COTM 09 Pre-game Discussion

[Più Freddo]

Atypical configuration + 80% Ocean + 3 Billion years + skillful diplomacy needed + fury of berserkers needed + predator galleys is equalizer + extra curragh is benefit

Something is isolated -- we, our opponents or the resources -- but not all, since that would be an archipelago. Most likely, the opponents are not isolated (would make it too easy), but there will be a run for resources on outlying islands. A job suitable for berserkers if we are too late to come there first. Whether we ourselves are isolated? That would go against our militaristic trait.

Strong civic development needed + Extra worker is benefit + Jungle at doorstep

Is there a prize hidden in those jungles? Or is fresh water available only on the other side of the desert south of our city?

We are on a hill, there are hills in the northwest, to the west our view is blocked by hills, and hills are hard to work. But hills we will work only in the middle ages. Perhaps we are isolated after all, on a biggish kind of island.

 

[Shinatoo]

I've played three games now under the same conditions and tried the Republic shlingshot in all of them. Very easy to pull of even with limited resources, but in all three I've been beaten to the Great Lighthouse by about 7 turns. Even in the game where I had a cow.

Each game the owner of the Great Lighthouse has declared and early war on me (after demanding the republic) and trigered my GA to early. I think I'm going for mapmaking first so I can start settling other islands and get a jump on the Great Lighthouse and take my chances with the Slingshot.

Is republic the best government anyway for this civ and map. Or would Monarchy work better.

Thoughts?

 

[Mistfit]

I also played, or should say tried playing, a few test games but I could not roll any with no bonuses at the start (like most of our XOTM games)

I kept getting starts like this one. Have you ever seen such a herd of cows?

 

[Abegweit]

@Shinatoo

IMO Republic is better in almost all circumstances, but if you want to try Monarchy, you have an alternate slingshot to use. <Polytheism> <Philosophy> <Monarchy> works too. Following this route gives you a pre-build (Oracle, ToA) for your Great Lighthouse as well. Sometimes you can trade for Polytheism while researching Philosophy. That's risky though.

In either case, the slingshot should definitely be used to get out of Despotism. The governments are important and expensive techs.

 

[solenoozerec]

Is republic the best government anyway for this civ and map. Or would Monarchy work better.
Thoughts?

IMHO a choice between republic and monarchy depends more on skills of a player and difficulty of a game. By difficulty, I mean a combination of difficulty level, map and starting position. With monarchy it is usually easier to play, but with a few exceptions (some player achieve very good results with monarchy) republic gives better results.
In other words if you think that this game will be very hard for you, Monarchy could be a good choice. If you think that you will not have any problems with winning in this game (based on what you see, of course), then Republic could be more effective.
Therefore, if somebody says:

IMO Republic is better in almost all circumstances

It means that this person has no problems with winning in almost all circumstances .
Not true for everyone.

 

[Abegweit]

Would that it were true

Edit:

It really means that I think you will normally get better results with Republic, not that I always win. In general, this is true. Using Monarchy is a kind of crutch to deal with happiness problems, kinda like the GLib is a crutch to deal with science problems.

 

[ainwood]

Re Republic vs Monarchy:

The main differences in terms of management are happiness and unit support. Being a Monarch game, happiness shouldn't be that difficult to control, and if there are a few luxuries around, then it becomes even easier.

I will probably go direct to republic, but there will be a few conditions to this:
1.) Some luxuries to compensate for the fact that you can't use military police in a republic.
2.) No extraneous defenders in my cities. I never build them anyway, but unit support under a republic is 2 GPT. Why pay 2, 4 or 6 GPT / town if they are never in danger?
If its an archapelago map, then even better for republic (IMHO) - clean-out any civs that we may share our island with, then get rid of any and all defenders to save costs. The commerce bonus for republic will help kick the research along, because at monarch level (and depending on the map) the research pace won't be that great.

 

[dmanakho]

Corruption is also much greater on Monarchy.

but if you decided to play AW variant Monarchy is the government of choice in early ages.

 

[Shinatoo]

Just played one with Map Making first (no bonuses in starting city other than on a lake). No problem winninghte sling shot and actaul had the Lighthouse before Republic.

I had the same problem finding a generated map without tons of bonuses. Freakist thing I've ever seen. Had one start with a Wheat, 3 cows and the rest were bonus grassland out of all 14 land tiles and one fish and one wale in the sea. About killed me not to use it, but I wanted a more realistic practice for the GOTM.

 

[jafa]

@ Ainwood - what is the release time for us NZ'ers?

 

[Tone]

@Misfit:
1. Don't suppose you have the seed number for that map, do you?
2. Why are you building a granary first? Surely you should claim those cows with the Germans(?) so close to you!

It's always the way when you try and play a poor-ish start as a practice game-cows and luxes wherever you go

 

[Mistfit]

I had actually started the granary before seeing the cows. I then quit the game when I saw all of the food because it would not have been good practice. I have a save from it I think, but not the 4000bc one. How do I extract the seed number?

 

[ainwood]

@ Ainwood - what is the release time for us NZ'ers?

Depends - AlanH will probably release this, so I presume it will be about 7:00 - 9:00 PM tonight.

How do I extract the seed number?

See here.

 

[Jove]

@King of America: You're right, Vikings are Seafaring in C3C. I'm still not used to conquests. I think I've said this before, but I don't believe everything I read, and neither should you- especially in my pre-game posts! I'll be quiet now and wait for the save

 

[Redbad]

@jove
once again a try at 100K or will you suprise us?

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

I was looking for something that would give me the chance of a 'suicide ship' surviving at sea/ocean. I did some testing with Curraghs for a Seafaring nation and estimated 25% to sink at sea and 40% chance to sink at ocean. Is there anything out there will detailed percentages?

 

[MikeH]

There was this article in the Strategy section by Ginger Ale:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=109955

 

[solenoozerec]

One can only imagine these days what it must have been like to set sail in open ships so far into the uncharted North Atlantic, knowing not where or even whether land and safety would be found. Perhaps you'll get a taste of it in this game.

That’s it. The Great Lighthouse will certainly be a priority for me. Now will try to before the buttle begins.

 

[Jove]

@Redbad: No surprises, I'm going to lose again! But seriously... I'll settle for 100k spectator this time. I'm actually planning on experimenting, not really going for a specific victory per se. Probably space. I had a daydream, the Vikings developed their tech to the point of intergalactic travel, only they still only had those giant axes. They set up a huge monolith on a distant planet and waited for a few hundred cavemen to gather, then they opened the door and started slashing! So anyway, not enough focus right now for another 100K.

 

[King Of America]

Does an oasis count as a supply of fresh water -- i.e., if we settle nest to the oasis can we build to 12 without an aqueduct?