Consolidated Cuteunit Wants for the First 25%

On inside the borders action:

As Cuteunit said, the events can handle this, and it is interesting. But Roghar is right, when he says that it, as you proposed, would only increase micromanegement. It must have a bigger strategic role. A suggestion:

Event:
Vault of Echoes

Type: Vault

Where: At the game's start, vaults are scattered through the map. If a square, where there is a vault, is worke for more than 30 turns, and the civ which works it have a state religion, a vault event can happen.

What it does: It spaws in the square a Omnius Presence unit, and as many Echoes as the civ, where the event happens, have cities. It starts the Echoes of the Past event. The square where it happens recives 2 more commerce.

Omnius Presence:
Cannot move
Cannot be attacked
As long Omnius presence remains in the fat cross from the city, this city gains 4 unhapiness "points".
It is destroyed if the host civ is destroyed.
As long as it exists, there is a chance of the uncommon event "The Omnius Presence Spreads" to happen.

Echo:
It have the greatest attack, defense and movement value between the units the civ, where the event happens, can build. It have also Combat III.
I doesn't attack cities.
It cannot leave the cultural border of the civ where it is spawned, if it is destroyed, the echoes are also destroyed.

The Omnius Presence Spreads:
Uncommon Event
Where: Inside the fat cross of any city of a civ where there is already another evil presence.
What: Spawns a Omnius Presence in the square of the event.
Option: If the city have acess to spiritual mana, and have a mage guild, you can pay a heavy gold price to prevent the Omnius Presence of spawnning.

Echoes of the Past:
Type: Vault Quest.
Destroy all Echoes inside your cultural borders.
Prize: Destroy all the Omnius Presence inside your cultural borders. A Vault Effect.

Vault Effect: When a Vault Quest is completed, the civ which completed it receives a random Vault Effect, which emulates the effects of the ancient knowledge obtained from the vault. Some simple examples:

Path of the Eternal Warseeker: The civ can build one more immortal.
Memory of Perfection: +5% Research in all your cities.
On the Heavenly Bureaucracy: -5% maintance in all your cities.
Theory of Reality Revision: Halves the price for the upgrade from Adept to Mage and from Mage to Archmage.

What are tha Vaults? Like the dragons, they are remaining weapons from the Age of Dragons. As the Dragons were the big big tanks, the vaults were the bombs, dropped inside enemy territory through some variant of The Nexus.

Why include the Vault Events? Punish overcomittment of powerful units in war. If such a event happen, and all you high level units are commited to destroy your enemy capital, you have a problem. Vault Events should be big and nasty, and can scale up, so they can happen in early game and in the late game.

Why not tie them to the Armaggedon Counter? The higher the AC more chaotic the world become. But it is controlable. The Vault Events are a bit too. Stay without State Religion and you're safe from them and gains a nice diplomatic bonus. It helps also the Council of Esus. Is that player a Esus player or he is only afraid of the nasty landmines from the Age of Dragons. The sun spell Revelation reveals them too. Sheaim's world spell, World Break, could have also a chance too trigger each still hidden vaults, which are in a civ with a state-religion. A Octopus Overlord civ may receive a special event which locates one or more vaults throughout the world.

Flavourfully, why they happen only in state-religion civs? The war in the Age of Dragons was a war between gods. Because of this, it is natural that the weaponry from that age was designed to react to a god power or another being wielding divine power. After the Compact, the god's power to interfene in Erebus was limited by the number of mortals who worshipped them. So a nation which followed one God would be blessed by it, and the divine power would be everywhere. The vaults react to this divine power that blesses the land.
 
only AI lets you get away with starting in tundra and sticking with two cities all the way up to commune with nature :P that must have taken forever..

neat event idea bebmatos. I really wish therre was inborder stuff going on like that.
 
I don't really agree that starting spots need to be equalized. I understand the point behind it, in multiplayer it's imbalancing for one player to start in a good spot and another to start in a bad spot. It seems to me, though, that this is almost strictly an MP issue; in single player it doesn't matter that much and getting bad starting spots sometimes makes the game more interesting (variety!).
So, I would propose that people playing competitive MP games use Balanced map script for map generation. If it turns out that Balanced isn't really balanced or is somehow inadequate, maybe new map scripts could be made for equal starting positions.
On the other hand though, I think I could still support moving tree chopping up to, like, Mining.
 
You make it sound like you're playing single player games on chieftan or something, sword ^^ if nothing is a problem and you've never been screwed by a bad starting location.

Noble actually, and I believe everyone who has played the game enough has gotten screwed on their start at one point or another. That doesn't mean it should be made easier to deal with. What's wrong with a challenge? Like I said before, you're trying to make the game go faster and you have the ability to do that already without reworking things. I think you and I have different ideas of what constitutes a problem that merits a game change and what constitutes part of the challenge of the game at it's basest level. Also, the reason maintenance costs aren't a problem for me is because I make sure to live within my means. I don't build more cities if I'm not in the green for the most part. I don't build a bigger army than I need. It's simply a matter of exercising restraint when building things. Like I said in my previous post, if raging barbs were beefed up, or even if tougher barbs were more common, I may very well change my mind about that, but as it is, army costs never cripple me because I don't build more soldiers than what I need to defend with and to have an army capable of attacking and razing/capturing cities and meeting enemy stacks in the field.

