COTM 09 First Spoiler: Ancient Age

[dmanakho]

I have to agree with stanNP - sure it might not be the most effecient way to win the game, but it's great fun I at least sometimes choose my actions by what "feels" right, rather than what would earn me the most Jason points..

Nobody can argue with such a statement....
Everybody should play the game in a way he/she enjoys to play it.

 

[solenoozerec]

On Berserks: In order to prevent myself from spoiling here I am limiting my opinion on this matter to the following statement:
In COTM9 berserks are significantly more efficient than knights.

But sure, if somebody prefers knights, they can use knights. Someone may prefer tanks. Whatever. Personal tastes vary.

 

[Renata]

Hmmm, yeah, let's not discuss knights versus Berserks in the ancient age spoiler. The next one's due on about 24 hours.

Renata

 

[solenoozerec]

Hmmm, yeah, let's not discuss knights versus Berserks in the ancient age spoiler. The next one's due on about 24 hours.

Renata

I will not qualify for that. Not soon. RL demands. So I better shut up for a week or so.

 

[juballs2001]

oh, how do i submit my game now that i have completed it, and what saves do i need to submit?

 

[al_thor]

I have just finished this game (victory), but with a (as expected), low score. A challenging map to be sure, which made the game very interesting, at least until Navigation. Here are my notes from the AA:

2030 BC - My 5th Curragh finally sights land. Initially, no other Civs to be seen.

1830 BC - Meet the Hittites. He has all 1st tier Techs. We only have Alpha, Warrior, but are just 2 turns from Writing. Purchase Pottery from him for 172G.

1725 BC - Meet the Dutch. He has Bronze & Wheel, lacks Masonry, CB.

1600 BC - Meet Babylon. He knows Writing & all 1st tier Techs.

1550 BC - Meet Zulu. Big Trading round:
1. Masonry from Babylon for 1GPT, 104G
2. Bronze & Wheel from Dutch for Masonry, 2GPT, 81G.
3. Iron Working from Hittites for Writing, 25G
4. 48G from Dutch for Writing.

1525 BC - CB from Zulu for Writing, 37G

1400 BC - Meet America. Mysticism & 50G for Writing.

1325 BC - Due to the high losses of my Curraghs, I had planned on going for MapMaking as a free tech from Philo. However, I changed my mind and Took COL instead, then setting the Science to minimum on Republic. In retrospect, NOT going for the Republic slingshot was a good thing, as both the Hittites and Babylon learned Philo on the same turn as I did. I immediately sell Philo to Zulu for HB & 12G. America has a monopoly on Poly. I have a monopoly on COL. Finally, a 2nd Curragh makes it across. I think that I lost about 8 so far.

1250 BC - Meet China & Celts:
1. Math from Celts for Philo, 11GPT, 119G
2. Poly from America for Math, Philo, HB, 173G
3. 36G from China for Mysticism.
4. 22G from Dutch for Mysticism.

1125 BC - Celts, China & Dutch have MM. I still hold my monopoly on COL.

Things are pretty quiet for quit a while.

875 BC - Hittites demand $$ from me. I refuse, he declares war. Alliance vs Hittites, 18G from Babylon for Poly.

850 BC - Dutch have learned COL. He lacks Poly.
1. Embassy with Dutch for 59G
2. Embassy with Zulu for 50G
3. Embassy with China for 51G
4. Alliance vs Hittites, 22G, from Dutch for Poly.
5. Alliance vs Hittites, 18G from Babylon for Poly.
6. 458G from Celts for COL.
7. 190G from America for COL.

750 BC - Back to +21G/turn as my 11GPT with Celts finally ends. Treasury at 784G.
1. Declare war on Celts.
2. China will form Alliance vs Celts with me for free, but I give him HB & 2GPT.

370 BC - Zulu learns Construction.
Construction from Zulu for COL, 314G

350 BC - Cancel alliance w/ China vs Celts.
1. Peace, Literature, Monarchy from Celts for Construction, 265G.
2. 65G from Zulu for Literature.
3. 52G from China for Philo.
4. America & Celts ally against Zulu.

330 BC - Dutch & Hittites make peace. Hittites want $$ from me for peace. Nothing doing.

230 BC - Babylon learns Currency & goes to MA. I wonder what free tech he got?
My 'stats' at this point:
Republic learned in 1 turn (no one else has it).
9 workers, 9 cities, 2 warriors, 2 Archers, 4 Spear, 2 Galley, 2 Harbors, 2 Barracks, 4 Temples, 1 Granary, Gems, Ivory, Horses.

1. Currency from Babylon for 2GPT, 338G
2. 332G from America for Currency.
3. Enter the MA.

Criticisms welcome.
I never did build the SOZ, as I couldn't bear to spend the resources.

 

[planetfall]

It's been ages since tried GOTM or COTM, so thought I would give this game a try. Especially since I have never played vikings.

