Complete Mac Mayania

[dojoboy]

Currently playing turns. War w/ Aztecs has commenced.

 

[dojoboy]

Pre-turn: Repositioned stack of knights one tile west, due south of Coyotepec.

600 AD (1) - Reach Astronomy, set to Navigation; Copan b. knight, set to knight; Tikal b. trebuchet, set to trebuchet; Yaxchilan b. knight, set to knight; Cattaraugus b. knight, set to knight; DGI b. courthouse, set to caravel (exploration, combat, transport); St. Regis b. worker, set to worker; Positioned forces for Aztec War.

610 AD (2) - Grand River b. courthouse, set to marketplace; Akwesasne b. worker, set to JT(defense sparse on peninsula w/ horsemen south); New CI b. walls, set to library; Trade Monotheism, 50 gpt, and gems to Aztecs for Invention; Declare war on Aztec, recouping 50 gpt & gems; Captured Jilotzingo, set to worker; upgrade galley to caravel;

620 AD (3) - Calakmul b. knight, set to knight; Tulum b. aqueduct, set to library; Rush Longbowman at Akwesasne; horseman destroys barb camp south of Akwesasne; JT enslaves Aztec Jaguar Warrior; Coyotepec captured w/ 4 Aztec settlers (8 workers);

630 AD (4) - CI b. marketplace, set to Copernicus' Observatory (29 turns); Palenque b. knight, set to knight; Tikal b. trebuchet, set to knight; Allegheny b. library, set to barracks; Quirigua b. knight, set to knight; Akwesasne b. longbowman, set to worker; Tequixquiac captured (1 worker); Zitlaltepec captured, set to worker; Redlined horseman gains 50g from goody-hut, but likely will be killed by Aztec archer next turn (too greedy);

640 AD (5) - Kaminaljuyu b. knight, set to knight; Piedras Negras b. knight, set to knight; IBT - lost Akwesasne to Aztec archer (lost offensive attack during my turn);

650 AD (6) - Forbidden Palace b. in Salamanca, set to library; Copan b. knight, set to knight; Dzibilchaltun b. marketplace, set to library; Tazumal b. worker, set to worker; Captured Tlapanaloya; Recaptured Akwesasne, Elite Horseman generates MGL (Blue-Quetzal-Macaw) - moving him near the front before creating an army of knights (MGL has a movement of 3 - I believe an army without units has a movement of 1);

660 AD (7) - WW hit hard, bumping luxuries 10%; Went ahead and built army w/ MGL, so we can have a chance at more MGL's w/ on-going war; Holy Cow! It happened. Elite horseman north of New CI generates MGL (Eighteen Rabbit);

670 AD (8) - Niagara Falls b. courthouse, set to pikeman; Palenque b. knight, set to knight; Yaxchilan b. knight, set to knight; DGI b. caravel, set to bank; Ake, b. aqueduct, set to library; Cozumel b. courthouse, set to library; New Copan b. worker, set to pikeman; 18 Rabbit b. army in New CI; Knight Army victorious during first attack on Tepetlaoxtoc; Tepetlaoxtoc captured; JT enslaves Aztec longbowman;

680 AD (9) - Maneuvers.

690 AD (10) - Bonampak b. knight, set to knight; Cattaraugus b. knight, set to knight; Quirigua b. knight, set to knight; Calakmul b. knight, set to knight; Piedras Negras b. knight, set to knight; Coba b. courthouse, set to library; Tlapanaloya deposed our governor; New Palenque b. worker, set to worker;

Hand-over Notes: WW is becoming an issue, but we can afford bumping luxuries another 10% or more. Because of our treachery, the Aztecs must be annhiliated. Using several workers to build roadways north, to lessen travel time. Several knights were just produced and "enroute" north (currently not under go-to orders). The FP was completed during my turns. We can also build the Heroic Epic, but next up can decide that location. The Aztecs are pumping out the Longbowmen. I've got a knight army w/ a few knights stacked outside of one Aztec town, ready to go. Also, there are some wounded knights northeast of New CI that failed trying to capture the Aztec town. Trebuchets are stacked, moving tow our northern most town. There are two knight laden caravels moving north along our western coast. Dropped off one knight to pop a GH, gaining a map. Just reload him and begin moving north again. Although the travel is an investment in turns, it may prve beneficial once they arrive into Aztec waters. An empty army is moving toward Jilotzingo from the west.

Aztecan-Mayan Front Line

Roster:
Beamup
dojoboy (just played)
Serkhon (up!)
Blue Monkey (on deck)
frunobulax
Aoxomoxoa

 

[Beamup]

Two armies! Gotta love that bit of PRNG goodness. Should fill the new one up ASAP. I also note we may have a problem. The Aztecs have Gunpowder! Hope they don't have Saltpeter hooked up, or this could get messy.

