Complete Mac Mayania

[Beamup]

I still think that at our current levels, especially based on how long it takes to get troops to the front, in war with the aztecs we are in a situation where we can gain 10 yards, or go on and gain 20 yards only to lose 10 back during their turn.

I'd extend that analogy, though. We can gain 10 yards, then 10 on the next play, or we can gain 20, lose 10, and then gain 25 on the next play because we've chewed up more of their Longbows. It'll definitely be interesting to see how it plays out. My personal inclination is to be much too defensive, so I try to compensate for that by being more agressive than I naturally am... but am I taking that too far here?

I certainly would not have been able to hold on to Tlapanoya had not I got peace declared. If we go along with the strat of upgrading Knights to Calvary, I recommend getting a barracks (for upgrading) built up somewhere along the front lines (probably needs to be rushed). IIRC we were at about +395 gold at a 40% science/0% ent level with just about every city filled with with happy citizens.

We've redeclared peace again? (Not that that's bad - I certainly have nothing against breaking peace treaties right and left to gain a tactical advantage - I just want to be clear.)

Also, how close are we to MilTrad? I expect that will govern a good bit of my planning.

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

I'd extend that analogy, though. We can gain 10 yards, then 10 on the next play, or we can gain 20, lose 10, and then gain 25 on the next play because we've chewed up more of their Longbows. It'll definitely be interesting to see how it plays out. My personal inclination is to be much too defensive, so I try to compensate for that by being more agressive than I naturally am... but am I taking that too far here?

I felt like 'we' (the whole team) we're being aggressive, but I'd take a city, have half damaged Knights and the army, and see a TON of longbowman streaming into position. So I'd pick off as many of those as i could, and more streamed down to replace them. So I'd back into friendly territory to regain HP's, and found myself trying to get peace before losing the ground I had gained there. I was very wary of having much in the cities themselves due to flipping, so that made the just conquered cities doubly vulnerable.

We've redeclared peace again? (Not that that's bad - I certainly have nothing against breaking peace treaties right and left to gain a tactical advantage - I just want to be clear.)

Yes, currently we are at peace.

Also, how close are we to MilTrad? I expect that will govern a good bit of my planning.

3 turns IIRC to finish Metallurgy, then we are into MilTrad.

Aoxo

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

Turn One - 950 AD - Refused to leave Aztec land, so we're at war again. Man have they got the troops pouring out of the north. Lost two Knights including the one south on the western continent area to that pesky Longbowman. Took Huexotla back. Inflicted kills on many Longbowman, Destroyed the new city just west of Tlalmanalco. Adjusted sliders for immediate WW effects.

Turn Two - 960 AD - Lost a Knight and another redlined at Tlalamanco. Backed off to allow reserves to join in. Killed various troops out in the open, but didn't assault any cities.

Turn Three - 970 AD - Captured Teayo and Tlapanoya. Scrambling to keep army near Huexatla alive. Troops mustering hard in that neighborhood. Killed some more troops including a settler/spearman that landed in the west south of Centrailia.

Turn Four - 980 AD - Captured Tlamanco. Killed a few more loose troops. Still trying to keep that army alive, but I think it's a lost cause, but the good news is, we got another army!

Turn 5 - 990 AD Lost the army and 2 3 other knights. Made peace with Aztecs and kept the cities we captured. Got monarchy (woop-de-doo) and 16 gold (woop-de-do) for the peace. Traded Theology to the Dutch for 125 gold (their treasury).

Turn 6 - 1000 AD - Reset sliders for peacetime (and to build up treasury). Dutch have started Sistine's Chapel. Landed a settler onto the other continent. Not much space. Traded for wines, dyes, silk from Portugal, traded Ivory from Celts. Founded New Yaxchilan on the Eastern Continent.

Turn 7 - 1010 AD - Nothing of consequence (finally).

Turn 8 - 1020 AD - Nothing of consequence.