I played to 1200AD and quit. I doubt I will play again as the slight gain in playing is outweighed by the tremondous unfun game play. My basic problem is with the "learning method". This is like playing chess just below grand master instead of slowly allowing the player to advance in skills. If you have motivation and much much patience and encouragement, then that approach may work. But I suspect for most people, they would say forget it. A better learning approach is the succession GOTM. It's only disadvantage is slower game play, but the fun element remains.

What makes this unfun:
1. Difficulty level is advertised as Monarch, when mods make it more like Emperor.
2. Game is advertised as being setup to encourage use of UU, Bezerker. In actuallity, the world map makes UU obsolete by the time it can be effective.

Remedies would have been super simple:
1. Don't present difficulty as "Monarch" but rather Monach Plus
2. Add stepping stones, where fun is in finding the stepping stones. This would have allowed a use of the UU.

Obviously most of the posters on this forum don't share my views because they enjoy hard challenges. However, I am sure there are lots of players who have tried a COTM and given up out of frustration. An extra worker, carrugh, and warrior will not fix the inherent problems with this game.

For new/returning players why speak in cryptic terms? You may know of Barb bug. Well I don't, how about something as simple as a link with the details of the bug. I have no problem editing an ini file, but not going to until I understand what the edit is fixing.

Right now my sole interest in this COTM is reading some of the logs next month to see how others handled this game. Usually the logs aren't helpful, but hopefully this time will be different.

PF

 

[MeteorPunch]

What makes this unfun:
2. Game is advertised as being setup to encourage use of UU, Bezerker. In actuallity, the world map makes UU obsolete by the time it can be effective.

PF

I mostly agree with that statement. Perhaps would've been better to raise difficulty and have the UU more useful. But, I'd say the UU is still *useful* - just not as much.

 

[al_thor]

Planetfall:
I agree that it was FRUSTRATING at best not being able to 'pounce' on the AI with the powerful Berserk. Trust me, I sent TWELVE Galleys full of Spear, Berserk, and Horse over to do battle with the hated Hittites. Guess how many made it? One. With 2 Spears in it. I managed to disconnect one of his 'extra' resources. Did I quit? No. I hung in there and promised revenge when I could safely sail the ocean. Was I rewarded? Yes.

In retrospect, I probably could have reached Navigation much quicker if I had not let my anticipation get the better of me and wasted all of those shields on the galleys and units.

Yes, this was much more difficult than your average Monarch-level game, but I found the challenge to be interesting. You must learn to take full advantage of your civilizations traits - in this case, the extra $$ from the coastal cities was a huge factor. Harbors and Markets were, at least in my case, TOP PRIORITY, and very soon I was rolling in the cash. Money is Power. Money and having all contacts as early as possible is paramount.

 

[Darkness]

What makes this unfun:
1. Difficulty level is advertised as Monarch, when mods make it more like Emperor.
2. Game is advertised as being setup to encourage use of UU, Bezerker. In actuallity, the world map makes UU obsolete by the time it can be effective.

The first statement is partially true. The difficulty is above monarch (due to the map), but definately not emperor (not even for the predator game).
The second statement is nonsense, but that'll have to wait until the second spoiler.

 

[AlanH]

Moderator Action: The Berserker is a Middle Age unit. As requested, please do NOT discuss the way it worked on this map until the appropriate spoiler.

 

[Drugged_Unholy]

This is my first attempt at this level, and I'm enjoying it despite not doing very well.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

For new/returning players why speak in cryptic terms? You may know of Barb bug. Well I don't, how about something as simple as a link with the details of the bug. I have no problem editing an ini file, but not going to until I understand what the edit is fixing.

You can find out about the barb problem and fix HERE.

Usually the logs aren't helpful, but hopefully this time will be different.

It really surprises me that you feel this way. I don't mean to sound like a broken record (for those who play lots of G/CoTMs), buy have you read the posts by SirPleb? He is not the only one that posts good summaries, of course. There are many others. Also, if you have a question about someone's spoiler or your game, other players are usually great about answering as best they can.

EDIT: Also, if you wish to improve your game and get the most out of GOTM, you should consider participating in the Quick Start Challenge (QSC). This new feature of the site allows for tremendous game comparisons: not only in comparing your opening moves to others, but in comparing the results everyone achieved by 1000bc. You can find a link to the QSC on the main GOTM website. Look at a QSC for one of the past few games, and you will see how many great analysis tools there are.

 

[Redbad]

Criticisms welcome.

I just can't resist this invitation. It'll be only my view on certain aspects of your game, so please just take notice of the things you think migtht be hulpful for you.

1830 BC - Meet the Hittites. He has all 1st tier Techs. We only have Alpha, Warrior, but are just 2 turns from Writing. Purchase Pottery from him for 172G.

