Colossus & lighthouse

Mindfields · Mar 27, 2001

Colosses & lighthouse are wonders that most of you think are not important. That's why i post here. I think they ARE important.

Lighthouse: Lighthouse is such i nice wonder, it's one of my favorites. It makes ever ship you make (mostly triremes) veteran. And It allows trireme ships to sail in open waters. This are the two most important advandtages you get with this wonder.

In a lot of maps you have big tactical advandtage if you can attack over sea while you apponent can't, because he can't leave the coast. Supprise attacks can be very effective, it could win you the game. And because your ships are veteran, your ships are well protected against attacks. Normally it takes 2 or 3 non-veteran triremes to take out 1 veteran trireme.

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collossus is a wonder that gives you extra trade in a city. In combination with library & marketplace (later on bank & university)it can be very usefull to speed up getting new discoveries.
One city that only produces trade can be very effective. (lots of trade routes, etc)
Colosses doesn't expire until the discovery of flight or something. That means you have this advandtage the entire game (most of the games). This for a price of 4 caravans is not much.

Conditional Zenith · Mar 27, 2001

I agree that the Colossus is a good wonder, but I don't think the Lighthouse is very useful. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/spanking.gif" border=0> Unless you start on a tiny island, you can usually find antoher island or 2 without leaving your coast. The rest can wait till Navigation (if you have the Great Library, you won't forfeit much to get navigation). Scince when have trireme battles been important. Triremes usually die when attacking cities so this is not very useful. <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/flamethrower.gif" border=0>
And the Lighthouse expires too quickly.

[This message has been edited by Conditional Zenith (edited March 27, 2001).]

stormerne · Mar 27, 2001

I have to agree somewhat with Mindfields. Lighthouse especially is underrated, though I think most people know the value of Colossus for a science city.

But Lighthouse doesn't suit everybody or every playing scenario. If you're a perfectionist and/or you're playing on a large landmass, you'd be better advised to put your shields into something else.

If, on the other hand, you're an agressive expansionist or on a small island, Lighthouse is ideal. It's very cheap and you can have mapped the whole world with triremes before it expires, and long before anyone has emerged.

The only I would say is that I wouldn't place Lighthouse and Colossus as "must haves in preference to others". They are wonders that should be build as well as all the others! If you're aggressive expansionist, that will happen anyway.

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<IMG SRC="http://www.anglo-saxon.demon.co.uk/stormerne/stormerne.gif" border=0>

[This message has been edited by stormerne (edited March 27, 2001).]

drake · Mar 27, 2001

Lighthouse is a must if you want to go out and grab all the best strategic positions early on. If you get the lighthouse and start taking advantage of it right away, you can often nail down some of the best strategic locations on the globe before any other civ can even put a boat in the water.

It's a very helpful wonder on a large map. Small map, not so much.

Andu Indorin · Mar 27, 2001

In my system of rating the wonders, the Colossus scores a 10 out of possible 10 (along with Richard's Crusade, Mike's Chapel, and Hoover Dam); the Lighthouse ranks as a 2 out of 10.

I just don't use that many triremes and caravals to justify the cost of building the Lighthouse; and at deity level, where you have to be selective about which wonders to shoot for, the Hanging Gardens has become my number 2 choice after the Colussus in terms of the Wonders of the Ancient World; I rank the Gardens 6 on a scale of 10.

[This message has been edited by Andu Indorin (edited March 27, 2001).]

stormerne · Mar 27, 2001

Absolutely agree with you Drake!

A good example that fits in with your points is GOTM#2 - big map, lots to explore. Get the Lighthouse, send out the triremes, map the entire world, colonise the best vacant landmasses. That's how I was quickly able to build twice as many cities as all the other civs put together!

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<IMG SRC="http://www.anglo-saxon.demon.co.uk/stormerne/stormerne.gif" border=0>

Kev · Mar 27, 2001

As a huge proponent of the "Science City", I consider the Colussus a major priority in my games. I think you'll find that most people here on this forum do indeed consider this Wonder to be high on their list as well.

With Deity Level, there will always be Wonders that you will have to sacrifice to get others - especially if you play with several rivals. This is why I usually pass up the Lighthouse for others such as the Great Wall, Hanging Gardens, etc.

