[BNW] Community Deity Game #27 - Poland

[beetle]

Turn 152 they came swarming with...

I think you have to take out the neighbor’s cap w/ CBs or XBs. Once he gets his UU, he will come calling for sure. In your T138 screen shot, how many turns before you
have Machinery? I think you want to go back to T130 or so, and with the cities you have building Workshop at T138, have them each build a CB first. Even the mere three CBs and two Pikes you are showing could be enough to start off a defensive war, and the neighbors Settler is exposed, so that is a good place to start.

The AI is very predictable. You fortify your two Pikes in front of Pozan, DOW him before he is ready, and his units will come to you.

P.S., I think you were smart to do five cities. All game long, I regretted not settling NE of Warsaw. I was sure an AI would be give me a city to capture, which they kind of did, but only ever at the end of the Peninsula, so kept razing the same spot.

 

[penguin74]

Called it quits around turn 160. Settled in place, 4 city tradition. Doing pretty well I thought. Was attacked by America and was holding them off just fine. Unfortunately, I did not plan for

Spoiler :

Russia. I usually don't worry about AI naval attacks, so hadn't built much of a navy, so when Russian frigates showed up to take my city on the peninsula to the east I had no answer. They started coming around toward the capital, so i gave up. Could probably have held the capital, but the lost city was in an impossible spot to retake without ships, so wasn't worth the setback.

Will try again

 

[beetle]

...frigates showed up to take my city on the peninsula to the east I had no answer.

Please post a screen shot. I am not visualizing where you might have put that lost city. I am trying again, getting a religion this time, and opening Liberty. War against the neighbor has not gone as well as before.

 

[penguin74]

Please post a screen shot. I am not visualizing where you might have put that lost city. I am trying again, getting a religion this time, and opening Liberty. War against the neighbor has not gone as well as before.

don't still have the save to screen shot, but its

Spoiler :

about 6 spaces east of the capital. the hill 1 tile SW of the wine.

 

[Grendeldef]

I'm going slower than the Total Domination games as it's T250 and siege is only on the 2nd capital with - yes, XBs - weird, wonderful and extremely long game. Mainly struggling with money issues atm but thoroughly enjoying myself for a change.
Sci VC would've been much easier and faster but making war is just so much more fun. More details when I get home eventually.

 

[beetle]

…its about 6 spaces east of the capital. the hill 1 tile SW of the wine.

Yeah, that spot is too exposed. There is nice tile 3 hexes NW of that. It puts the Wine in the third ring instead of first, but it much stronger.

 

[raider980]

T142 Loss. The most embarrassing loss ever in Civilization history.

Spoiler :

I lost my city to a City State! Not like I was doing well anyway but man. So I just resigned.

I had planned on taking Washington out with CB. I took Philly easily but could not get Washington. They had a lot of units and it was a strength 29 city. So I went for Boston to the west. I got it but then they took it right back.

I then retreated to my city by the wonder and upgraded to XB. Washington attacked me and even though I fought him off I lost a few units. So all my units were way down south fighting America. And Quebec City attacks. They actually crossed the narrow sea and landed a good force. They had Pikemen, a Knight, a Treb, two Triemes and two Galleas. I couldn't believe it, CS rarely attack actual Civs and I've never seen one cross water to do it.

I had a lot of CB and XB this time but I just didn't get them fast enough. I guess I'll try again though not sure if I am going to wait until Artillery or not. Seems like such a waste to wait that long when America is right there and I would have a ton of land once he's gone.

 

[t10000]

Fun but challenging map.

Spoiler :

My idea was to try to get science going fairly quickly and do most work with ranged ships. Went 3 city tradition, probably should have gone for more cities as Washington just keep settling all the land. However I was already struggling with happines and not really any city location with any good luxuries to be found. If you settled more cities, how do you deal with happiness? Buy luxes? Refrain from growing cities to large?

Got my cities growing fairly quickly and thus managed to catch up and get ahead fairly early in science. However production is really abysmal fort he starting location as well, so in my game I had to resort to production trade routes after a while. Something I never done before as food trade routes are so good.

Had problem getting enough workers as well, Washington gave me 1, through an early war apart from that friendly early game, stole 1 more from cs and one from barbs. So had to do with 3. Which was ok, but could have done with 1 or 2 more.

Think it was turn 136 when up until then friendly Washington chose to DOW me, Which was sort of anticipated and had several galleas about to be ready in production, although when he declared I had only like 2, with very few land units. I don't think he anticipated his invasion obliterated. Having a coast line filled with range ships will do short work of slow units.

As a safety precaution and keeping my trade routes I had to give Quebec a trade route as well as throw some gold at them.

