Companies

[gilgames]

sounds really good, a little problem is the time range. till 1000 its mainly good for byzantz and to abbasids only. others come too late for them imo. but possibly all their holdings could be converted to Levants later?

 

[merijn_v1]

I really like it. It covers the gap between the start of the game and the appearance of the other companies really well.

 

[Swarbs]

I'm not against adding some corps connected to Islamic civs
But I would like to avoid corporations which are for one civ only
If there is no competition between civs, who will build up the best cities for the given corporation (which cities will attract them the most), then I see no point in adding them.

That's true, although the limited geographical competition between Islamic civs does limit the extent to which there can be competition to a degree.

If the Akinci, for example, cover all Anatolia and the Levant then there will still be only a brief period during which there is competition between Arabs and Ottomans for them. The only solution there might be to make the Islamic corps cover the entire map - anywhere there is Islam the corps can spread.

 

[Shadow Warlord]

Teutonic Order
(1) Civil Service
(2) Astronomy (stops spreading)
(3) Any city controlled by a Catholic civ Northeast of and including Genoa, and Italy;
(4) Salt, Clam, Horse, Iron; Barracks, Stable, Courthouse, Catholic Church, Catholic Monastery; Feudal Monarchy, Feudal Law, Bureaucracy, Religious Law, Theocracy;

Templar Order
(1) Classical Knowledge
(2) Divine Right (stops spreading)
(3) Any city controlled by a Catholic civ. If the city has Islam, spread is much more likely.
(4) Wine, Wheat, Horse, Iron; Stable, Manor House, Catholic Church, Catholic Monastery; Feudal Monarchy, Feudal Law, Religious Law, State Religion;

Hospitaller Order
(1) Chivalry
(2) Printing Press (stops spreading)
(3) Any Coastal city controlled by a Catholic civ southeast of and including Genoa. If the city has Islam, spread is much more likely.
(4) Iron, Timber, Incense; Walls, Lighthouse, Catholic Church, Catholic Monastery; State Religion, Theocracy, Merchant Republic;

The three Knightly Orders compete against each other, i.e. they are less likely/impossible to spread to the same cities.

Knightly Orders should provide significantly less Yield/Commerce than the Banks/Commercial Leagues, because they have the added benefit of enabling powerful Units.

So going off of this post, here are some region suggestions for company spread for the military orders:

Teutonic Order: Holy Land, Hungary & Transylvania (briefly there defending the border regions before they were kicked out), Venice (headquartered there briefly), Prussia, Pomerania, the Baltics. Their spread should stop/have them disappear sometime after the Protestant reformation (Albrecht of Prussia, their last grandmaster, converted Prussia to Protestantism and made them a vassal to Poland, although the Order itself continued on under the Livonia order until they were eventually usurped by Lithuania).

Templar Knights: Holy Land, several locations in Europe, based on these castle locations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Knights_Templar_sites

So outside of the Holy Land, primarily France and the UK, but also some areas bordering Islamic nations including Portugal, Iberia, Croatia, etc.

Templars should disappear completely in the early 1400s to coincide with their purge ordered by the Pope and the King of France at that time.

Knights Hospitaller: Holy Land, the majority of the Mediterranean Islands (Cyprus, Rhodes, Crete, Malta). Not sure where else they could spread if we want to encourage other civs to make use of them, also not sure when their spread should stop or a disappearance date. They remained on Malta until Napoleon invaded in 1798, and they still in some form exist today(they also briefly had colonies): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Hospitaller.

