Convert to Jesus or Die!

[Swedishguy]

Huh? Wow, I must be missing something. We christians have baptisism gangs roaming the streets dunking people against their will?

Man, I got to sign up for that duty. Sounds like fun.

But truthfully, people get baptized because they ask to be, or a parent asks it for a child.......not because its forced upon them.

If a kid is being baptized they can't leave the church until they're 18 without their parents permission. What if they suddenly realize it's just BS when they're 13-14? But really, it is forcing people!

 

[Katheryn]

If a kid is being baptized they can't leave the church until they're 18 without their parents permission. What if they suddenly realize it's just BS when they're 13-14? But really, it is forcing people!

Source, please, otherwise it is just unsubstantiated claim (ie fabrication).

 

[Swedishguy]

Source, please, otherwise it is just unsubstantiated claim (ie fabrication).

It's in the swedish Code of Laws. For practical reasons it's not available from the internet and thus I can't help you. Sorry.

 

[warpus]

God is not like a human friend or father, though. He is a God, and he deserves to be worshipped as such.

I find that concept to be incredibly archaic and I don't see how God could view it as anything else either.

Why would you be unwilling to recognize the inherent superiority of a being that is inherently superior? Or do you really think that humans are as good as it gets?

From my point of view.. I accept that Stephen Hawking is superior to me in many ways, yet I would never worship him.

I mean that God is morally superior because not only does he know what is best (as I have a grater understanding of morality than a child) but because he always does what is right. He may not determine morality, but He always does it.

By definition, because he's unable to do otherwise, but because he does not wish to do otherwise?

Also, if God does not determine morality, but absolute morality exists, where did it come from?

But truthfully, people get baptized because they ask to be, or a parent asks it for a child.......not because its forced upon them.

I was baptised against my will!

If my parents had waited until I was old enough to decide for myself I would have said "hmm. no!"

Alas the Church insists that baptism happens when the child is too young to make the decision for itself.

If a kid is being baptized they can't leave the church until they're 18 without their parents permission.

Huh? I stopped being a Christian when I was 15.

EDIT: Gotcha, it's a law. Can't you stop going to church while still technically being a member? That'd be good enough for me. Who cares if you're a member of the Church technically if you don't participate in any of their rituals and don't go to the masses?

 

[Katheryn]

I don't give my soul to God because I want to get a free ticket to Heaven. Christ gave his life for me, and that's why I serve him with the life I have.

The famous 1 John 4:19 is a great example of this message. "We love, because he first loved us." We aren't supposed to be kind to our neighbor and serve God just so we can get into Heaven first-class. It is because he gave us an example of how to love others, and I'm called to follow it.



God is not like a human friend or father, though. He is a God, and he deserves to be worshipped as such.

Loving God, worshipping God and conforming to Christian values are simply a REACTION to the free gift of God.

Therefore, it is an oxymoron to say that anyone could compell someone else to doing such things. It is simply impossible.

The Bible says that if you believe, you will be saved 'AND YOUR HOUSEHOLD', which means that, as a believer, your children are under your protection, under your umbrella.

Then, there comes a time when these children become adults, when they must choose for themselves. There is a weaning process that occurs, which includes doubt, new searching, and of course, rebelling against that umbrella.

The kids have to learn for themselves what it means to be an adult. Many times, after these kids become parents themselves, they realize that life is a miracle, and there is after all a benevolent God.

That is just what the Bible says, anyway. That is why you see doubt in puberty.

 

[Swedishguy]

Huh? I stopped being a Christian when I was 15.

Did your parents say ''No, warpus! You will be a christian till the day you die!''?

 

[puglover]

Quoted for truth. One of my favorite writers. I was this close to writing this thread off. Excellent name drop!

You know a Christian writer is successful when he has earned the admiration of nearly the entire Christian community and many non-believers.

Did your parents say ''No, warpus! You will be a christian till the day you die!''?

And then they tied him to the wall and forcefed him nothing but Bible verses 'till he was 26-and-a-half years old.

Seriously Swedishguy, stop being ridiculous. You are looking for ways to denouce Christianity. You aren't seeking truth, you're seeking your truth.

 

[warpus]

Did your parents say ''No, warpus! You will be a christian till the day you die!''?

No, but they said: "Tom! Get the hell out of bed and come to mass with us", mistaking my lack of belief with a sense of rebellion.

 

[skadistic]

Did your parents say ''No, warpus! You will be a christian till the day you die!''?