However, in my Deity game that made it to the HOF, I was stupid and lost the Hanging Gardens and gave myslef the Lighthouse (I forgot to switch production - DOH!). Sucked because I was on a pretty big continent at the time. I decided to take advantage of it while I had it, and it was great for several reasons.
- I was able to claim some nearby islands which helped when I ran into rivals on my home continent.
- Early exploration let me know a lot more about the world earlier - without having to tade maps or anything.
- This early exploration let me set up embassies and WONDERFUL early trade routes.
- With a few horsemen I was able to trigger many, many early huts and reap the benefits. Though I lost some units to barbs, the barbs stayed on their island where I released them and were unable to threaten any of my cities.

While the Lighthouse is still usually something that I will still give up to get something else (it actually does NOT hurt you if the AI gets it - their ship never sink anyway), it really does have some great benefits as well.

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Diplomacy - the art of
saying "Good Doggie"
until you can find a rock

Smash · Mar 27, 2001

All wonders can be good cept Eiffel.
Lighthouse is very good with The Gardens on watery worlds.
Another nice combo is War Academy and Lighthouse.Thats big trouble in duels or fast conquest type games.

You can't get super ironclads without The Lighthouse.A wolf pack of these will smash any coastal city up to and including Conscription

Andu Indorin · Mar 27, 2001

Agreed Smash,

I rank the Eiffel Tower down there with the Manhatten Project and the Oracle. (Never build temples, never build the Oracle).

HIEROPHANT · Mar 27, 2001

the importance of the lighthouse it much more in a human player game.

Tact · Mar 28, 2001

Lighthouse I have, am about to get attacked by foriegn ships, I'll let you know how things turns out

vladmir_illych_lenin · Mar 28, 2001

The lighthouse can be useful in multiplayer. AI triremes never sink anyways. I usually build other wonders so they will waste their shields on the lighthouse.

One question:

Why the hell do people like King Richards Crusade? All it does is add some shields, and I discover industrialization a couple of turns later! I'd rate it 5/10. Mike's chapel is a definite 10/10. So is SETI program.

MrSparkle · Mar 28, 2001

by the time i want to explore the seas i have navigation so the Lighthouse isn't really needed. I always get the colossus however cos o love making a super science city

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I am disrespectful to Dirt! Can you not see that I am serious?

SlowwHand · Mar 29, 2001

I have a Tribe mate that showed me the worth of Lighthouse.
No doubt here; a very good Wonder.

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It's In The Way That You Use It

stormerne · Mar 29, 2001

Originally posted by vladmir_illych_lenin:
Why the hell do people like King Richards Crusade?

I LOVE it for one reason only: it's a great distraction. For some reason the AI will always try to build it. Let 'em! I never do. Meanwhile I'm using my shields more profitably elsewhere.

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<IMG SRC="http://www.anglo-saxon.demon.co.uk/stormerne/stormerne.gif" border=0>

Leowind · Mar 29, 2001

Lighthouse makes ships veteran? I didn't know this. I hate losing my Caravel loaded up with settlers/units about to land on a foreign shore cause some barbie or rival Civ decides to attack it with a Trireme for no good reason. I would love a way to make early ships vets!

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Leowind, former Founder of the Zulu Alliance.
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Join us at Zulus Unite! thread and make the (Civ) world a better place!

MrSparkle · Mar 29, 2001

Is the advantage of having a city wall in every city from the Great Wall worth it since its gets cancelled oout fairly quickly?

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I am disrespectful to Dirt! Can you not see that I am serious?

Smash · Mar 30, 2001

It also gives 1 more move to post trireme ships.

lildude · Mar 30, 2001

I think that if you are a conquer the world guy like me, then the best wonder is the Eiffel Tower.

Now, you may ask about this since it helps forget what you did and a militalistic guy like me wouldn't car.

WRONG!
I like it since you can make peace with people, milk em for all they got, and KILL them! Hee hee hee!

Cimfindriel · Mar 30, 2001

Originally posted by MrSparkle:
Is the advantage of having a city wall in every city from the Great Wall worth it since its gets cancelled oout fairly quickly?

If playing against the AI the Great Wall is something to value due to the fact that it forces negotiation's in your favor and keeps the AI off of your back in the early game. How much should you value it? Not as much, IMO, as the Pyrmids, or the Gardens which serve my stratagem a great deal more.

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<IMG SRC="http://www.gifmix.com/giffar/fantasy/fantasy_gifmix1-235.gif" border=0>Cimfindriel

Colossus & lighthouse

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