I suppose you wanted the Hittites not to know Writing, otherwise I'd say: Why trade money for Pottery when two turns later Writing could have given you at least two 1st tier techs, and money as well?

China will form Alliance vs Celts with me for free, but I give him HB & 2GPT.

? Having an alliance with him should make Mao gracious, I see little reason for extra gifts. Maybe HBR was ment militarly, but 2 gpt is beyond me. If you like Mao to have HBR you could gift him 100 gold and then sell HBR for all the gold he has. The gift of 100 gold normally improves the attitude of an AI towards you.

330 BC - Dutch & Hittites make peace. Hittites want $$ from me for peace. Nothing doing.

In your war with the Hittites you had alliances with Dutch and Babs dating from 850BC. It would have been better to make peace with the Hittites when the alliances expired (in 430BC). The Hittites would still have been at war with Dutch and Babs and would wellcome a peace with you, maybe even pay for it.

9 workers, 9 cities, 2 warriors, 2 Archers, 4 Spear, 2 Galley, 2 Harbors, 2 Barracks, 4 Temples, 1 Granary, Gems, Ivory, Horses.

It looks (at least to me) just a series of unrelated items that you've build. You 're lacking goal (direction) IMO. Having a specific goal is very helpful by determing what to build and when to build it.

The temples in size 6 cities on Moarch with two lux are a waste of shields (unless you pursue 100K) and they cost you upkeep. You should be better of with markets (for money) and libraries (for researchgoals). And then study towards navigation and invention if you intend a berzerker onslaught. If you're going for any non-military goal prebuild universities and study towards eduction.

What's in the CV of spearmen; there seems to be little to spear. The republic is imminent now. With 9 cities you have upkeep for 9 units. I'll be horrified to pay 2 gold upkeep for the spears (and the warriors). By the time you have to fear the AI or the AI should fear you than start building troops, and mostly assault troops imo.

And finally:

I never did build the SOZ, as I couldn't bear to spend the resources.

It's a matter of opion. In my game (20K) the SoZ was obviously a must-have. But in any case: SoZ is cheaper than 4 temples and cost no upkeep. On the contrairy: at the end of my game it paid me 14 gpt due to tourism.
Up until metallurgy you get every five turns a Ancient Cavalry. Though militarly not all that useful in this game, it still disbands into 10 shields. So as iI said in the pregame thread: disbanding the AC means SoZ gives you 2 shields per turn.

 

[Renata]

@ juballs -- Go to http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/gotm.php and fill out the form. If you have any problems uploading, feel free to PM one of the staff for help. Good luck.

Planetfall, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the game.

Renata

 

[planetfall]

The first statement is partially true. The difficulty is above monarch (due to the map), but definately not emperor (not even for the predator game).

Technically yes, but it felt more like an emperor level. Later I called it monarch plus.

The second statement is nonsense, but that'll have to wait until the second spoiler.

I don't understand how, but you have the same problem I have. Trying to allude to forbidden topics and discussion. I await your explanation in the next thread.

PF

 

[planetfall]

You can find out about the barb problem and fix HERE.

Ok, thanks.

It really surprises me that you feel this way. I don't mean to sound like a broken record (for those who play lots of G/CoTMs), buy have you read the posts by SirPleb? He is not the only one that posts good summaries, of course. There are many others. Also, if you have a question about someone's spoiler or your game, other players are usually great about answering as best they can.

EDIT: Also, if you wish to improve your game and get the most out of GOTM, you should consider participating in the Quick Start Challenge (QSC).

Eons ago, I did try some QSC games, but at that time learning was limited. I have not checked recently to see what new tools are available. There were 2 reasons I tried this game: 1. to see what it is like to play the vikes and 2. to then read SirPleb's log and see if I could get a hint of how my play could be improved. I'll read some logs of this game next month and see if logs have changed. Maybe the problem is logs are dry and you need to read the threads to understand the logs.

Question: how do you read the logs and review the threads of the game to improve your play? What do you use as a trigger, ah hah, this I have to remember next time?

PF

 

[planetfall]

Planetfall, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the game.
Renata

Well actually, the ancient era was interesting. It was just because my expectations were so different from the game for the MA play, that the game fell apart for me. A very creative map, as advertised.

I look forward to reading the next thread to see how others dealt with the setup but don't plan to replay. I may next month if I see something interersting in the log files to try to mimic.

PF

 

[Redbad]

Bonus gold start for anyone who guesses how I am trying to win...

That's easy:

Curragh 2 report landfall .. will examine new coast, seeking towns to raid ... I mean talk to ...

and

1050 BC Stats:

3 cities

You are planning to snatch the brown-shield from SirPleb!

 

[planetfall]

Checking out the stickies for COTM there is an article about enhanced naval movement for predator class. Is enhanced naval movement now the standard?

PF