My father tried to but found my willingness to be free of religion and backing that up with force more then enough reason to grant me my own decision. Some family members are still hell bent on treating me like I am a christian. Its pathetic really. Funerals arise and automatically I'm spoused to be an active part of it. Then they call me disrespectful for not doing it and call them disrespectful for not asking first. You'd think after 15 years they would learn. Other atheist members (mostly younger ones) fear coming out.

 

[Red Door]

If a kid is being baptized they can't leave the church until they're 18 without their parents permission. What if they suddenly realize it's just BS when they're 13-14? But really, it is forcing people!

That's BS and you know it. It's against the rules to post false information knowingly. I have friends who were disgusted with the Church, so they've left, with their parents consent.

 

[Swedishguy]

That's BS and you know it. It's against the rules to post false information knowingly. I have friends who were disgusted with the Church, so they've left, with their parents consent.

OK, since I couldn't support my statement could you kindly do so...?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

From my point of view.. I accept that Stephen Hawking is superior to me in many ways, yet I would never worship him.

Stephen Hawking is still human. And I get the impression that you are using a definition of worship that I am not.

By definition, because he's unable to do otherwise, but because he does not wish to do otherwise?

By choice - God could do evil if He chose, although He would thus more or less cease to be God.

Also, if God does not determine morality, but absolute morality exists, where did it come from?

Whatever produces the greatest good in the long run - helping humans to become like God. The reason that our system of ethics may differ from true morality is that our system only takes into account the consequences that we can observe - so something that helps us now, but will harm us in the next life, will appear to be good. God, havig greater knowledge of the eternal consequences of an act, can tell us that it is immoral even if it appears to us not to be.


?[/QUOTE]

 

[MobBoss]

If a kid is being baptized they can't leave the church until they're 18 without their parents permission. What if they suddenly realize it's just BS when they're 13-14? But really, it is forcing people!

Come on. Kids being kids get forced to do a lot of things. Now go clean your room.

 

[Xanikk999]

Come on. Kids being kids get forced to do a lot of things. Now go clean your room.

They shouldnt be forced to follow your religion though. And certainly not be punished for not abiding towards "christian values", unless those values are secular values too.

 

[MobBoss]

They shouldnt be forced to follow your religion though. And certainly not be punished for not abiding towards "christian values", unless those values are secular values too.

Of course a parent should be able to raise a child as they see fit. Period.

If that means being raised according to the parents beliefs, then /oh well.

Who said life was fair?

 

[Xanikk999]

Of course a parent should be able to raise a child as they see fit. Period.

If that means being raised according to the parents beliefs, then /oh well.

Who said life was fair?

So they should be able to do things that are morally wrong in raising the kid? Such as hitting them hard and abusing them?

 

[MobBoss]

So they should be able to do things that are morally wrong in raising the kid? Such as hitting them hard and abusing them?

Thats why entities like Child Protective Services exist. But taking a kid to church isnt abuse nor morally wrong. Sorry.

Also, I spanked my kids when they were bad. Do you call that abuse?

 

[Katheryn]

No, but they said: "Tom! Get the hell out of bed and come to mass with us", mistaking my lack of belief with a sense of rebellion.

Perhaps because they were paying your bills and paying for your food and you were living in their house? Perhaps your father wanted to be the head of his house, not you. When men pay the bills they tend to be that way.

 

[warpus]

Stephen Hawking is still human. And I get the impression that you are using a definition of worship that I am not.

He is still human, yes, but I don't see why a supernatural entity deserves more devotion than a natural entity. Well, it makes sense to you, but it doesn't make sense to me To me, I treat everyone equally unless they prove to me that they deserve special or less than special treatment.

I would be willing to respect, admire, and even praise somebody, but I wouldn't consider any of that worship.

Say that you were to worship me. What would that entail?

From my point of view it would entail you dropping to your knees and saying how great I am. Isn't that what you do in church? That's what worship is to me.

By choice - God could do evil if He chose, although He would thus more or less cease to be God.

How could he cease to be God? Isn't it a "once God, always God" kind of thing?

Whatever produces the greatest good in the long run - helping humans to become like God. The reason that our system of ethics may differ from true morality is that our system only takes into account the consequences that we can observe - so something that helps us now, but will harm us in the next life, will appear to be good. God, havig greater knowledge of the eternal consequences of an act, can tell us that it is immoral even if it appears to us not to be.

Okay. But then wouldn't that imply that morality is relative? What you're saying seems to be that morality is relative to God, but we need him to guide us and make sense of it all.

That actually sounds a lot more sensible than a "morality is absolute" point of view.

 

[skadistic]

So forcably brainwashing unwilling participents is moral.