 

[frunobulax]

Two MGLs! Way to go Dojoboy

 

[Serkhon]

I'll be able to play later tonight.

 

[dojoboy]

Okay, I didn't load an elite knight into that army. There was a promotion when it won it's first battle, but would it look like that?

 

[frunobulax]

...but would it look like that?

How do you mean?

 

[dojoboy]

How do you mean?

Well, it looks like I loaded an elite knight into the army. But, the army gained a promotion when it made an attack. I always thought the entire army was promoted, not individual units within the army.

 

[Beamup]

Nope. The army doesn't itself have an experience level, so the only thing that can happen is that an individual unit is promoted.

I'm not really sure what happens next, though. It may be that it's now hard for the other Knights to get promoted, as the Elite will do most of the fighting. Or it may not because that distinction isn't made. I just don't know, though I'd like to.

 

[Blue Monkey]

It may be that it's now hard for the other Knights to get promoted, as the Elite will do most of the fighting.

It also makes me wonder how GL generation is affected by the elite unit being in an army.

 

[Beamup]

It also makes me wonder how GL generation is affected by the elite unit being in an army.

Unfortunately that's straightforward. Elites in an army cannot generate MGLs.

 

[Serkhon]

The war is going smoothly at the moment and I'll post the turnlog and savefile when I complete all of the turns some time later today.

 

[Serkhon]

Due to Time contraints I only played 5 turns

Turn 1 700 AD
Copan Knight -> Knight
Allegheny Barracks -> Knight
Oil Springs Library ->Harbor
Centralia Worker -> Library
Kabah Courthouse-> Marketplace
We capture Teavo and two workers with no losses
We capture Ixtapaluca with no losses

IBT: Only one attack from the Iro but it manages to take out a full health knight in Ixt

Turn 2 710 AD
Salamanca Library -> Heroic Epic
Tikal Knight -> Knight
St Regis Worker -> Worker
Mayapan Marketplace -> Caravel
Cleaning up some of the remaining forces around Ixtapaluca and Teavo
Borders sighted across the sea.
Tlapanaloya is down to a single defender

Turn 3 720 AD
Palenque Knight -> Knight
Caravel sighting the borders sinks so we don't get to break out isolation (If we want to)

IBT We lose 3 Knights due to poor RNG

Turn 4 730 AD
Tulum Library -> Marketplace
Another Great Leader!

Turn 5 740 AD
Navigation Completes we start on Economics
Our People want to build The Pentagon
Yaxchilan Knight -> Knight
Quirigua Knight -> Knight
Peodras Negras Knight -> Knight
The resistance ends in both Ixtapaluca and Teavu
Jilotzingo Worker -> Library




Handover Notes: There hasn't been a huge problem with WW yet but It'll likely be coming up soon. Both Ixtapaluca and Teayo look like they'll flip if we remove and more troops. The Caravel in the west should be able to unload next turn after that you might want to send it exploring west. I'm not really sure what we should do with our newly acquired third army so I left if for you to move wherever.

View attachment Mac Mayaniac of the Maya, 740 AD.SAV.zip

 

[Blue Monkey]

Downloaded the save. There's time for people to make comments before I play, which will be later tonight.

 

[Blue Monkey]

I can't wait any longer to get my grubby little hands in the mix. I'm taking my 10 turns in paradise now.

 

[Blue Monkey]

PreTurn/740 AD - Changed production in Akwesasne to Warrior (will free up Knight). Same in Zitlaltapec. Notice a lot of cities slipping too close to unhappiness; bumped entertainment up one notch to 40%. Noting our huge treasury, also bump science one notch up to 30%; we’ll now get Economics in 9 rather than 14 . After these two changes we still have an income of 47 gp.
750 AD - Lost Horseman near Tlapanalova to Archer attack. Took 2 Aztec archers to take down our wounded Knight at Huexotla . Teayo flips to Aztecs (we lose Army, ouch!).


BUILDS: Copan knight =>knight. Calakmul knight=>knight. Akwesasne warrior=>worker. Zitlaltapec warrior=>temple. Tazumal worker=>barracks. Centralia production switched to Spearman and bought for 60 gp; aztec archer sneaking within 1 turn range; no garrison & noone in range to protect.

Attack continues against Tlapanalova. 3 Knights debark to attack Tlalmanalco. 3 Knights debark north of Jilotzingo near land bridge.


760 AD - Caravel (already in red) defeats attacking Aztec galley, then is sunk by Barbs.
BUILDS: Palenque Knight=>Temple. Kaminaljuyu Knight=>Courthouse. Knights Templar built in Cuello=>Barracks. Centralia Spearman=>Warrior.