Turn 9 - 1030 AD - Told the Aztecs to get off our land. Strangely they are still furious with us. Celts and Portugal start JS Bach's

Turn 10 - 1040 AD - Founded New Bonampak. Founded New Lagotero. The Dutch will trade incense/20g/2gpt for banking. I'll leave it for you to decide whether that's a good deal or not. 5 turns till MilTrad. Looks like the stinky aztecs snuck another city in by that Iron! Bastages!









View attachment Mac Mayaniac of the Maya, 1040 AD.SAV.zip

Aoxo

 

[Beamup]

Got it. Will take a closer look and possibly micro now, play tomorrow afternoon/evening (I hope).

 

[Ansar]

lurker's comment: Looks very interesting. Great job on finally seeing a game in .

 

[Beamup]

Preturn checkup:

By boosting research to 60%, we get MT in 3 turns (min time) at a profit. I choose to get MT first, and worry about cash for upgrades second.

I sign RoPs all around for maps and gold. We might as well profit from them in terms of maps, gold, and freedom - they certainly can't move through our territory for a while! I also observe a reassuring tech lead.

We have little unhappiness. Exceptions: Salamanca, River Crossing, Mauch Chunk (switched to Marketplace). A few others are close. Salamanca and River Crossing will need Marketplaces next. But from our current situation, we have little need for that last luxury. I'll keep it in mind for later WW, though.

New Bonampak is building a Longbowman for no readily apparent reason. Swapped to Courthouse.

Chichen Itza is building the Sistine Chapel? This is pointless, there is no chance whatsoever we'll get it first given how far behind on it we are. The Aztecs are the best candidate to pull it anyway, and we'll just take it away. Swapped to Bank.

Various other cities swapped to urgent Courthouses or away from military without Barracks.

I note that Bonampak needs its forests cleared away so it can grow again.

Units in garrisons awakened and moved towards the front. My basic game plan is to wait 3 turns for MT, while gathering Knights at barracks - Tazumal especially is well situated. Then I will upgrade as many of them as I can to Cavs and launch the next assault once they reach the border. I count 15 units outside of Huexotla, which will mostly be exterminated in the first turn. Should take a big bite out of their army.

I'm also curious as to the thinking behind New Yax. I don't see what this city is supposed to gain us, so obviously I'm missing something. Anyone care to enlighten me?

P.S. and complete tangent: Does anybody else read The Order of the Stick?

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

Preturn checkup:

Units in garrisons awakened and moved towards the front. My basic game plan is to wait 3 turns for MT, while gathering Knights at barracks - Tazumal especially is well situated. Then I will upgrade as many of them as I can to Cavs and launch the next assault once they reach the border. I count 15 units outside of Huexotla, which will mostly be exterminated in the first turn. Should take a big bite out of their army.

Watch out for the massive amount of reserves they seem to bring along. Remember, Tnochtilan has Leonardo's. Need that for the upgrades.

I'm also curious as to the thinking behind New Yax. I don't see what this city is supposed to gain us, so obviously I'm missing something. Anyone care to enlighten me?

A nice vacation spot?

P.S. and complete tangent: Does anybody else read The Order of the Stick?

No, but that was cute.

 

[Beamup]

Need that for the upgrades.

Want, not need. Looks ATM more like we'll want the Cavs before we get there, so I don't see much option.

 

[Beamup]

OK, looks like I didn't manage to play last night. Will try to get it done today.

 

[SimpleMonkey]

lurker's comment: Some unsolicited advice. It might make sense to make a move now on Aztecs with the knights (esp. the knight armies) you have and take Tenochticlan ASAP. Since Huexotla is currently surrounded on all sides, the culture pressure for it flipping is currently pretty high. And since it makes such a dandy take-off point for driving to Tenochtictlan, it would be a shame to lose it. You might want to consider a raze and replace strategy, since you can continue to pump out settlers at a pretty good clip, and that saves you the trouble of having to leave troops on garrison duty. You can take Tenochticlan in one or two turns, use Leo's for a mass upgrade to cavs, and then sweep the Aztec off the planet. Remember, if you want good relations with the guys across the sea, you'll never want them to even know that the Aztec once existed.

