Comic Books: High or Low art?

[thestonesfan]

So here I was yesterday, donating blood, and I was reading Alan Moore's "Watchmen". If you aren't familiar with it, you should be, as it's a true literary masterpiece, and the esteemed Polymath will no doubt attest to that. Anyway, one of the workers saw it and asked "What comic book is that?" I told him, and he proceeded to tell me about his childhood comics that he has since thrown away. Not condescendingly or anything, but I could tell he linked comics to being a kid.

Which is no doubt appropriate, if you're living in 1964. It amused me that if this guy actually decided to read "Watchmen", it would probably be over his head, and here he was concluding that comics are juvenile. Not that they aren't okay for kids, in fact, I think they need to get in touch with the younger audience again. But any adult with an imagination should appreciate them as an artform, and frankly, comics just get no love.

So how do you think of comics? Do you read them? Did you? Do you hold them at the same level as "real" books? Personally, I feel a good comic story is more impressive than a good novel, because it must succeed on two levels, story and art.

 

[CurtSibling]

Cartooning and comics are the only real form of modern art.

I don't read them, but I create them, and thus, I am compelled to defend the art-form.

 

[Mojotronica]

"Watchmen" is one of a handful of comics that have approached realization of the potential of the medium.

It COULD be high art, but very few have attempted that.

 

[Cimbri]

I like comics. But lately I have only been reading special geeky stuff and not so much ‘mainstream’ (Marvel, Darkhorse). Sin City, The Crow, The Maxx and stuff.

Had quite an extensive X-men collection once, but its gone now… but that’s all coming back after watching X2.

Cimbri

 

[CurtSibling]

For real studies of art in the genre;

Pick up some works by Cho, Bellamy, Corben or Eisner.

Now those are art.

 

[Phantom Lord]

Calvin & Hobbes is high art.

 

[Cimbri]

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
Calvin & Hobbes is high art.

Yeah C&H is the best…

… Just realized how neerdy that sounded…

ENEMY ACE: Bellamy? What did he do?
Edit: Is it Bruno Bellamy?

 

[thestonesfan]

Curt - I can't discount the motion picture as non-art, but I will agree that is probably the most expressive form of art in this day and age. The only limit to the worlds that can be created is the imagination. Pour all the money of Hollywood into the comic industry and nothing is improved except paper or ink quality. That in itself is worthy of respect.

Mojo - I have to disagree with that. While "Watchmen" is often cited as the pinnacle of the medium, and certainly has a stake in that claim, it is far from the only one. Nearly every major comic series published has had moments of brilliance, from Superman calling on a deranged Billy Batson to make the ultimate decision in "Kingdom Come", to the incredible Hulk looking on helpless as his friend dies of AIDS. Jean Grey's inevitable sacrifice as she defeats the Dark Phoenix the only way she, or anyone, can.

No, more than a few have attempted to make comics all they can be, and more than a few have succeeded. They just don't get the press.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by Cimbri

Yeah C&H is the best…

… Just realized how neerdy that sounded…

ENEMY ACE: Bellamy? What did he do?
Edit: Is it Bruno Bellamy?

Frank bellamy, one of the greats of cartooning...Responsible for the action sci-fi hero 'Garth'..

 

[napoleon526]

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
Calvin & Hobbes is high art.

Indeed:

 

[thestonesfan]

Normally, I'd love to jump in a C&H discussion, but comic strips are a different matter entirely. Whole different set of rules.

Although I should point out that Calvin's discussion with Hobbes of "high" and "low" art inspired this thread.

His snowmen are always hilarious.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by thestonesfan
Curt - I can't discount the motion picture as non-art, but I will agree that is probably the most expressive form of art in this day and age. The only limit to the worlds that can be created is the imagination. Pour all the money of Hollywood into the comic industry and nothing is improved except paper or ink quality. That in itself is worthy of respect.

There are dozens, if not scores of hugely talented individuals that could use that money to create new genres within the comics scene.

Comics do not only revolve around the dried-up and tacky super-hero genre.

There is much scope for investment...
How many new Eisners, Bluths or Kirbys are working in a 7-11 or call-centres, waiting for a big break.

All that money could be used to find new talent...It is out there to be discovered.

In fact - look at Fred and others on our very own art-work thread...Sheer talent.

 

[Cimbri]

Jeez, just found some stuff by Frank bellamy. Very nice.
Your drawings are pretty amazing as well Sir CurtSibling

 

[polymath]

Thestonesfan,
Absolutely, The Watchmen is great.

'Give Me Liberty' is another brilliant one, words by Frank Miller (Dark Night Returns), art by Dave Gibbons (Watchmen):
http://www.comics247.co.uk/en-gb/dept_237.html
(not affiliated in any way, of course, but well worth a punt.)
If you like the Watchmen, you'll love that one too.

 

[Thadlerian]

Comics can be art. That doesn't automatically make any comic strip art though. I've just started reading Sandman, they are great. Calvin & Hobbes too, btw.

 

[napoleon526]

Originally posted by thestonesfan
Although I should point out that Calvin's discussion with Hobbes of "high" and "low" art inspired this thread.

I remember this one!

Painting = high art
Comic strip = low art
Painting of a comic strip = high art
Comic of a painting of a comic strip = low art

 

[Perfection]

WOO HAGAR THE HORRIBLE!

Now that's high art!

 

[Panda]

There are some artists who do graphic novels that are indeed high art.

Most prominent, IMO, would be Frenchman Enki Bilal, who received a few years back the book price of the year in France. In addition to writing enthralling stories he also paints the most beautiful cartoon women ever.

I had the pleasure of meeting Brian Talbot a few years ago, and I consider his work - Luther Arkwright among others - high art, as well as Frank Miller's.

Garth Ennis is fabulous, but maybe more pure netertainment than art.

 

[MummyMan]

I usually don't. I like to read beetle bailey once in a while. That would suck for a lazy guy like beetle to be in the army.

 

[CivCube]

It depends on how one uses the medium. The novel when it first started out was considered to be a low art.

Read Understanding Comics and Reinventing Comics by Scott McCloud. The first deals with comics as art; the second addresses the industry and the problems which prevent comics from developing. Very good books, and comics too!