You obviously never played multiplayer, being setback 100 turns because your area is all forest or your against the ocean or in a tundra fishing area compared to rivers or floodplains and gold, isn't right, you shouldn't ever feel like you need to reload the map because of what happens before turn 0 starts. And don't start about moving the settler around, your capital is suppose to have 20 squares of useble land on most maps, but if your pushed against a ocean and the only way out is though desert or jungle, you would rather not risk a 5-10 turn walk to find useble land which isn't already covered in other players or barbarians.

Obviously not, even though I've made several posts on these boards stating I pretty much only play multi-player...try again. ;)

I think for multiplayer reasons scout's shouldn't be able to take cities, but hunters and above should, you wouldn't really be taking a city guarded by anything using a scout anyway, but in the end it doesn't matter much.

I think you're looking at the scout unit as an individual and not as a scouting party. Again, to me, this boils down to experience. If my scouting party manages to fend off hordes of barbarians, wild animals, giant spiders, etc, why can't it take on your warriors? I don't know about others but my scouts never attack cities until they have quite a few promotions, because a fortified warrior has a 25% city defense bonus and most likely a 25% fortification bonus on top of any cultural bonuses they may be getting, not to mention one more point of strength. It's hard to believe that scouts are doing that much damage early on unless of course those cities aren't defended or they are defended poorly and the attacker brought a stack of scouts, which the AI at least does like to do at times. I generally view those stacks of scouts as free experience, much like barbs. One for one, your warriors defending your cities should beat scouts just about every time, unless said scouts are highly promoted.

Some units need to lose the Require x resource requirement or have it easier to gain, I'v never once built stonewardens because there are only 1 or 2 gems in the entire world, and there on the opposite end, and ritualists or conjurer can have whole fun little gameplans based around them, but you can be screwed before turn 0, instead you could just have a bonus for having the resource, like if regeants owned, you get access to a free promotion for units needing it.

I feel your pain here. It's pretty rare that I get ritualists for exactly that reason. I think if those resources were a little more common though it would fix things. Stonewardens I seem to get pretty frequently, but generally when I'm following RoK, I get some earth mana which helps a lot.

Another option are special national wonders or worker buildings to uncover resources, or random events in the wilderness to collect seeds and bring them home, or a rich vein in a hill somewhere that will uncover a material if built on.

And a easier option might be to have optional resource requirements, much like a axeman needs copper OR iron in normal civ, a ritualist could use regeants OR incense OR maybe dye, a stonewarden could use gems OR silver OR maybe stone.

City ruins spawning barbarians sounds neat, and if the ruins for destroyed cities would spawn barbarians, that could add a nice effect for the Clan, burn and pillage and have the barbarians hold the land for you.

These are pretty good ideas that I could definitely live with. I've always been a fan of being able to find new resources, and there is no reason why a civilization wouldn't be able to move/spread crops or create additional ones as long as the land was available.

On the other hand though, I think I could still support moving tree chopping up to, like, Mining.

Honestly, it wouldn't hurt my feelings to move it as far as crafting, but I'd keep the production bonus from chopping at bronzeworking. The elves might not seem so overpowered that way.
 
think you're looking at the scout unit as an individual and not as a scouting party. Again, to me, this boils down to experience. If my scouting party manages to fend off hordes of barbarians, wild animals, giant spiders, etc, why can't it take on your warriors? I don't know about others but my scouts never attack cities until they have quite a few promotions, because a fortified warrior has a 25% city defense bonus and most likely a 25% fortification bonus on top of any cultural bonuses they may be getting, not to mention one more point of strength. It's hard to believe that scouts are doing that much damage early on unless of course those cities aren't defended or they are defended poorly and the attacker brought a stack of scouts, which the AI at least does like to do at times. I generally view those stacks of scouts as free experience, much like barbs. One for one, your warriors defending your cities should beat scouts just about every time, unless said scouts are highly promoted.

What about scouts requiring a specific Promotion to be able to attack cities?

I'm glad most seem to agree that chopping should come much earlier and not from bronze working.

If the Singleplayer snobs think that there isnt a need to have starting locations able to be more equalized it really doesnt matter... singleplayer isnt competitive and it isnt cooperative. You're not holding your teammates down because you started in Siberia and they started in California and you're not stuck producing warriors in 22 turns while they're cranking out champions in 3 by the same turn.

Adding to the list of wants: Remove the free Great Sage from Writing. Burning straight to Writing gives a HUGE early research boost to the civ that does it thanks to the free +50% research from the academy, and if they get another GS they can just settle him... at that stage you are likely to have like 25 research per turn, so the result is jumping to over 40 per turn, far higher than everyone else. I've never failed to dominate a game when I've done this.
 