Enjoy.

 

[Beamup]

Playing now. Will post later - but the war is going quite well, aside from a bunch of ex-Aztec cities that I can't keep from either rioting or starving. Oh well, let them riot or starve if they must, I'm certainly not stopping now!

 

[Beamup]

Note: I've really come to dislike playing on my iBook, due to the small screen and need for a modifier for Fkeys and number pad. But I can't use my new iMac at work.

Interturn: More Knights produced and started. Aztecs complete the Sistine Chapel - it seems my prediction was correct and we can just capture it. They then start on Magellan's Voyage - UH OH. They need to be dropped quickly before they can get overseas! Dutch swap from Sistine to Bach, as do the Celts.

1050 AD (1): Due to the realization that the Aztecs somehow got to Navigation really fast, I decide that the assault needs to go in now. The Cavs can wait - Knights are more than capable of taking out all their current units anyway. Rear-area Knights headed for Tazumal for upgrading in 2 turns. My battle plan is to push our Knights on a concentrated front in the west, letting the soon-to-come Cavs to roll up the east coast.

War is redeclared. We raze Coatepec for no losses, though a Knight is redlined doing it. 4 Knights and 1 Elite Horseman are headed for Centralia via Tultitlan. Elite Archer slain to the south.



11 Longbows and 1 Spearman are slain in the opening assault on the front lines. 1 Worker captured. 1 Knight lost in an insanely bad run of luck. I'm keeping our Armies in position to screen most of our Knights, since the AI doesn't like to attack armies. 7 visible Longbows remain at the front. 2 redlined Knights are exposed and will likely die, but I'll take a 4:1 exchange rate. They can't sustain that for long, I don't think.

WW spikes hugely - likely residual from the last war. I trade for the Incense, paying our WM and extra Iron (it's not like we need to worry about fighting them). Entertainment to 20% - that's the minimum that will keep Salamanca from rioting without a starvation diet. Why in the WORLD did we let it grow anywhere near that big without a Marketplace?!? At least the cities where we've built the essential infrastructure are happy.

Interturn: England and Portugal stop fighting. 2 Longbows and a Galley down, 3 Knights lost. Teayo is rioting, can't be stopped by any means. Entire population set to Scientists. Palace expansion.

1060 AD (2): Inexplicably, much of the WW is gone??? Entertainment down to 10%. MilTrad now due in 1 at 50% science. There are now 9 Knights in Tazumal, with 2 more en route. 11 Cavs next turn!

14 Longbows and one Spearman are now in sight. 12 Longbows are slain for no losses. No Knights are currently exposed.

Current Tally
Our kills: 25 Longbows, 1 Spear, 1 Galley, 1 Worker.
Our losses: 4 Knights.

So far, so good. Cavs coming in next turn, will go into action in 2.

Interturn: 4 Longbows and 1 Spearman appear, 1 Caravel lost to an enemy Galley. MilTrad comes in, Physics in 4. Cavalry in production across the empire! Teayo flips, no losses because I didn't leave anything in the city.

1070 AD (3): 11 Knights upgraded for only 330 gold... I was expecting a lot more expense for some reason. Not sure why. Anyway, we've got a big treasury now, of which I spend a good chunk on Marketplaces and Courthouses. Disperse another barb camp on the Iro peninsula.

We lose a Horseman capturing Tultitlan. Since it was on a hill, I'm actually pleased with that low toll. On the way to Centralia.

At the main front, 5 Longbows and 2 Spearmen are slain for no losses.

Current Tally
Our kills: 30 Longbows, 3 Spearmen, 1 Galley, 1 Worker.
Our losses: 4 Knights, 1 Horseman.
1 city captured, 1 flipped.