At the moment I am spamming galleas, to sort of make up with the poor production and actively delaying navigation. As the upgrade cost is less than the production for the more advanced. I am not sure if I will go industrialisation before though, as I sort of need frigates to get his cities and the unit maintenance is starting to creep up. Something I will need to decide for my next session. Not really sure if correct to rush buy public school in Cap or just use the money for upgrading more ships to frigates.

Some milestones:
Turn 70 Philosophy
Turn 82 NC
Turn 103 Education
Turn 148 Industrial Era (Scientific theory)

Social policy
Tradition
Honor Opener
Exploration 2 policies
Rationalitism 3 policies
Not sure where to go from now. Honor would be strictly for more exp and might be best as I suspect I will need logistics frigates/battleships.

Here are some screenshoots from the game so far: https://imgur.com/a/1lWlN

Just going to give a brief update on further progress, however rather short session and turns taking a bit longer due to fairly complex combat.

Spoiler :

Decide to go navigation first in attempt to try take advantage the power of frigates, Even though the closest coastal city Seattle where captured a couple of times back and forth before I managed to run America out of nearby minutemen and finally raze the city. Was actually down to 1 pop due to all captures. However during the last few captures I have already moved on over to Boston falling fairly quickly with a lot less surrounding units.

I should also note that in anticipation of Americas or Russias attack had signed an defensive pact with Germany which now actually started to make progress on the other flank taking 1 and finally 2 American cities.

But just as Boston was about to fall Germany decided that enough was enough and made peace, leaving it up to me alone to finish the capital capture.

After some debating with myself back and forth I decided that if any Domination plans where to come I would need his capital before any peace could be an option.

However as my ships were taking a detour around detour my Spy reported Washington completed Red fort and his Cap took a huge bump in defensive value. Requiring me to upgrade and bring around a few more frigates. Forcing me to also take New York to allow my ships to heal between bombardments.

Thankfully the AI is super bad at actually focus down units, especially ships. Allowing me to finally take his Capital despite an impressive 88 defensive strength and only losing a single heroic pikeman during the war. The last few turns my frigrates of the capture was only doing 10-12 and felt the number of ships able to fit in the bay barely outdamage the natural heal of the city.

Definitely an underappreciated property of logistics from my being able to move after attacking.

From here the easiest path to victory would be science since I am already first in tech, with like 3 GS saved, almost finished Oxford and now also a decent chunk of land. Cargo ships with production also fixes the production in starting cities.

For domination it would be a lot trickier and don't exactly sure where to go next. To actually succeed before cities becoming to huge most likely I will need to convince/bribe some AI:s to attack Germany as my fleet is already down in the south with the ability to catch some of his cities and also hopefully his Cap which have some good wonders. Great Lighthouse in particular.

Will see when I have the time to continue this map, but def. a fun challenge that I'll try to complete sooner or later. Also super cool to see other people attempts, so many different ways to approach the map.

Here a few more screenshot from the war: https://imgur.com/a/RIkpS

 

[raider980]

I went back and re-loaded...

Spoiler :

... from the turn before I started attacking Washington. And this time I was able to take it with my CB. I did one thing differently - moved a CB out of range. The last time he attacked me because there was a road for him to come out of the city. He had gotten one of my CB down to near death. So I retreated. This time he moved his guys east and into range of 4 of my CB so I took them out in two turns.

One other thing that went differently; America did something incredibly stupid. Washington was in the high yellow. He had a Pikeman in Washington that had just killed my Spearman. Another Pikeman appeared in the city, bought or built. I thought I was a goner because he could've taken out two of my CB with those two guys. What does he do? He moves both of them into the ocean! I was able to kill one and severely damage the other and still attack the city. That's where he lost.

Its now T153 and I'm way behind. Brazil and Catherine are encroaching on my territory. I shouldn't have made that DoF with Brazil, he took a prime city spot that I was going to settle next. I was going to go for Frigates and take out Germany and Austria next. But Brazil and Russia are the most dangerous I think. Not sure what to do.

 

[penguin74]

Turn 340 SV. Not a good time, and I made some mistakes again.

Learned alot from the first run and fail, so changed up a bit. Problem is, Poland has so many options I was never really focused on a win condition. Tried to play friendly and defensive all game. Had DOF with almost everyone, and research agreements up, when I stupidly tried to pass world ideology freedom. Everyone but Russia turned on me, and suddenly I was at war with 5 civs. All the research agreements went bye bye and I spent a good 60 turns fighting people off.

Ended up getting very nervous as

Spoiler :

Germany

actually launched 5 parts while I was still at 2, but I had enough gold to rush buy the other 4 once I got the right techs so just held on for dear life and pulled it out. Probably could have won much earlier if I didnt screw up the world council but who knows, maybe they turn on me anyway.

