise, and none of my cities have sat at that level yet, so no empirical data for you.

I had two nice islands close to my shores in my last game, that I noticed were very low level (all tiles), max 2 meters. Thus, I deliberately avoided settling them as I was already building up for a super production center game. Then I watched England occupy both islands, and smiled. Centuries later, with my production machine at full throttle, making the world a submerged better place, I saw the islands slowly disappear, but the cities floated there, untouched, defiant... submerged.

Not cool. Stupid, in fact. As if the game were trolling the Global Warmers... "see, it's a hoax, cities still can thrive under water."

 

[FlyinPhil]

Not cool. Stupid, in fact. As if the game were trolling the Global Warmers... "see, it's a hoax, cities still can thrive under water."

My honest guess is Firaxis couldn't decide on a good mechanism for destroying cities, and punted to "just keep the cities even though all the surrounding tiles are gone."

EDIT: granted I destroy cities by razing frequently *eye roll*

 

[Victoria]

It is unclear - to me - how many degrees temperature increase is needed for each level of the climate change meter to increase.

OK so 2000 CO2 level is 1 point of global temperature as said earlier
I just hit this at 2000 CO2... however if we look at the picture it is indicating this was 2 points and 1 point for my disaster level.

And the next pic indicates every 1000 CO2 after the first melt rises the temperature (the 3/9 figure for phase VII). This is quite linear while CO2 ramps up pretty fast

However... there is a bug. The climate does not get updated every turn!. So sometimes the climate should have shifted but has not. Did I say sometimes.... track 5-6 turns and you will see it stop rising for a turn or 2 then suddenly shoot up to catch up.

The Flood Barrier costs are as quoted on the tile.
Standard cost = 100 prod per Coastal lowland tile (including the city)
And the value when sea levels rise is standard cost + (climate change phase * standard cost)

Considering just how little CO2 is required for each climate phase it will ramp up pretty fast
1 lowland tile and phase 4 will be 500 prod but 3 lowland tiles a phase 4 will be 1500 prod....
It will most noticeable when it was 300 prod last turn and suddenly becomes 600 prod, then 9 turns later 900 prod, then 7 turns later 1200 prod, then 4 turns later 1500.
Careful where you settle and what land you buy.
....
and remember ... once you get coal you only have 7,234 science to get for computers.

So how much in laymans terms is the carbon footprint (roughly)
Ura = 0.75 carbon
Oil = 2 Carbon
Coal = 3.3 Carbon (10 things using coal will create a point of global warming in 30 turns)

Each unit will use an entire resource each turn.
Each Power Plant may only use 1/4 of a unit but rounds up each turn. (uranium can power 4 times as many things)

workings
Uranium = 16(KW) * 48(CO2)/1000 = 0.768 carbon foot print
OIL = 4(KW) * 490(CO2) / 1000 = 1.960 Carbon Footprint
Coal = 4(KW) * 820(CO2) / 1000 = 3.28 carbon footprint

 

[orasis]

The mechanic really needs to be reworked. It's fun though, I mean GS is probably the first CIV game that has made anything past the early/mid industrial fun... but in my opinion the c02 levels need more info, more methods to mitigate/generate and more damage.

If my empire is inland... I purposely just get our C02 output as high as possible to hurt enemies with coastal cities.

 

[Victoria]

I have 2 playstyles, one fastest and one immersive long game.
For the fast games I tend to finish before it is an issue.
For longer games I just treat lowland tiles as submerged from the beginning unless I am going to push science hard (which is then not immersive)
Most things can be avoided with dams and aqueducts but I had a lovely Petra city last night with about 12 desert hills but sandstorms just kept wrecking everything. It was a pain that made me cautious of bothering with such a city again.