'commies'

[Cecasander]

Why do a lot of Americans hate communism so much?
I don't really get it. And don't come with things like 'the treat their people bad' and 'they have punnishment camp' and other Stalin-age stuff, becourse the US opposed the USSR during Lelins age too. Is it becourse Americans don't like 'power to the common people' and 'equilty' (and other Marx-terms), or does the Communist ieda just doesn't fir in the American Way of Life, with 'self-made men' and 'total freedom'?

 

[Perfection]

Yes, it disagrees with capitalism, one of Americas most prized ideals

 

[Narz]

I don't hate communism. I just think it's not a good system for humans.

 

[Perfection]

Communism doesn't work because it cannot help greedy people

 

[PantheraTigris2]

Our disdain for communism primarily derives from that Cold War thingy we had a while back. Being a 'communist' - was taboo. If you, the good, loyal American citizen - should find that one of your neighbors was a 'commie', well then it was your duty to call the police, the Secret Service, the CIA, the FBI, the NSA, and the National Guard, to come and take that treacherous commie bastard away! During the Cold War, being a communist was just about the worst thing a person could be. It was the highest kind of treason imaginable. If someone was found out to be a commie, then they weren't even considered human, they were so low. Hence the phrase, "communist dog!"

The USSR was our archenemy for several decades. During that time, the entire concept and image of communism was forever tainted in the West.


edit: spelling

 

[History_Buff]

Panthera said it most. Most politically intelligent people hate it because it will never work.

Americans hate it because they were told to, like Panthera said.

 

[Adebisi]

I have many probems with communism. It's not just that it "wouldn't work" - it gives the individual very little freedom.

I also strongly dislike the many communist/extreme left organisations and parties in Europe. They have a hate of America that never ends, and seems to be mostly based on their own fantasies. They are also very anti-semitic. Many resort to historical revisionism, like the neo-nazis do, when it comes to the Soviet Union. The differences between neo-nazis and communists are very small in Europe.

On the whole I strongly dislike communism and all it stands for.

 

[Thadlerian]

Originally posted by Adebisi
On the whole I strongly dislike communism and all it stands for.

Your opinion. I like the idea of Communism.
The extreme left parties might get quite over-enthusiastic and fanatic without necessarily stopping to think, and their use of anti-americanism is silly and prejudicial.
But using the term 'anti-semite' because they choose to sympatize with the Palestines, is wrong. From the left-wing point of view, the Palestines are the losing part of the Israel conflict, and being left-wing is pretty much protecting those who are weak. I know they can get quite biased, but it should be possible to separate it from anti-semitism...

The problem with the Western defintion of 'freedom', is that it only goes for those who have money.

 

[Pillager]

Indeed, Adebisi. It's a system that bears no relation to reality and supposedly communist countries have been the most oppressive regimes ever known. Communist countries have been and are a threat to the liberal democracies of the West, and it is diametrically opposed to what we hold dear- individual freedom, economic freedom, etc.

Oh yeah, and it's evil.

 

[Cecasander]

'lefties' hate facists, so your communist-neonazi idea isn't true

 

[Turner]

Originally posted by Thadlerian

Your opinion. I like the idea of Communism.

I like the idea of communism too. But it just doesn't work. Human greed keeps it from working.

Originally posted by Thadlerian

The problem with the Western defintion of 'freedom', is that it only goes for those who have money.

Ever been homeless? Doesn't get much free-er than that. Not fun. Been there, done that. Don't want to do it again.

I really have to disagree with this statement. Aside from my barb, there is a lot of freedom in this country that has absolutly nothing to do with those that have money. Sure, money has a lot to do with keeping those freedoms, but if I don't want to pay my rent or my car payment, that's entirely up to me. No one says that I have to do that. Of course, I won't be able to keep my house or my car, but then that's my problem, isn't it?


While reading this thread, I had an interesting thought. . . what if the founders of this country had more of a communist type of government in mind than a capitolist one? What if we were to take the capitolism of the US out and insert Communism, while keeping the constitution and bill of rights. . .Could this be the utopia that Plato dreamt of? Doubtful, but interesting brain candy. . .