If the Singleplayer snobs think that there isnt a need to have starting locations able to be more equalized it really doesnt matter... singleplayer isnt competitive and it isnt cooperative. You're not holding your teammates down because you started in Siberia and they started in California and you're not stuck producing warriors in 22 turns while they're cranking out champions in 3 by the same turn.

Both single player and multiplayer are valid but different modes of gameplay. I think that they should both be as enjoyable as possible, but not to the exclusion of the other. I'm not sure if I being implicated in that statement or not (I'll assume not), but if you think that multiplayer takes precedence over single player simply because you're playing with other people, you're full of bologna.
 
Adding to the list of wants: Remove the free Great Sage from Writing. Burning straight to Writing gives a HUGE early research boost to the civ that does it thanks to the free +50% research from the academy, and if they get another GS they can just settle him... at that stage you are likely to have like 25 research per turn, so the result is jumping to over 40 per turn, far higher than everyone else. I've never failed to dominate a game when I've done this.

The Great Library is also on this tech as well. Beelining for Writing gives you a leg up in builidng the prereq libraries to build the Great Library before your opponents. This gets you further ahead in the tech race. This is compounded even more if you are able to run the additional sage specialists that become available with the Elder Counsel and the Library in several cities.

edit: I'm not completely sold though. Dominating the tech race seems like a viable strategy. When you receive the free Great Sage, everyone gets a message, so they know that you have the tech. In multiplayer, people have the option to dogpile you to prevent your tech lead.
 
I'm saying a thalidomide baby could succeed in single player through enthusiastic flailing of it's tragic flippers against the keyboard, Ringtailed. SP doesnt particularly need fairness because the AI makes so many mistakes that success is almost handed to you.
 
I'm saying a thalidomide baby could succeed in single player through enthusiastic flailing of it's tragic flippers against the keyboard, Ringtailed. SP doesnt particularly need fairness because the AI makes so many mistakes that success is almost handed to you.

Who's the snob now? :)
 
Sorry haven't had time to read the whole thread but some of these ideas are great.

I agree with Jenks about more animals and Cuteunit with undead even demon barbs. I think they would add a whole new flavour and difficulty level to endless streams of orc warriors, "Ohhh watch out here comes a lizardman" and mage training goblins. :)

As a suggestion, rather than Magister Cultuum idea of 3 seperate barb races, is it possible to link barb type spawn with the AC counter eg:-

< 10 animals only
< 30 animals and Orc type barbs
< 60 animnals orcs and undead
> 60 orcs undead and demons

with spawn type linked to terrain ie lizardmen from jungle, orcs from hills, wolf-riders from tundra. Thus making specific areas of your empire have a certain flavour.

Another idea is to allow orc type barbs to create their own dens, giving rise to Orc strongholds or the existing lizardman ruins.... possibly only gaining the ability to do so after razing a city.

Anyways... Good like guys
 
January 30: It would be great if Earth sorcery ( at 2 or 3, either way) had a version of Vitalize that when used on flatland would create a hill, and if used on a hill would create a Peak. Likewise it would be great if Water had a spell to create Land tiles out of Coast. Like the old terraform mod.
 
January 30: It would be great if Earth sorcery ( at 2 or 3, either way) had a version of Vitalize that when used on flatland would create a hill, and if used on a hill would create a Peak. Likewise it would be great if Water had a spell to create Land tiles out of Coast. Like the old terraform mod.

I'm all for being able to terraform land more than what we can do now. I'd love to see it.
 
I'm thinking I'll make Earthquake and Tsunami have a chance to randomly do this. I'd like to give you a little more control, but it seems like it would be too unfair to the AI.

I'm also planning to go ahead and add Ice mana and spells, which would include terraforming good lands into tundra/snow/ice. The Ice 1 spell would just be basic terraforming of one tile into tundra/ice, but the Sorcery III Ice spell I'm considering, Blizzard, would be able to all nearby tiles (even water) tiles into snow/tundra (passible land), in addition to doing a lot of cold damage to units nearby. However, this terriforming would be temporary, using the End of Winter mechanic to make the tiles revert back after a certain (random?) number of turns.

I may also make the terriforming of other spells (especially tsunami) temporary.
 
Admittedly I'd rather the terafforming be permanent. Being able to paint rivers in your land, make hills, even make Peaks (make your own thermopylae) would be wonderfully fun, strategically. Then units that can cross peaks would be a lot more useful, and Meteor and Vitalize wouldnt be alone on the throne of tier 3 sorcery.

After all, if someone builds a land bridge to you, your mages could sink it with Tsunami. Mage wars++ how cool is that
 
Death III is also up there...at least for the first 3 archmages (archmagi?).
 
Not even a murmur from kael :/ I hope I didnt create a "place where ideas go to die and be ignored" type thread.
 
I think he ignores both of our ideas :)
 
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