Tlalmanoc loses a spearman; our knight is lost weakening their remaining spearman. We take Atzcapotzalco; set to build Pikeman. Our army attacks Huexotla, a second knight in it becomes elite, so I rename it “Northern Knights Army”. Elite Knight captures Huexotla (set to build Walls), renamed “Huex Knight” , makes a GL.


Bought Pikemen to free Knights for offensive action: Tequixquiac (76 gp), Tepetlaoxtoc (88 gp), Niagra Falls (no garrison, 48 gp), New Copan (no garrison, 56 gp), Ixtapaluca (100 gp), Coyotepec (68 gp).

A lot of cities are already in or nearing disorder; I decide to take drastic action: Ake switches to & buys temple (144 gp); Allegheny buys coliseum (364 gp); Calakmul buys temple (192 gp); Cattaraugus buys coliseum (220 gp); Coba gets temple (100 gp); Copan = temple (184 gp); Cozumel = temple (96); DGI = coliseum (232); Dzibichaltun = temple (88); Ek Balam = coliseum(168); Grand River = coliseum (96) ; Kaminaljuyu = coliseum (966); Lagartero switch University to Coliseum (loss of 65 shields); Marlboro Country buys coliseum (296); Cuello, Quirigua, & Uxmal (lose 4 shields) switched to temple. Tikal switched to coliseum. Uaxatun switched university to coliseum (lose 42 shields).
Switch entertainment to 50%, science to 20% (Economics in 11).

770 AD - Centralia captured by Aztecs. Knight lost near Tlapanalova. Huexotla fends off our attacks but defenders are redlined.

Niagra Falls rioting, give entertainer. Mauch Chunk rioting; give entertainer & swap courthouse build for temple. River Crossing rioting give entertainer; switch to temple. Lazapa rioting; entertainer & =>temple. New CI rioting entertainer + building temple. New Copan rioting entertainer + building temple.

BUILDS: Niagra Falls Pikeman=>aqueduct. Copan temple=>Knight. Grand River coliseum=>temple. Allegheny coliseum=>temple. Lagartero Coliseum=>temple. Cattaraugus riots but produces coliseum (which will restore)=>temple. Calakmul temple=>cathedral. DGI coliseum=>harbor. Kaminaljuyu coliseum=>harbor. Uaxactun coliseum=>temple. Ixtapaluca Pikeman=> temple. Coba=>colliseum. Dzibi =>colliseum. Uxmal temple=>aqueduct. Tepetlaoxtoc pikeman=>temple. Ake =>colliseum. Coyotepec pikeman=>walls. Tequixquiac pikeman=>walls. Marlboro=>temple. Ek Balam =>temple. Cozumel =>aqueduct. Xcalumkin Courthouse=>pikeman.

Aztecs build Leonardo’s in Tenochtitlan. I decide to make Peace because of unrest & need to build up forces along the front. (plan for it to be very temporary; give Theology & 800 gp, get Maps & gunpowder). GL used to make army at Ixtapaluca. With gunpowder 2 sources of saltpeter are revealed within our territory; moving quickly to exploit both.




780 AD - We Love The Great Instigator Days celebrated far and wide.
BUILDS: Mayapan Caravel=>aqueduct.
People build Palace addition. Many entertainers converted to taxmen/production. Coban switch to aqueduct.
Maneuvering troops to be prepared for resumption of hostilities.

790 AD - Science to 30%. Celebrations end. Aztecs building Sistine Chapel.
BUILDS: Quirigua =>musketman. Oil Springs . =>Barracks. New Palenque worker=>courthouse.

800 AD - BUILDS: Palenque temple=>knight.
Another Palace addition. New Tikal founded. horseman upgraded to knight at Grand River.

810 AD - Caravel attacked by two barb galleys; defeats them and gains Elite status.
BUILDS: Tikal colliseum=>musketman. Yaxchilan knight=>knight. Bonampak knight=>settler (it has outgrown available space).

Knights Templar produce crusader. Palace extension built. Demand removal of longbow men, Aztecs cave.


820 AD - BUILDS: Copan knight=>bank. Mauch Chunk temple=>courthouse. Cuello temple=>barracks. St Regis worker=>walls.

Atzcapotzalco flips, we lose trebuchets.


830 AD - Aztecs warn us to leave territory they regained, which we were already doing. Learn Economics; go for Chemistry (on the way to Metallurgy).
BUILDS: Lagarto temple=>barracks. Cattaraugus =>harbor. Quirigua musketman=>knight.

840 AD - BUILDS: Salamanca builds Heroic Epic=>barracks. Palenque Knight=>Knight. Grand River temple=>musketman. Allegheny temple=>knight. Oil Springs barracks=>courthouse. Piedras Negras knight=>knight.