Interturn: Worker is recaptured - I wasn't about to detail units to cover it as opposed to protecting Knights! 3 Longbows currently visible. Is that all they've got, or are more moving in from the back lines?

1080 AD (4): Lose 1 Knight to bad rolls before nailing a pair of Longbows. Teayo recaptured, killing 2 Spearmen for no losses. No enemy units in sight. Some of our Knights and two Armies take a time out for healing, our new Cavs and the rest of our Knights (supported by several Musketmen) are advancing on enemy cities.

Current Tally
Our kills: 32 Longbows, 5 Spearmen, 1 Galley.
Our losses: 5 Knights, 1 Horseman.
2 cities captured, 1 flipped.

Interturn: Lose a Musketman to a Longbow. Zitlaltepec flips! For crying out loud. A garrisoned city, in the middle of our territory, celebrating WLTKD!?! That's ridiculous - the Aztecs don't even have much more total culture than we do. 2 citizens out of 6 were Aztec, that was its only risk factor. Anyway, Tultitlan is rioting and can't be stopped. Spain starts Bach.

1090 AD (5): Healing and maneuvering forces, that's about it.

Interturn: 1 Longbow killed by a Musketman. They seem to be trying a counterattack with a couple Longbows and Spears!

1100 AD (6): 2 Spearmen and 2 Longbows nailed. Zitlaltepec recaptured by one of our new Cavs.

Compoala is defended by 3 Spearmen. Well, it was. Lost 1 Cav taking it.

Current Tally
Our kills: 35 Longbows, 10 Spearmen, 1 Galley.
Our losses: 5 Knights, 1 Horseman, 1 Cavalry.
4 cities captured, 2 flipped.

Interturn: 2 Longbows try to kill a Musketman on a hill. They fail. Physics comes in, research on ToG next as we have no real need for more seapower but Newton would be nice.

1110 AD (7): Calixtlahuaca captured, killing 3 Spearmen. 1 Spearman killed at Centralia. Texaxpan captured from 3 Spearmen. 4 Spearmen killed at Chicosomething, revealing a Longbow. No losses.

Current Tally
Our kills: 37 Longbows, 21 Spearmen, 1 Galley.
Our losses: 5 Knights, 1 Horseman, 1 Cavalry.
6 cities captured, 2 flipped.

Interturn: A Longbow redlines one of our Knights, but is slain. I really don't see many Aztec units moving around - maybe 4-5 per turn. They appear to have shot their bolt, and should roll up readily if we keep pushing hard.

1120 AD (8): We are up to 19 Knights and 22 Cavs. 3-4 Cavs are completing each turn and setting out for the front. It may be overkill, but we can always disband them to rush courthouses or whatever later.

3 Longbows slain in the field. "Gen. Aoxo" is slain facing a Spearman, but another Knight finishes up. 2 Longbows slain at Chico, 1 Cav actually loses to a defending Regular Longbow! Freakish. Still, we took the city and a Settler. 3 Spearmen and a Longbow die defending 6 Workers at Tlaxcala! 1 Spearman slain to take Centralia. Those Knights are now moving to deal with the Barbs on the peninsula.

WW kicks up a notch, so does the Entertainment slider. Some Marketplaces are rushed to deal with some major problem spots, but Salamanca is in major trouble. Not starving yet, but close. Quite a few entertainers in use, but I'm not about to give in to WW when they're on the ropes! The best solution to WW now is to end the war by wiping the continent clean! It's mainly our ex-Aztec cities anyway, we can let them riot if we must.

Current tally
Our kills: 44 Longbows, 25 Spearmen.
Our losses: 6 Knights, 1 Horseman, 2 Cavalry.
9 cities captured, 2 flipped.