 

[insurgent]

Originally posted by Cecasander
Why do a lot of Americans hate communism so much?
I don't really get it. And don't come with things like 'the treat their people bad' and 'they have punnishment camp' and other Stalin-age stuff, becourse the US opposed the USSR during Lelins age too. Is it becourse Americans don't like 'power to the common people' and 'equilty' (and other Marx-terms), or does the Communist ieda just doesn't fir in the American Way of Life, with 'self-made men' and 'total freedom'?

Not just Americans hate communism. Everybody who knows about the crimes and atrocities committed by communist regimes all over the world does that.
Saying that Lenin didn't commit atrocities is outright wrong. He and his copains developed the theories of the "permanent revolution", collectivised by force killing thousands with hunger and violence, created the Cheka, theorised over the use of violence as an active means of repressing the people, and many many more things. People tend to ignore Lenin's obvious and admitted cruelty, seeing the contrast between him and Stalin.

Communism is a terrible form of government which is closer to fascism than it is to any democratic form of government. It is based on a one-party autocracy, and fundamentally takes any rights or freedoms away from its people. It is based on violence and fear, and relies on brute force to keep power. It's outright evil.

As a right-liberal, I am outraged that you even express wonder as to why Americans hate communism. I suggest you study some sources before you go dancing with your ignorance on the graves of 65 million victims of communism. I love the ideals of personal freedom, economic freedom, individual diversity, human rights etc.
I thought you were cleverer than that...

 

[Adebisi]

Originally posted by Cecasander
'lefties' hate facists, so your communist-neonazi idea isn't true

Both hate the Jews, both hate America, both hate capitalism, both hate democrary, both of them resort to violence. Both of them are small, isolated sects that brainwash their members.

Communists and neo-nazis - they are the same.

 

[Cecasander]

Originally posted by insurgent
Communism is a terrible form of government which is closer to fascism than it is to any democratic form of government. It is based on a one-party autocracy, and fundamentally takes any rights or freedoms away from its people. It is based on violence and fear, and relies on brute force to keep power. It's outright evil.

As a right-liberal, I am outraged that you even express wonder as to why Americans hate communism. I suggest you study some sources before you go dancing with your ignorance on the graves of 65 million victims of communism. I love the ideals of personal freedom, economic freedom, individual diversity, human rights etc.
I thought you were cleverer than that...

First of all I don't care about right-liberal-conservatives, so I don't really care if you find me clever or not. The bad things about communism are introduced by people who were imperialistic and greedy. I'm sure Karl Marx didn't ment it that way. It's just the (wrong) way the communistic ideas are interpreted.

It's just not (yet) in the human's nature to introduce communism as they prefer to stick to (oldfasinoed) imperialistic and power-hungry ideas....

 

[Adebisi]

Originally posted by Thadlerian
But using the term 'anti-semite' because they choose to sympatize with the Palestines, is wrong. From the left-wing point of view, the Palestines are the losing part of the Israel conflict, and being left-wing is pretty much protecting those who are weak. I know they can get quite biased, but it should be possible to separate it from anti-semitism...

I went into a Swedish (it's not Norway, but close ) forum for socialists and picked some quotes. (Translated by me)

"I support every suicide bombing against Israel. The Palestinians are forced to desperate measures."

"The Israelis should be sent back to Aushwitz. They obviously haven't learned anything!"

"Burn Israel Burn!"

"Is it only me who thinks that all zionists should be exterminated? Wouldn't that be the best solution?"

"I fully support bombings of Israeli civilians and Swedish tourists in Israel who celebrate Pesach. May they be blown into a thousand pieces!"

"You zionists should shut up. What are you doing here? This forum isn't kosher!"

"I don't deny the holocaust, but it's a lie to say that 6 million Jews were killed. Only a few hundred thousand were killed. The Jews made up the rest! There wasn't even a million Jews in Germany."

"Dictatorship and Islamism is better than democracy and Zionism"

"I support the suicide bombings in Israel, because as long as you are living in Israel and not stopping what's happening in Palestine you are guilty too."

"If all of us who hate Israel (and we are many!) unite in a massive attack, we should win."

"If you call yourself Israeli you dont deserve to live."

"I give the Palestinians my full support for every Israeli they kill. Better that all Israelis die than that one innocent Palestinian gets killed."

"I feel like going there with a baseball bat tomorrow!"
(Referring to a meeting for holocaust survivors)

So you can judge for yourselves.

 

[FredLC]

I don't hate or love communism. I don't hate or love capitalism. It's silly to have feelings for systems, because systems are but human constructs that can be changed to fit the ideals of those who implement them.