 

[Baron03]

List of the companies:
Knights Hospitaller
Knights Templar
Teutonic Knights
Hanseatic League
Medici Banks
Bank of St. George
Augsburg Families

Proposed new companies:
Karimi Family
Hashishiyya
Guild of St. Luke
Order of Santiage
Order of the Dragon

More detailed info:

Spoiler :

Knight Hospitaller
Date: 1099- (Chivalry-Printing Press)
Area: "Western" Europe (1300 AD map)
Religion: Catholicism
Resources: Iron, Timber, Incense
Bonus:
Other: Military buildings, Catholic buildings
Allows the player to build Hospitaller Knight, Infirmary

Knight Templar
Date: 1119-1312 (Classical Knowledge-Divine Right)
Area: "Western" Europe (1300 AD map)
Religion: Catholicism
Resources: Wine, Wheat, Horse, Iron
Bonus:
Other: Military buildings, Catholic buildings
Allows the player to build Templar Knights

Teutonic Knights
Date: 1190- (Civil Service-Astronomy)
Area: Baltics, Northern Italy
Religion: Catholicism
Resources: Clam, Salt, Horse, Iron
Bonus:
Other: Military buildings, Catholic buildings
Allows the player to build Teutonic Knights

Hanseatic League
Date: 1358-1669
Area: Coastal cities north of Paris
Religion: All
Resources: Salt, Fish, Fur, Timber
Bonus: Food, commerce
Other: Economic Buildings
Allows the player to build Kontor

Medici Banks
Date: 1397–1494
Area:
Religion:
Resources:
Bonus: Gold
Other:

Bank of St. George
Date: 1407-1800
Area:
Religion:
Resources:
Bonus: Gold
Other:

Augsburg Families
Date: 1536-1800
Area:
Religion:
Resources:
Bonus: Gold
Other:


New Corps

Karimi Family
Date:
Area: Egypt, "Arabian" core, later also Turkey
Religion: Islam
Resources: Gold, Wheat, Spices, Cotton
Bonus: Gold/commerce
Other:

Hashishiyya
Date: 1092-1265
Area:
Religion: Levant, Egypt, Syria
Resources: Incense, Copper and Stone
Bonus: Espionage
Other:

Guild of St. Luke
Date: 1382- around 1650
Area: Low Countries, Italy
Religion: All
Resources: Dye, Sheep, Timber
Bonus: Culture
Other:

Order of Santiago
Date: 12th century -
Area: Iberia
Religion: Catholicism
Resources:
Bonus:
Other:

Order of the Dragon
Date: 1408-
Area:
Religion:
Resources:
Bonus:
Other:

I think that the Silk Road would be a nice addition, and a replacement for the proposed Karimi Family. Plus, it could benefit the eastern Mediterranean region (and Black Sea) as a whole for more civilizations.

Judaism acts like a religion and a company in one, so I think it is fine as is!

But I am skeptical about the orders of Santiago and the Dragon. I like them but they are regional, one being in Christian Spain and the other in Hungary resisting the Ottomans. Moreover there are already the big three military orders: Hospitallers, Templars, and Teutons. I think they can account for the proposed two.

It would be nice for the Order of Santiago to somehow account for the Catalan Company and "Navarrese" Company, which were prominent mercenary companies in southern Greece during the 14th century. But there doesn't seem to be a common name except for "Iberian." Either way it's minor.

Sufism would be nice for Muslim civilizations.

The Religious Orders:
Franciscan, Benedictine and Dominican Order, Society of Jesus would be good for random events if implemented. But not companies themselves.

In general I would keep: Knights Hospitaller, Knights Templar, Teutonic Knights, Hanseatic League, Medici Banks, Bank of St. George, Augsburg Families, Hashishiyya
Guild of St. Luke.
Drop: order of Santiago, order of the dragon, and the Karimi family.
And add: Sufism, and the Silk Road. That's eleven companies.
If that's too much then drop the knights Templar.

Edit: Possible bonuses for newer companies:
Medici Banks - Small culture and small gold bonus because they were patrons and the bank itself didn't last very long
Augsburg Families - gold bonus
Order of the Dragon - unit? And small production bonus
Sufism - culture and small tech bonus
Order of Santiago - A small production and culture bonus
Teutonic Knights - a small production bonus above all else
The Silk Road - a moderate wealth bonus (replacing the karimi family) with a tiny culture and science bonus. Resources - incense, sheep, horse, and possibly olives.

