Condensed tips for beginners?

[SS-18 ICBM]

@SS-18 ICBM
You'll find that prince difficulty is almost as easy as noble.
I've won most of my prince games without building almost any wonder, so you don't have to worry too much about that. I think Kremlin was an usual suspect in my Willem games, but as far as the early wonders go, you can skip them without much of a price. Also, if you're near someone such as HC, you can skip them altogether, wait for him to build some, and war him.

I find wonder-based strategies have too much dependence on unknown factors, so I don't build them too much.

I've also won most of my prince games before I had understood the value of hereditary rule in this game, so you can even go for early currency rather than early monarchy, although I tend to think monarchy is important in all difficulty levels.

Definitely. My tech rates and overall productivity surge because of HR.

But anyway, worker techs, then defense, then pottery, then either myst-med or poly-priest-monarchy or writing-maths or alphabet, depending on neighbours and your wish to pursue other math techs-currency-col.

Usual tech route for me.

Going for monarchy also means you can grab the Oracle, which on prince you can get rather late, it's very rarely that the AI takes it before you. The one thing you have to keep track, in case you're reading the strategy tips of higher level players, is that you won't be able to tech trade anything early in the game, so researching alphabet yourself might be needed, if you want to trade and have trading partners available.

Interesting. Guess I should use the Oracle more. I always do get Alpha relatively early.

Anyway, prince is rather easy, you most likely don't need advice if you can already beat noble Maybe one advice would be to play as a strong leader first, to get your confidence on, but, on the strategy side...

Have fun!

Thanks for the response.

 

[roguepro92]

my axeman with 26xp all 10% bonus just lost to a swordsman with 4hp left.

wow this game is amazing...

edit: swordsman with 2 in city attack vs a warrior in city with jungle defence.....my swordsman lost.

 

[Sisiutil]

roguepro: your post does not list, nor take account, of defensive bonuses from things like fortification, hills, forests, city walls, castles, culture, etc. And did you use siege weapons to reduce or eliminate those bonuses and weaken the defender?

You're right, though, the game is amazing. It's been out for nearly five years and I'm still playing it.

 

[CivilizedTiger]

@roguepro92
Also, you do have to realize that the RNG will go against you some time. But honestly, if you see 5% chance of losing, no matter how low that seems to you, you have to understand that, according to the law of large numbers, eventually you will lose one such battle with only 5% loss chance.

In times like these, just remember the instances in which the RNG was too kind to you. Just remember all of those battles with 80% chance of winning in which you won more than 4/5 battles. Or remember those battles with 30% chance to win which you won, in the early rush, simplifying your job a lot.

~~~
Now, for a question of my own:
I've noticed that after a while, my troops stop receiving xp from certain won battles. For instance, my warriors only receive xp from animals so long as they've only advanced one level. My chariots only receive xp from killing axemen only as long as they've only advanced 2 levels. What I mean is that if I play as a non-aggressive leader and I use troops which weren't trained at a barracks, warriors can only get 2 promotions off of animals and chariots can only get 3 promotions off of archers/axemen. The thing with the archers doesn't bother me that much, but the one with chariots is quite annoying when trying to get great medics.

Is there anywhere I can read about this aspect of the game and what it takes to keep troops going further in the promotions ladder?

 

[cabert]

~~~
Now, for a question of my own:
I've noticed that after a while, my troops stop receiving xp from certain won battles. For instance, my warriors only receive xp from animals so long as they've only advanced one level. My chariots only receive xp from killing axemen only as long as they've only advanced 2 levels. What I mean is that if I play as a non-aggressive leader and I use troops which weren't trained at a barracks, warriors can only get 2 promotions off of animals and chariots can only get 3 promotions off of archers/axemen. The thing with the archers doesn't bother me that much, but the one with chariots is quite annoying when trying to get great medics.

Is there anywhere I can read about this aspect of the game and what it takes to keep troops going further in the promotions ladder?

barb XP are limited 5 xp for animals, 10 xp for other barbs
If you want a great medic, you'll need a great general anyway, and barb fights don't give great generals

 

[CivilizedTiger]

Oh, I didn't know that barb xp was limited. Thank you! I'll stop keeping my highest promo chariot on the defense against axemen and cycle them around.

I know that I need a GG for the super medic unit, unfortunately , but I thought I could get the heal while march promo before the GG. It doesn't make much sense, though. :|

Anyway, thank you very much for the info! It will help me stop wasting xp when I'm isolated. (as in my current game, in which I've killed 4-5 barb axemen with my 3 promo chariots, so quite a lot of xp wasted)

 

[roguepro92]

@roguepro92
Also, you do have to realize that the RNG will go against you some time. But honestly, if you see 5% chance of losing, no matter how low that seems to you, you have to understand that, according to the law of large numbers, eventually you will lose one such battle with only 5% loss chance.