Fun map, Im gonna go back and try Polynesia, even though I hate them.

 

[beetle]

I went back and re-loaded...

Looking much better! Too bad about Brazil. Can you reload and settle near that spot yourself?

Ended up getting very nervous as ... actually launched 5 parts while I was still at 2, but I had enough gold to rush buy the other 4 once I got the right techs so just held on for dear life and pulled it out.

I kind of love nail-biters like that! Well, at least I love it when I end up winning!

 

[raider980]

Looking much better! Too bad about Brazil. Can you reload and settle near that spot yourself?

Spoiler All civs and map spoilers :

I could have but decided to just forge ahead. I would've had to go back too far and it's not that good of a spot; no luxury and my happiness is hurting.

I have 5 coastal cities and it appears there is another continent with the last two civs on it. So I think I've decided to go for Frigates and take Germany and Austria first. I'm already friends with Russia and Brazil and they don't like Germany and Austria. So Poland and Russia vs Germany and Austria. This time Poland shall come out the victor.

 

[beetle]

…it's not that good of a spot; no luxury and my happiness is hurting.

I must respectfully disagree, not about that exact spot, but one tile west, still on a coastal hill. A city there unlocks several trade routes (and, for a while, will provide your only sea trade routes to America and Germany). There is is not a new lux, but it gives you one more Cocoa, and helps lock up your monopoly. I am doing lux trades from Cocoa with every civ (except when at war, of course). That spot has two fish, two stone, and a sheep. It is very strong.

Attached is my T153 screen shot from my 3rd attempt playing the map. I think you are doing better than I am, as you have taken the neighbors cap, and I am still waiting.

 

[raider980]

@beetle Yeah, looking at your map it is a good spot. I did originally want to settle there. If it had a lux that I didn't already have I might go back. But I don't like replaying games or going back too far to replay; the most fun part of civ for me is exploring and settling cities so I find myself quitting a lot of games to start new ones for the beginning part. That's why I like these shared maps. It gives me incentive to keep playing.

Spoiler :

That green city in my territory is annoying though. Now I really want that city. And I see the same Brazilian settler in your game! Comon Pedro, why come halfway around the world with that thing.

@t10000 Wow, your science at T148 is so much higher than mine at T153. You: 336. Me: 70. That's crazy! Makes me wonder how I am ever going to catch up. The way Civ 5 nerfs building more cities is annoying. I'm guessing you're so far ahead just because of population? Plus, I don't have universities yet. I guess everything just snowballs when you stay with few cities and grow population.

 

[t10000]

@t10000 Wow, your science at T148 is so much higher than mine at T153. You: 336. Me: 70. That's crazy! Makes me wonder how I am ever going to catch up. The way Civ 5 nerfs building more cities is annoying. I'm guessing you're so far ahead just because of population? Plus, I don't have universities yet. I guess everything just snowballs when you stay with few cities and grow population.

You mean the increasing cost of natural wonders the more cities you have? Yes to some extent you are correct, National College is important and should be considered where and when you settle new cities, storing gold to rush buy a library for better NC timing is quite common in order to develop good science. That in combination with growing your cities, as it not only allow you to work more tiles but also generate a lot more science from your cities.
However other national wonder is usually not that important and usually not something you need to shape your strategy around.

Even though science cost goes up with more cities it is usually questionable to stay with only 3 cities even for tradition, but I couldn't get the happiness to support a 4th city and keep growing my cities. Deemed growing my cities as more important than the extra settler, not sure if correct though.

As you are not doing any X-bow rush I would say that you probably should try to get education and universities up earlier. Especially with all jungle around the capital, which makes them fairly good tiles to work.
Sort of the same principle when it comes to the industrial era, try to beeline for Scientific theory and early public schools as that will speed up your acquisition of other techs as well.

When did you build NC, or did you forego that wonder?

 

[raider980]

You mean the increasing cost of natural wonders the more cities you have?

National Wonders are a part of it but I was speaking more generally. Like the increase in cost of science, social policies, reduced happiness, makes neighbors mad, etc. I just like building cities, I can't resist a good spot when I see it. But that hurts early game so much which is why I was not sure if I'd be able to catch up to the AI.

When did you build NC, or did you forego that wonder?

I built NC but it was very late. Something like T117. So that hurt me too. But I was busy building CB's, hahaha.

 

[Grendeldef]

T306 Dom - most likely (and by far) the slowest dom win ever in a something that resembles a normal game ie. without any weird self set rules. Last two capitals taken on the same turn to avoid retaliation, one with 3 nukes & XComs and the other more conventionally by Battleships. Sci VC would've been much faster even if chosen very late but this was just so much more fun lack of money being the main obstacle throughout the game. Proper(ish) write-up with pics on Sunday.