Some units’ moves left undone since I don’t know how frunobulax will want to play from this point.

Recap: This was a hard session. When I play alone I strive to build a strong cultural position from the start, so the flips caught me by surprise. Some may disagree with my spending the treasury; my philosophy is that ‘s why it’s there, and we needed to regain control to keep building for the war. The temporary peace I saw as necessary because our attack was losing steam; our best armies were tied up defending cities our other forces hadn’t reached yet, and the Aztecs were about to exploit that & our WW to turn the tide. I exploited the peace negotiations to gain us parity vis. Gunpowder. From what I can see, we will rejoin combat in a stronger domestic position. If I’ve shot our collective foot, I apologize, and hope you will teach me better in the kindest way possible.

Roster:
Beamup
dojoboy
Serkhon
Blue Monkey (just played)
frunobulax (up!)
Aoxomoxoa (on deck)

Here’s the save:View attachment 115822

 

[Blue Monkey]

I don't know why those stupid black boxws show up when I use ImageShack. The images were last handled in GraphicConverter.

 

[Beamup]

Observations:
Concur with all the buys, temporary peace seems reasonable - but far from necessary. I shadowed much of your turns, and the Aztecs were nowhere near "turning the tide," or even causing us major problems. Particularly if we went fully offensive instead of worrying about defending captured cities - the best defense here is to cut down their Longbows in the open field as they try to get past our Knights to attack empty cities.

The Aztecs do not have any Saltpeter, which is comforting.

Losing the Army and Trebuchets is why you never leave more than minimal, disposable units in captured cities.

Entertainment is way too high. It should've been turned down drastically as soon as peace was signed.

We should try and get the old Iro peninsula settled to keep the barbs from popping up there so much. The small island south of there is also a prime city site - the farthest N corner is ideal. The other two small islands can wait.

We need to send a Caravel across the ocean NOW. We want to make contact ASAP!

Our southern cities have no need for garrisons. Those units should be upgraded and sent north to the front where they can actually become useful. We certainly shouldn't be wasting elite units on garrison duty in unthreatened towns (see River Crossing for an example).

With an empire this size, we are definitely going to want to go Communist at the earliest opportunity. We're losing nearly a third of our income, and a corresponding proportion of our production, to corruption.

The Pike N of Grand River can be redeployed due to our border expansion in the area, as he is no longer needed for barb suppression. The small peninsula near Niagara Falls has been left uncovered! That's an open invitation for a huge pile of barbs to pop up right in our heartland and go on a rampage. A unit must be deployed there, and remain there until Niagara Falls can expand its border to keep that tile out of the fog.

While the Aztecs don't seem to be building Horsemen much, their source of Horses is in easy reach by Atzcapsomething. We should take that out shortly after redeclaring war. For which we don't need to wait all that long.

Tlalmanalco may be a slightly harder nut to crack, as they are about to hook up a source of Iron there. If they manage to get a Harbor there, that would be catastrophic. Even one turn of access to Iron, and Knights and Pikemen would pop up all over their empire. Might even be worth a one-turn declaration of war to take out that Worker.

Looking at their territory, this shouldn't be that bad. Their core cities are all in the south, in easy reach. We can break their back pretty quickly.

 

[Blue Monkey]

... if we went fully offensive instead of worrying about defending captured cities - the best defense here is to cut down their Longbows in the open field as they try to get past our Knights to attack empty cities. ... Losing the Army and Trebuchets is why you never leave more than minimal, disposable units in captured cities.

Yes, I tend to play a lot more conservatively than other players. I need to remind myself that if they retake the city, they're only paying dearly for what was theirs to begin with, wereas we stand only to gain when fighting on their territory.

. The Aztecs do not have any Saltpeter, which is comforting.

Which is all the more reason to re-engage them now.

Entertainment is way too high. It should've been turned down drastically as soon as peace was signed. ...Our southern cities have no need for garrisons.

Both things I would normally think of, if I wasn't playing too far past my bedtime.No excuses, just agreeing with you.

... source of Horses ... by Atzcapsomething. We should take that out shortly after redeclaring war. ...Tlalmanalco ... they are about to hook up a source of Iron there. ... Their core cities are all in the south, in easy reach. We can break their back pretty quickly.

One of the things I hope I did right was to set up our troops for a strike right into their heartland; Tenochtitlan is only one city away from the front lines as well.

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

A couple of thoughts.

How about razing? We have so little culture developed, easy to see many of these towns flipping on us.

I have a feeling this war is going to have this same rhythm, take a a few towns then make peace. Rearm after a few turns then move back in. It takes us 3 times as long to get a knight unit to the front. The Aztecs are replacing their units much faster.

Also, shouldn't we be going after Smith's Trading Co.?

Aoxo