 

[AbsintheRed]

We should probably revisit Companies too
They are getting very high on my todo list
In fact, some of the new mechanics are already implemented in my WIP version for a while

First of all, we should finalize the list.
Note that all new companies need art too!

 

[merijn_v1]

What is the current list?

 

[Baron03]

I think I should adjust which companies I support having. Eleven may be too many.

I think we should definitely include: Guild of St. Luke, Teutonic Knights, Knights Hospitaller, Bank of St. George, The Silk Road, Hanseatic League, Augsburg Families, and Medici Banks

They're the most important.

Ones I would consider: Knights Templar and Hashishiya.

Alternates that I wouldn't include: Order of the dragon, Knights Templar, Order of Santiago, and Sufism.

They're less important compared to the others. The Silk Road replaces the Karimi Family. Two military orders are plenty for the game.

 

[AbsintheRed]

What is the current list?

Apart from most of the original ones, I'm only certain in 3:
Guild of St. Luke:
Italy and cities close to the Low countries
Would be great to represent an art guild

Order of the Dragon:
Hungary, Balkans, probably parts of Austria, Bohemia, and Poland as well
An order against the Ottomans

Order of Santiago (or a different Iberian order, like Order of Calatrava):
Spain, Aragon, Portugal
Reconquista order

Of the original ones, Hanseatic League and all 3 Crusading Orders are certain.
Crusaders will compete against each other.
Also at least 2 of the Banking Guilds will also make it, maybe all 3.
These of course also compete with each other.

Not really sure on Islamic companies yet.
Sufi, Karimi Family, Hashashins/Fedayeen
Most of them are out of the scope of the mod IMO.

Some other suggestions that came up:
Akıncı, Radhanite, Peruzzi Company, House of Mendes/Benveniste (Marrano Jews)

Ohh and the Silk Road. It's already represented to some degree, with those resources on the border of the map in Eastern-Anatolia and NE Arabia.
Probably I will add it as a special company, while keeping this role (so this is an aesthetic change mostly): so it will do nothing directly to the city, but add some exotic resources for the civ. Also it may appear only in cities in the same area.

 

[Publicola]

The Religious Orders:
Franciscan, Benedictine and Dominican Order, Society of Jesus would be good for random events if implemented. But not companies themselves.

I hadn't even considered how to incorporate the Catholic religious orders into the mod. That's a particularly glaring omission considering how much of an impact those orders had on European history. (If nothing else, the Benedictines essentially *were* the major monastic centers of Europe, the Franciscans probably delayed the Protestant Reformation by several centuries by addressing corruption in the Church, the Dominicans basically 'owned' the University of Paris, and the Jesuits were a major player when Europe started to build colonies).

The problem with treating them as one-off events is that it disregards their ongoing and sustained impact on European communities. I think that if we are revamping the 'Companies' list and/or mechanism, we should give *serious* consideration to including at least one or two of the four, if not all of them.

 

[Baron03]

I hadn't even considered how to incorporate the Catholic religious orders into the mod. That's a particularly glaring omission considering how much of an impact those orders had on European history. (If nothing else, the Benedictines essentially *were* the major monastic centers of Europe, the Franciscans probably delayed the Protestant Reformation by several centuries by addressing corruption in the Church, the Dominicans basically 'owned' the University of Paris, and the Jesuits were a major player when Europe started to build colonies).

The problem with treating them as one-off events is that it disregards their ongoing and sustained impact on European communities. I think that if we are revamping the 'Companies' list and/or mechanism, we should give *serious* consideration to including at least one or two of the four, if not all of them.

I would like to, but I don't know how else to incorporate them into the mod other than a building (a Benedictine Monastery that requires a Catholic Church or something?). And random events can probably wait farther into the future. There's already plenty of companies to consider too.

Absinthe, is there going to be a cap on how many companies a city can have? My main concern is a lot of overlap and similar bonuses, but other than that I don't mind having a lot.