In times like these, just remember the instances in which the RNG was too kind to you. Just remember all of those battles with 80% chance of winning in which you won more than 4/5 battles. Or remember those battles with 30% chance to win which you won, in the early rush, simplifying your job a lot.

yea i kno. just pissed me off that it happened TWICE in ONE round out of TWO attacks i chose to do xD
2 for 2 pwnd.

 

[Ergo Sum]

Soo I'm playing an earth map, 34 civs mod with 12 random unrestricted leaders on prince. Time victory is the only way to win. Shaka of America-in-Rome controls and/or vassalized the entirety of Europe and Africa, including Stalin of Portugal-in-Russia, so his score is pretty inflated. I have a significant tech lead, complete with monopoly on nukes (for now). I have been warring on Mansa Musa of Native America-in-China - three wars so far, the first two of which I have taken ~5 cities each, capturing mainland China and restricting Musa to Siberia. Musa was able to take out a few units each time, as normal, but my problem is he refuses to capitulate. He vassalized Bismarck of Zululand-in-Japan, and he has curiously hung onto him despite suffering huge losses. My power has steadily been about 1.5 that of Musa, and my third war involved a Golden Age's worth of nukes falling on Native America, but he still refuses to capitulate. I was counting on vassalizing him in order to pad my score and gain a great tech partner to prepare for war on Shaka (who possesses twice the strength I do, frustratingly, and a manufacturing capacity that rivals mine.

Should I give up on Musa and just reduce Shaka to radioactive slag while I still have nukes to tout around, or is there some way to rectify the glitch (or something else) which is causing Musa to refuse capitulation?

 

[Malchar]

Oh, I didn't know that barb xp was limited. Thank you! I'll stop keeping my highest promo chariot on the defense against axemen and cycle them around.

I know that I need a GG for the super medic unit, unfortunately , but I thought I could get the heal while march promo before the GG. It doesn't make much sense, though. :|

Anyway, thank you very much for the info! It will help me stop wasting xp when I'm isolated. (as in my current game, in which I've killed 4-5 barb axemen with my 3 promo chariots, so quite a lot of xp wasted)

You can get march (healing while moving) without a GG. The only medic promotion that requires a GG is medic 3. Also, you can stack the medic promotions with woodsman 3 on the same unit for even more healing. The only other healing is from combat IV and combat V, but it isn't as powerful as having a medic.

Edit: @Ergo_Sum
It's not exactly a glitch. The more vassals an AI has, the more powerful they feel. Even if they are losing a war, they will be much less likely to capitulate. Besides, if he capitulates to you, then you'll surely win.

 

[Sisiutil]

Should I give up on Musa and just reduce Shaka to radioactive slag while I still have nukes to tout around, or is there some way to rectify the glitch (or something else) which is causing Musa to refuse capitulation?

I'm not sure what the in-game mechanic/programming is, but in my experience a civ with a vassal simply will not capitulate, not ever, no way, no how. You'd have to reduce Mansa Musa below the land/pop caps for his vassal to break free, and even then, the vassal has to choose to break free. Either keep pounding down Musa until his vassal breaks away, or kill him off, or make peace and change targets.

 

[huh?]

I'm not sure what the in-game mechanic/programming is, but in my experience a civ with a vassal simply will not capitulate, not ever, no way, no how. You'd have to reduce Mansa Musa below the land/pop caps for his vassal to break free, and even then, the vassal has to choose to break free. Either keep pounding down Musa until his vassal breaks away, or kill him off, or make peace and change targets.

As well as, the last civ (not under your control) will not capitulate if it will give you a conquest victory.

 

[Silu]

Civs that have vassals can capitulate - in that case the vassal breaks free (often being willing to also capitulate to you immediately). Having a vassal boosts the master's ego unrealistically much, which is why this happening is somewhat rare.

The last Civ not under your control will vassal to you normally. They don't refuse just to deny you a Conquest victory.

 

[CivilizedTiger]

The last Civ not under your control will vassal to you normally. They don't refuse just to deny you a Conquest victory.

But you have to be at war with them first, right?
I'm asking because I missed conquest with Willem after vassaling all map except my only continental neighbour, who was friendly towards me, whom I couldn't attack because I had forced peace for another few turns, and who wouldn't friendly-vassal because his civ feared that the Dutch Empire was too powerful for it.

I guess I could have been more careful and had war with Asoka as well, but... just want to know... what you've said, is it always true with nations you're at war, if you already have, say... 3 vassals and 2 enemies are off the map?

(btw - second win on Monarch... both wins with Willem, both heavy cottage economies used to rushbuy lots of advanced troops and conquer the world... I should start trying other strats out as well, right? )

 

[Silu]

But you have to be at war with them first, right?
I'm asking because I missed conquest with Willem after vassaling all map except my only continental neighbour, who was friendly towards me, whom I couldn't attack because I had forced peace for another few turns, and who wouldn't friendly-vassal because his civ feared that the Dutch Empire was too powerful for it.