Interturn: A Longbow dies trying to kill a Musketman. A Spearman comes out of nowhere to recapture Calix somehow??? Must have been very inattentive there. Ah well, there's an Army outside so they won't have it for long. Riots in former Azteca.

1130 AD (9): Recapture Calix from 2 Spearmen. 1 Longbow slain in the field. 1 Spearman killed at Tula. Lots of healing.

Current tally
Our kills: 46 Longbows, 28 Spearmen.
Our losses: 1 Horseman, 6 Knights, 2 Cavalry.
9 cities captured, 2 flipped.

Interturn: A whole pile of Settler pairs is headed for Atzcap for some reason. Smith's completes. Magellan completes.

1140 AD (10): Tula captured from 2 spears. 1 Cav lost at Atzcap, 1 Longbow slain outside.

Current tally
Our kills: 47 Longbows, 30 Spearmen.
Our losses: 1 Horseman, 6 Knights, 3 Cavalry.
10 cities captured, 2 flipped.

Handoff notes:
We have substantial forces in place to assault Aztcap and Tenoch, but note the stack of Spears and Settlers (with a couple Longbows) outside Aztcap - that might not be pretty. Maybe they'll be obliging and leave the city?

The Aztecs have 11 cities left, 2 under threat. They only have 3 core cities left unthreatened - the other 6 are marginal in the tundra. Given that I took 10 cities during my turns and the Aztec military is pretty much gassed, dojoboy should be able to finish this - or very nearly, anyway. Just remain resolute and let the captured cities riot if needed. Don't give in to WW until they are completely destroyed!

We currently have 18 Knights and 22 Cavs. That's probably adequate so military production can maybe be turned off - I leave that call to dojoboy.

Pics of the current front are below.

Roster:
Beamup (just played)
dojoboy (up!)
Serkhon (on deck)
Blue Monkey
Frunobolax
Aoxomoxoa

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

I will assume it was because Salamanca was busy building the Forbidden Palace for many turns.

 

[dojoboy]

Got it!

Beamup, is your military advisor available?

 

[Ansar]

lurker's comment: About the muskets attacking the longbows, the AI sometimes loses their head when losing and just tries to counterattack with anything they got, as long as its attack is +1 your units defense.

 

[Beamup]

I will assume it was because Salamanca was busy building the Forbidden Palace for many turns.

Yeah, but then it started on other things - Bach's right now, for example. There was ample opportunity.

Beamup, is your military advisor available?

Sure is. It is, in fact, a whole set. Quite a nice one, too.

About the muskets attacking the longbows, the AI sometimes loses their head when losing and just tries to counterattack with anything they got, as long as its attack is +1 your units defense.

It was longbows attacking fortified muskets on a hill - Monty doesn't have any resources at all. Their attack was no higher than our defense.

 

[k-a-bob]

Lurker comment: Can you get any towns for peace? If so, that could speed up the conquest just a bit (since you need to get rid of them fast - and since you don't care about your rep with them.)

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

Lurker comment: Can you get any towns for peace? If so, that could speed up the conquest just a bit (since you need to get rid of them fast - and since you don't care about your rep with them.)

The race right now is to eliminate aztecs before there is any contact with the other 5 civ's on the other continent.

Played a few turns on Beamup's save. As a heads up to Dojoboy, watch out for settler/spears on boats trying to get a foothold back on the western landmass.

I'd start moving ships toward that west coast to sink any aztec vessels, just about the time we think there gone.. up pops another city out of the blue.

Aoxo

 

[dojoboy]

Bear w/ me guys. I'll get this in within the time frame, just not as quick as we've been moving. I've a plate full, but I hope to play tonight after 10:00 pm EST.

 

[k-a-bob]

The race right now is to eliminate aztecs before there is any contact with the other 5 civ's on the other continent.


Aoxo

Exactly. Take some towns for free (disband if you have to) and immediately redeclare war. Your rep is already ruined - may as well use that to it's full advantage. But if you think that is too exploitive, then nevermind.