Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Roger_Mellie, Nov 8, 2005.
What about a Custom Game:
Small Continents or Islands
1 Civ per landmass
You could start a custom game: 7 custom continents, and only 6 AI slots open in addition to the one human. I don't know how big the map would have to be to ensure 7-10 city sites, but I suspect it'd have to be huge. Even so, you'd have to examine the map and swap starting units around if some continent got zero civs.
In plain vanilla civ you can choose custom continents
with one continent per team.
now this isnt eligble for halll of fame and I dont know if bts has this
7-10 cities is more like a continent than an island
<edit>oh looks likea few people had the same suggestion
Question: Is the shared military struggle bonus permanent?
I was wondering what is good science beaker numbers throughout the game?
I know this number will varie but I want some general numbers:
In my current game:
Noble, Pangaea, Standard size, all options at default.
I got Vikings (Random)
I had 70-75 at 1AD
I have 400 at 1400AD (60%)
I have 12 cities, 6 Univercity and going to Oxford (20 turns) in my capital that has 82 points in science.
I have difficulties to judge my science rate with other civs and if I'm winning of losing advantage.
I had a swordmen war between 400AD and 1000AD and I feel that war was costful science wise.
Thank you in advance.
I think this is almost the exact same question asked by Yanner39 about 23 posts ago
By DMOC's suggestion, 400 per turn at 1400 AD at 60% sounds like you aren't doing too badly.
At this part of the game it might be a good idea to find ways to increase that slider above 60%. Some thoughts about this:
1) I guess start by having a few dedicated science cities. These cities hopefully have lots of commerce from special resources or villages/towns as well as science multiplier buildings like libraries and universities and observatories if you have reached Astronomy.
2) Since those cities only multiply science science not raw commerce commerce you get the most benefit out of them if your science slider is high.
3) Make sure you have the currency tech. Not only does it give your cities an extra trade route, but the biggest benefits are trading gold with the AI (point 4) and building wealth (point 5) and markets (point 6).
4) If tech rate is what you are most interested in (eg, you want to build a space ship) then selling techs to the AI for gold is a good idea. Even if you get a poor deal out of it (eg, only get 200 gold for a tech worth 1000 science) it is still worth doing. That 200 gold might sustain your research at 100% for an extra 4 or 5 turns for example. Of course, if you want to keep the AI in the dark ages so that you can kill them with infantry and artillery then this might not be for you.
5) You've just had a long war. Did you come out on top. Did you capture a few cities? In some cases it might take a long time for those newly captured cities to get good buildings in them and become productive. But they can already be productive by building Wealth.
As an example, lets say you have two cities and your expenses are 25 gold. City #1 has a library, university and academy (+100%) and 40 raw commerce. City #2 has only 10 raw commerce, but does make 25 hammers.
You *could* sustain your 2 city empire with the slider at 50% (city #1 = 40*50% = 20 + city #2 = 5*50% = 5, covers your 25 gold expenses, with left over research of (city #1 = 50%*40*200% from buildings = 40 + city #2 = 5*50% = 5) 45.
Or by building wealth in city #2 it covers all your expenses, so you can have the slider at 100%. This is then 40*100%*200% in city #1 = 80, and 10*100% in city #2 = 10, total of 90.
So while it may seem strange at first, in this example that city producing 25 gold through wealth has actually increased your science by 45.
6) If you've built markets or grocers in one or two cities, you can assign merchant specialists. These generate gold no matter what the slider is at, so can cover your expenses much the same way that wealth does. (If you choose the caste system civic then you can assigne merchants without the need for markets - although they won't get the +25% gold bonus)
7) Reduce your costs. If you are no longer at war, and aren't planning on another in the not too distance future, consider disbanding some units. Starting with the least experienced ones.
8) Similarly, if you have many cities, some of them quite far from your palace, then building courthouses can really help. If you've conquered a nearby AI then with enough courthouses you can build a Forbidden Palace and even more greatly reduce the maintenance costs in those cities.
Sorry if I've gone in to way too much detail and haven't actually answered your question... I just wanted to add something that hasn't already been said recently.
Hello, I have been reading throughout this forum for a while. I have a question: What do people mean by 1.5 workers per city (what exactly is a .5)?
3 for 2 cities, 6 when you settle the fourth ... (it's a hard rule - you can adapt, but don't work unimproved tiles, grow as fast as possible)
Is warmongering with your science slider at zero, in order to extract techs from a more scientifically advanced civ through numerous peace treaties (involving war, peace treaty with techs, war, peace treaty with more techs, etc.) considered a viable early game strategy, and at what stage of the game is the opposing civ generally more likely to refuse peace when you are parked outside their capital, then accept a peace including all techs available to give you?
It's a bit of a risky game strategy, as the AI may stubbornly refuse to hand over some of the techs you want in return for peace. In fact, I've often seen a near-dead AI leader refuse to cough up any techs in return for peace. (I'm no expert in the programming of the AI, but in my experience, there appears to be some sort of "tipping point" where the AI seems to determine that it's about to die and won't give you anything! Can anyone confirm this?)
It's certainly viable to obtain a few techs for peace, but it can complicate diplomacy (all those "You declared war on our friend!" demerits...). I wouldn't count on it, however, as a means of filling your shopping cart with all the shiny techs you available on your enemy's shelves.
