Coastal Starts

[Loge]

Say you have a coastal start with a couple of seafood resources. What's a typical build line 1. if you start with fishing 2. if you start without fishing?

 

[Lord Chambers]

If I start with fishing I'm only building a workboat if going worker-first would create him before he has the technology to stay busy working. If I do build that workboat it gets built on the highest-hammer yielding tile in my city, hopefully the three hammer forested hill.

If I don't start with fishing I'm almost definetely going for worker-first. As always, the priority then becomes getting the technologies which allow the worker to improve my highest-yield tiles (agriculture and animal husbandry, not masonry), and then broneworking to chop out whatever boats/workers I need.

In short, coastal starts are usually the same thing as inland starts: Get your worker on high food tiles and then start chopping. But sometimes the start has so little land that getting a worker early is just a waste.

 

[macmert]

Well if a coastal city has a couple of seafood resources and I have fishing, I try to go for bronzeworking to..

1. Start chopping
2. Start whipping

Then I whip a worker, then a fishing boat in order to work the tiles, chop a fishing boat and so on...

If you have a lot of seafood resources it will be much easier to whip because the city will grow up quickly...

If I dont have fishing, I search it first then go to bronzeworking

Well that is what I do for noble though...

 

[Iranon]

Workboat first if I have a 3-hammer tile or little to do for a worker. Otherwise, worker first, grow building workboats (i.e. research Fishing straight away if I don't start with it).

 

[futurehermit]

I am not a fan of coastal starts at all, since they delay horizontal expansion I find, at least compared to inland starts. I've started threads about this before though, so won't repeat myself here.

Definitely what Iranon said: a workboat or two first, especially if the worker won't have much to do. worst case scenario, you don't start with fishing, and you don't have much for a worker to do. in that case build a warrior/scout while researching fishing. usually though you can go worker or workboat first. in any case then you want to get to bw so you can chop/whip in order to expand.

then, in many cases with coastal starts, i want to get sailing/masonry done so i can get started on the great lighthouse. this wonder is the saving grace imo for coastal starts.

 

[madscientist]

With seafood:

If I have fishing, then a workboat working teh highest hammer tile.

If no fishing it's a worker if I have a tech and something for them to do (farm, mine, resource, road).

No workboat, no immediate improvements then it's a scout or warrior depending if I have hunting.

If NO Seafood. play the map

Regarding Futurehermit's non-preference for coastal starts, I respectively disagree. I prefer them because

1) Most of the time seafood is present which is great for health, food, and commerce.

2) Often the happy cap early on blocks working food, and I like to work those 2 commerce tiles (3 for financial) when the cap has been reached.

3) Trade route yield is always higher.

4) Harbor. 50% boost to trade route yield and up to three bonus health (crab, clam, fish).

5) Sailing. Allows trade with your own cities even if far away. This allows faster and more efficient REXing. Also lighthouses offer the ealiest food improvement (until civil service or Biology).

6) Option of the Great L:ighhouse and Colossus.

7) Defense. Basically you are protected from attack from barbs or the AI from at least 1 if not more directions. Usually one or 2 cities protect your capital from attack at all. The downside is you are succeptible to Barb Galleys.

8) Rarely have I ever encountered a coastal capital with insufficient early production.

Now, come later in the game, post Civil Service, and internal capital may be better if you have alot of cottages. Simply move the capital.

In short, I always find coastal starts to be extrememly powerful early commerce centers. The exception is if a land locked capital has several precious metals or several floodplains for cottages.

 

[vanatteveldt]

there's a strategy article out there that considers a number of possibilities, ie with or without 3-hammer tile available, and does the math. I couldn't find the article, though, so this post is not very helpful... :-(

 

[Soirana]

I am not a fan of coastal starts at all, since they delay horizontal expansion I find, at least compared to inland starts. I've started threads about this before though, so won't repeat myself here.

I actually hate that seafood too especially coastal which will ned some protection later on. And it defintely slows expansion.

About that to build... depends on that is on land. Irrigated corn vs double clams i'd go for worker.

double fish vs rice pick boats...

About cases without three hammers... IMO, it is best to grow to size ASAP two and work two 1F2H tiles. But well again that needs some micromanagement.

Another case is gunning for GLH first you will have lighthouse early so these clams and crabs are obviously better. Second by you have some early research by seafood which will be needed to get through BW+GLH techs in time on a reasonable dif level.

 

[Hereditary Rule]

I'm beginning to value fishing as a starting tech much higher than I used to. I used to hate it b/c I would say, "what about all those games when I start inland?" Even then, it's at least giving you a discount when you eventually tech pottery. Workboat first coastal starts with fishing can just be explosive. I'd rather have Fishing and start inland than start coastal with no fishing.

 

[RichPowers]

Coastal starts are my favorite, especially as Hannibal. My current game has 3 crabs and 2 fish in Cathage's BFC! The game actually generated a really awesome map: Kahn and I are duking it out on this thin "ring" of land that surrounds a huge inland lake. So my next priority is to build a canal out of forts so my inland and deepwater fleets can merge

As a coastal/trading Civ, I feel a greater urgency to expand and explore so I can start building up trade route income.

 

[futurehermit]

With seafood:

SNIP.

I totally hear what you are saying Mad, and I agree with you for the most part. It's just that when I play I am looking to REX asap usually and building workboats and so forth slows this down, I find. Of course, the tradeoff, which is helping me accept coastal starts is the GLH, which really helps fund the expansion. However, I get excited about a bureaucracy capital to start with where I can expand and then hit monarchy->CS early. Yes, you can move your capital, but the cottages in your new capital won't be NEARLY as developed as if you had been developing them from very early on.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

If I start with fishing I'm only building a workboat if going worker-first would create him before he has the technology to stay busy working. If I do build that workboat it gets built on the highest-hammer yielding tile in my city, hopefully the three hammer forested hill.

The fish resource is as good (foodwise) as non-irrigated corn however is better overall b/c of 2-3 . The only reason I would build anything before a workboat with fish in BFC and Fishing starting tech is if I also start with Mining and have gems/silver/gold in BFC. OR if I have irrigated corn and can tech Agriculture and build my worker within a few turns of each other.

EDIT: With regards to Mad Scientist's post, I've never lost a coastal start with multiple seafood resources. Never. Not even on Prince (the level I'm trying to break into). Of the 2 games I won on prince, 1 was a coastal start (the other was an Egypt/Tons of Food/Stone/horse start). So I know exactly what ur saying.