I guess I could have been more careful and had war with Asoka as well, but... just want to know... what you've said, is it always true with nations you're at war, if you already have, say... 3 vassals and 2 enemies are off the map?

The last "free" Civ can also peacevassal to you, even propose it themselves. A quick way to a Conquest victory is to play against Mansa Musa on a Duel map and expand quickly There's a (somewhat silly) mechanic that sometimes prevents Civs vassaling to a much more powerful Civ; this has nothing to do with victories being near.

In a nutshell: AIs do not act drastically differently just because someone is near a victory. The only exception is the "We'd rather win the game tyvm" refusal of trading spaceship techs, plus AIs are a bit more likely to declare war on Civs they perceive are very near a victory. You can get the same diplo response as above for peace bribes as well, but this actually has nothing to do with victories and only about the relative land areas of you and the Civ you're trying to bribe.

 

[player01]

1 question, how can i maintain my economy and research while at war?

 

[kcd_swede]

1 question, how can i maintain my economy and research while at war?

You should not just stockpile units in prep for a big war, you shold stockpile cash, as well. Capturing cities will refill your coffers, so as long as you are on the offensive it should not be too hard to keep it going. Once you find that you cannot keep moving the front, you should try to get a cease fire or peace, in my experience. If you are losing the war and cannot get any city-capture cash, you have bigger problems than keeping your economy going. Forget your economy for a moment and whip/draft out some units and win the war, or pay for peace. Losing a war is Game Over.

Note, no matter what you do, war will slow your economy and research. So if you are at war and your rivals are not, you will fall behind. No problem... If yuo make enough gains by warfare, you can easily overtake them again once peace is made. Keep wars quick. Bribe other civs into other wars so you don't lose too much ground on your rivals. Keep some specialized commerce/research cities inside the protected borders of your territory and let them carry the economy (working commerce tiles) while your other cities focus on war production (working hammer tiles).

Most of all... go to the War Academy and read up on war strategies. You should have an objective in any war, and once that objective is met you shou8ld end the war, basically. Most everything else is situational.

 

[Malchar]

If you stockpile cash before a war, at the very least, you'll be able to buy your way out of the war if you need to. At the end of the war, if you didn't need to bribe any AI, then you can do deficit research until you use up all the extra gold.

 

[h@@kon]

Great Person Farm:

As i have read; these should be made in foodrich areas. Often these have very few hammers.

But you also would like to produce national wonders there. Do you make workshops just before you are going to produce something, and then farm it when finished? Or do you make some workshops to be in the great person farm the whole time? (vanilla version)

 

[kcd_swede]

Great Person Farm:

As i have read; these should be made in foodrich areas. Often these have very few hammers.

But you also would like to produce national wonders there. Do you make workshops just before you are going to produce something, and then farm it when finished? Or do you make some workshops to be in the great person farm the whole time? (vanilla version)

If you have idle workers, temporary workshops is a decent way to do it. Also, priest/engineer specialists can help some, if you are not concerned about popping a GPro or GE. Otherwise a technique known as "whip overflow" will greatly speed most builds. Longbows are good, you can 2-pop whip them for like 29 hammer overflow fairly quickly, let the LB be built and then next turn there is extra hammers going into the NE or whatever, then queue-swap to another LB (after 1 turn to let the hammers get into the NE)... wash rinse, repeat as necessary.

Note... I am not sure if the latest patch of vanilla (1.74) still keeps production bonuses on whips (it was removed in BtS later versions)... in which case your hammers for building a wall with stone bonus of +50% give that bonus to the overflowed hammers, too. Got abused so much you can search it under "Golden walls"... named such since the max overflow can never exceed the amount of hammers required to build the object, and any extra above that becomes gold to your treasury. It was an exploit to get cash.

 

[h@@kon]

If you have idle workers, temporary workshops is a decent way to do it. Also, priest/engineer specialists can help some, if you are not concerned about popping a GPro or GE. Otherwise a technique known as "whip overflow" will greatly speed most builds. Longbows are good, you can 2-pop whip them for like 29 hammer overflow fairly quickly, let the LB be built and then next turn there is extra hammers going into the NE or whatever, then queue-swap to another LB (after 1 turn to let the hammers get into the NE)... wash rinse, repeat as necessary.

Note... I am not sure if the latest patch of vanilla (1.74) still keeps production bonuses on whips (it was removed in BtS later versions)... in which case your hammers for building a wall with stone bonus of +50% give that bonus to the overflowed hammers, too. Got abused so much you can search it under "Golden walls"... named such since the max overflow can never exceed the amount of hammers required to build the object, and any extra above that becomes gold to your treasury. It was an exploit to get cash.

Thanks! I beginning not to feel as a newbie any more. Your words made sense to me .

I'm thinking of getting BtS. Is there people who has BtS who still keeps playing Vanilla, or is it a common feeling that BtS is much better?