DMOC's answer shows you're bit behind.
adrianj tries to be nice, but ragnar is financial, so 75 beakers per turn in 1AD is really low.
To be clear with my answer I played a random noble pangea normal speed up to that point, and with sloppy play (only 5 cities at this point which is a clear slow expansion), I'm at 152 beakers per turn at 80%. 188 at 100% which I could sustain for a while (I have a huge pile of techs to trade for money to the AIs). I'm clearly ahead, but 1 AI has calendar which I don't have yet, so it's not a total overkill (still a clear lead, since I oracled and bulbed on my way here). I don't have an academy yet, which is also unusually late.
IMHO, you're not working enough cottages + you probably expanded even slower than I did.
edit : I played a bit more, and in 1000 AD I'm at 578 beakers per turn, @100% (sustainable for a while, I'm in the middle of a war with alex, his cities provide conquest money)
edit2 : I finished the game
In 1400 AD, I was around 800 bpt (was at 813 at the time I checked but I was past the date by 1 or 2 turns, forgot to check in the middle of my game ). I got myself a 1645 domination win, for a bit more than 100k score. For the record, the date will be out of the HoF tables, since there are at least 10 better dates already (just to say I'm not the best player around, and it was not the best game ever).
One way to have 1.5 workers per city, is to have 3 workers covering 2 cities.
I have a question: do you hesitate to settle cities with overlapping BFC's? I tend to avoid this instinctively, because it seems like a waste, but the computer regularly recommends it. Does this factor into your decisions at all?
There can be many advantages to overlap:
When the happiness caps prevent growth, one city can work the other's cottages so they continue to grow.
The above also applies to high food tiles: if one city has reached its happiness cap, the other one can take over working an overlapped food tile so it can experience rapid growth. This is especially handy for alternating whips between the two cities.
Workers can connect roads between the cities in the early game without fear of getting gobbled up by barbarian animals.
Units can move between the two cities very quickly if needed to defend against invaders.
The disadvantage comes later in the game, when those cities can grow large enough to work all their tiles, but are unable to do so. Either you'll end up with two mediocre cities, or one very strong city and a weaker suburb.
The main type of overlap I try to avoid is having two of my "strong" cities overlapping. For example, I don't want my Ironworks city and my GP farm to overlap each other, or my HE city and my best commerce city, and so on. "Strong" cities--aka highly specialized cities--should be able to work all 21 tiles in the BFC, even if it's at the expense of nearby cities with overlapping tiles.
Thanks DMOC. I just want to bump this answer because of another thread "ORG vs FIN". For the guidelines you list above, how are these affected by whether you are playing with a leader that is Financial versus one that is not? The reason I am asking is because when I use a Financial leader, say Hannibal, I seem to not even worry about my tech rate. However, I have started a couple of games as Julius Caesar and I have so much difficulties getting my beakers per turn count up? Now, I must say that I started these games simply as a test to see. I never really intended on playing them through - I just wanted to see the difference. Is there that much of a significant difference early in the game or where my test simply a coincidence?
Is 100 beakers or 200 beakers per turn at 1AD achievable or a stretch in a leader is non-FIN? I have the impression that losing the tech race early like at 1AD could have bad implications if another leader DOW on me.
100 beakers at 1AD should never be a problem.
It's not the only thing you should check, but this is certainly a sign.
And indeed, you're in a much more comfortable situation when you have a tech lead or at least parity.
edit: you are aware that you can "deficit research" (standard wording for using the cash in the bank to fund a higher tech slider than you can run without losing money. In the early game, this is done if you're lucky enough to pop gold from huts. Later (after currency, which is why it's so important to me) you can beg from neighbouring pleased/friendly AIs or extort (diplo penalty for extortion) from less friendly AIs. You can also sell "old" techs for good money. You can also "miss" wonders and get large cash refunds.
I don't think I got 100 beakers (even being in red with getting it) in all my Noble games at 1AD. The thought for 200 is lol. In my current game I have 7 cities at 1AD with not very welcomy land and I have only 62 beakers at 60% and I don't think I can work more cottages then that. I'm guessing I can but I must miss something. Maybe my cities are too far from each other I have the reflex of getting near to perfect city placement, that means more maintenance overall. This might cost me the beakers for my science.
It still never stopped me to get a domination victory around 1750AD or a 1940AD Spacerace victory.
Thanks cabert. Yes, I am aware of deficit research. In fact, I like goody huts especially for the gold. When I get settlers or workers (especially settlers), it seems to throw me off a little in my overall plan.
I think my biggest problem, and correct me if I am wrong, but in my current game, I'm at 175AD or around there, my beaker rate is 133/turn but I only have 5 cities and not all of them have libraries.
I think I am expanding too slowly. Would that be fair to say? I was thinking that by 1AD, I should have 6 or 7 cities. Does this should right? I figure with 6 cities and 6 libraries, I should have any problems.
6 cities at 1 AD is certainly achievable (though a bit hard on quick speed), and a better goal than 100 beakers/turn
now I'm no expert, but i certainly agree with this.
the only time the science slider is at 0% is with a SE, but even then raising it to complete a tech in a shorter time is a good idea.
Also, it may be, even if you do get techs from the defeated AI, that you will nearly always be behind other peaceful, builder AI civs who have been accumulating new techs during your war. It will eventually lead to your defeat as you will find yourself too far behind the AI tech leader.
It's probably a good idea to rely on your own research capabilities in most situations.
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