Like any other tool, a system can be used to the good and to the evil.

So, I just want to state that those who say that "communism created the worst dictatorships known to man" are a little missguided.

The Fascism, for example, is virtually unbeatable as the worst scorch humanity had to face in the 20th century. And it was not communism at all.

Also, there were many horrible dictatorships in captalism. It's the case of virtually the entire South America during the 60's, 70's and 80's - dictatorships that were even encouraged by USA agencies as tools to avoid the spreading of the "terrible communism" to our borders (what they sucessfully accomplished) at the price of being as terrible and as murderous as it could possibly be.

Historically, we could go farther. The colonialism, meaning, the slavery of countries by other countries, common policy during the days of mercantilism - one of the earlier forms of captalism - lasted far longer and was as brutal and vicious as any communist policy you care to name.

But let's not limit ourselves to capitalism, or it may sound like I'm attacking it, what is not the case at all. We can look at feudalism, with it's notions of elitism and servitude, and we will see the way it worked is also a monstrosity to the eyes of modern man.

Or we can go back to the Roman empire, that was neither capitalistic or communist, and that lasted for centuries based on the exploitation of slave labour.

My point is: communism has given us a bad experience? Yes. No honest person can say that it was a good thing.

But to paint it as a horrible children-eating monstrosity, inherently murderous and dictatorial, well, it's simply silly.

I don't want communism (or better, socialism) back, certainly not as it used to be, and likely not while it's notions aren't revised to achieve better functionality. If it's not possible, than I don't want to see it ever back.

But let's not hate it in principle; there's no reason for doing so. After all, as I previously said, the communism tool can be adapted and used for good in the future.

Regards .

 

[Pillager]

Originally posted by FredLC
The colonialism, meaning, the slavery of countries by other countries, common policy during the days of mercantilism - one of the earlier forms of captalism - lasted far longer and was as brutal and vicious as any communist policy you care to name.

Nonsense. I don't recall us limiting all families to one children and killing the other unfortunate infants, or wiping out a few million because of one man's paranoia. And we'll glide over the introduction of pretty fair law and order, economic structure, reduction in corruption, and the abolition of slavery.

The two nastiest policies in the last few centuries have been those of Stalin and Hitler, and in neither case does colonialism come close. Excepting Algeria the Congo, perhaps.

 

[FredLC]

Originally posted by Pillager


Nonsense. I don't recall us limiting all families to one children and killing the other unfortunate infants, or wiping out a few million because of one man's paranoia. And we'll glide over the introduction of pretty fair law and order, economic structure, reduction in corruption, and the abolition of slavery.

The two nastiest policies in the last few centuries have been those of Stalin and Hitler, and in neither case does colonialism come close. Excepting Algeria the Congo, perhaps.

You are talking about the english colonisalism, right?

One of the less agressives, despite not even close to being a good thing.

But don't you kid yourself by thinking of how the metropolis dealt with the people they sent and that settled there.

Colonialism virtually wiped out the native populations of the countries in the "new world". It also relied heavely in slavery, both from blacks and indians, when we think of the portuguese and spanish models.

Here in Brazil, for example, the colonial policy didn't allow us to have schools or factories or banks. We were kept as a big farm during 300 years.

Dissident opinions were dealt pretty much in the way Saddan or Stalin did. They were wiped out. The most famous example in our borders is the "Inconfidência Mineira" movement, that was destroyed, and had it's leader hang, cut in pieces, and had his parts exposed in the streets of Belo Horizonte as a lesson for others not to try that again.

So don't kid yourself. Colonislism was slavery, and it relied on violence, misery and murder. You like it or not.

Regards .

 

[DancesWithGoats]

Originally posted by Adebisi


Both hate the Jews, both hate America, both hate capitalism, both hate democrary, both of them resort to violence. Both of them are small, isolated sects that brainwash their members.

Communists and neo-nazis - they are the same.

Indeed. That is why in Belgium, the communist party has teamed up with the Arab European League, who are basically a bunch of extreme-right Arab nationalists and muslim fundamentalists.

 

[cgannon64]

It was our sworn enemy for decades, and a whole lot of propaganda in the US made the word "communist" enough to ruin an artist/politician's career. Plus its idea of communal ownership is the opposite of a capitalist economy...