 

[AbsintheRed]

(new) Religious Orders:
Franciscan, Benedictine and Dominican Order (give science, relics), Society of Jesus (more science)

The religious orders (Franciscan, Benedictine and Dominican, etc) are more or less represented by religious buildings.
Also, not sure what unique bonuses could they potentially get.. I don't really see a point in adding them

This was my initial reaction for religious orders
I might reconsider it, but still not convinced at all
If they are included, they need state religion and a Catholic Monastery to be able to spread to the city (Protestant Seminary for the Society of Jesus)
Not sure what would possibly make them unique or fun enough

 

[AbsintheRed]

Absinthe, is there going to be a cap on how many companies a city can have? My main concern is a lot of overlap and similar bonuses, but other than that I don't mind having a lot.

No real cap, but many are exclusive to certain areas/religions, and similar ones will definitely compete with each other.

 

[merijn_v1]

I agree with the definitive ones on the current list.

I do think we should have at least 3 banking companies for competition. But I prefer if one of them would be replaced with another one from a different region, as the current ones are very close to each other. So the Banking companies aren't clustered on one part of the map. (But I don't know a good replacement)

I think it would be fair if Arabian civs have a company as well. I think Sufi would be the best for them, as they have quite a big portion of the map it can spread to. (Northern Africa, Levant, Turkey, Andalusia, even the Balkans.) Basically every Islamic civ we have.

The Karimi Families would also be nice, because the would be nice if there is competition between Islamic and Christian banking companies. But I'm afraid there won't be much competition because of area and religion restrictions.

I don't think the Silk Route should be a company. Only a the end of the actual Silk Route is on the map. I think it can be represented better that by a company that would only spread into max 3 cities.

I also don't think Catholic orders should be included. They are indeed best represented by just Churches.

About the suggested ones, I don't think they would be very fitting. Akinci would be Ottoman only and Peruzzi is too similar to Medici. I do like the Jewish companies, but the Judaism religion and Synagogue does more or less represent that already.

 

[SanJose]

Muscovy Company suggestion is unfortunately not suitable for a small period of existence and the lack of some resources in the game (hemp, flax)

 

[AbsintheRed]

About the suggested ones, I don't think they would be very fitting. Akinci would be Ottoman only and Peruzzi is too similar to Medici. I do like the Jewish companies, but the Judaism religion and Synagogue does more or less represent that already.

Yeah, I consider the Peruzzi more or less included in the Medici
Still unsure about the religious orders. If someone has some good ideas to make them special/fun enough, I will include those as well.
Islamic/Jewish corporations are also under consideration.

Muscovy Company suggestion is unfortunately not suitable for a small period of existence and the lack of some resources in the game (hemp, flax)

Yeah, it's not well-suited as a company in RFCE. Definitely a no.

 

[gilgames]

I read the story and I think it could be easily a lot more successful. So its a good idea to add this company fur Russia or a respawning Kiev and Novgorod. If England is not annoyed or worse and any civ that reached baltic coast or the northenmost river.

 

[gilgames]

Religious Orders: I definitely like them, if not as a company, then maybe we could improve the churches/monasteries. If you have one built then a popup could ask you to build it further or pay some gold or both and it will add further benefits like +1 culture +1 gold/commerce or +1 braker.
After you complete it: Dominican Catholic Church

 

[SanJose]

I read the story and I think it could be easily a lot more successful. So its a good idea to add this company fur Russia or a respawning Kiev and Novgorod. If England is not annoyed or worse and any civ that reached baltic coast or the northenmost river.

Yeah, that's only regional too. Definitely a no.

It looks better as a project, improving relations with Ivan the Terrible

 

[Swarbs]

Still unsure about the religious orders. If someone has some good ideas to make them special/fun enough, I will include those as well.

Unique bonuses to religious buildings, dependent on faith points? So if you have more than 60 faith points the Franciscans will spread and give you +1 for every monastery, Jesuits will give you +10% for every church etc.

Also if you have at least 50% religious order spread in your cities then you can build a UB for that order that amplifies the bonus further.