pre-release info Norman - Exploration Age Civilization Discussion

[Siptah]

Isn't it already known that you just have to play the game as Amina to unlock them?

I assume that there are ways to unlock each civ regardless of leader and previous civ.

Boring but also possibly a little out of the player's control depending on spawn...

Unless you can trade for the resources (which, obviously, wouldn't work for terrain based unlocks).

 

[Leucarum]

I assume that there are ways to unlock each civ regardless of leader and previous civ.


Unless you can trade for the resources (which, obviously, wouldn't work for terrain based unlocks).

yeah, trading eases some spawn problems, but I'd hope it's more like "build 4 libraries" or " have only a single city" that are very plannable

 

[Krikkit1]

Horse = Mongols
Camels = Abbasid
Iron = Nornans
Navigable rivers = Songhai

Please, not! That would be, oh, so boring. But sadly, I would say chances are high that this is exactly what happens in the game.

I could see it being a little more complex
ie Mongols 3 horses
Normans Iron and Coastal settlement with 3 walls
Abbasids Camels and a 30 pop city or 5 Altars

 

[Siptah]

I could see it being a little more complex
ie Mongols 3 horses
Normans Iron and Coastal settlement with 3 walls
Abbasids Camels and a 30 pop city or 5 Altars

I hope FXS sees this more akin to your ideas than my fears.

 

[Leucarum]

This at least should be easily modded...

 

[stealth_nsk]

One of their starting bias is Iron. I wonder if that means they could be unlocked by having 3 Iron resources (Mongolia mode)?

I don't think starting bias are linked to unlock conditions. Based on civ focus, I'd expect Normans to be unlocked with building enough walls and/or fortifications.

 

[Krikkit1]

I don't think starting bias are linked to unlock conditions. Based on civ focus, I'd expect Normans to be unlocked with building enough walls and/or fortifications.

Starting Bias should be part of unlock conditions. Especially if it is something specific like a a resource. (But it shouldn't be the only part of the unlock... unless it is massively important like I imagine Mongol-Horses / Inca-Mountains would be)

If starting as Abbasid guarantees you Camels than gameplay unlocking Abbasid should require Camels (in addition to other things)

Probably for Resources, Coast, Nav. River, and maybe some less normal Terrains (Desert/Tundra/Mountain)

 

[stealth_nsk]

Starting Bias should be part of unlock conditions. Especially if it is something specific like a a resource. (But it shouldn't be the only part of the unlock... unless it is massively important like I imagine Mongol-Horses / Inca-Mountains would be)

If starting as Abbasid guarantees you Camels than gameplay unlocking Abbasid should require Camels (in addition to other things)

Probably for Resources, Coast, Nav. River, and maybe some less normal Terrains (Desert/Tundra/Mountain)

Starting bias should match unlock conditions only if they are tied to the large part of the gameplay. For example, Mongols are heavy focused on cavalry, so it makes sense to have horses in both unlock and start. On the other hand, have no significant connection to iron. So I don't see any reason to use it for unlock.

P.S. I also don't see the reason to make iron part of Normans' starting bias, but starting biases are not always linked to civ specifics, so it's ok.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Starting bias should match unlock conditions only if they are tied to the large part of the gameplay. For example, Mongols are heavy focused on cavalry, so it makes sense to have horses in both unlock and start. On the other hand, have no significant connection to iron. So I don't see any reason to use it for unlock.

P.S. I also don't see the reason to make iron part of Normans' starting bias, but starting biases are not always linked to civ specifics, so it's ok.

While it's not a core component of their gameplay, Iron has an empire-wide combat strength bonus that stacks, so starting near multiple Iron tiles would be advantageous for warmongers.

It's the same for Horses. Mongolia doesn't *need* horses anymore than anyone else, but the Horse resource bonus helps them and it's Firaxis's way of saying, "Go forth and lay waste to your enemies!"

Similarly, Camels are a bonus resource that helps you accumulate more resources. Abbasids will have an Advanced Start with a trade advantage.

 

[stealth_nsk]

While it's not a core component of their gameplay, Iron has an empire-wide combat strength bonus that stacks, so starting near multiple Iron tiles would be advantageous for warmongers.

Yeah, but Normans seem to be more focused on defense than on traditional warmongering.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

P.S. I also don't see the reason to make iron part of Normans' starting bias, but starting biases are not always linked to civ specifics, so it's ok.

While it's not a core component of their gameplay, Iron has an empire-wide combat strength bonus that stacks, so starting near multiple Iron tiles would be advantageous for warmongers.

As far as resources go, are some required for units like the Chevaler needing iron?
It could also be a precursor for those wanting to go into a hypothetical Modern Age Britian civ?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Yeah, but Normans seem to be more focused on defense than on traditional warmongering.

I wouldn't say so. Yeah, the buildings are defensive, but everything else says offense.

It looks designed to play like how the Normans really operated. Take land and build a Motte and Bailey there to secure it.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

As far as resources go, are some required for units like the Chevaler needing iron?
It could also be a precursor for those wanting to go into a hypothetical Modern Age Britian civ?

There's no indication that units have a resource requirement in Civ 7 that we have seen so far. Maybe in the Modern?

 

[Siptah]

There's no indication that units have a resource requirement in Civ 7 that we have seen so far. Maybe in the Modern?

I thought they said that requirements don‘t exist anymore in one of the early videos.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I wouldn't say so. Yeah, the buildings are defensive, but everything else says offense.

It looks designed to play like how the Normans really operated. Take land and build a Motte and Bailey there to secure it.

We need to see how other exploration conquest civs look like. Normans have unique ability and a civic to increase Chevaler combat strength, plus reduced maintenance for cavalry and additional Chevalers from unique district. On the other hand, the rest of the features are either not related to military or totally defensive. We may see more aggressive civs with unique commanders and military buildings.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

There's no indication that units have a resource requirement in Civ 7 that we have seen so far. Maybe in the Modern?

I also remembered that iron, as well as coal, was needed to build railroads in Civ 6. Since we've seen railroads available in the base game maybe iron could be used for that in the Modern?

We need to see how other exploration conquest civs look like. Normans have unique ability and a civic to increase Chevaler combat strength, plus reduced maintenance for cavalry and additional Chevalers from unique district. On the other hand, the rest of the features are either not related to military or totally defensive. We may see more aggressive civs with unique commanders and military buildings.

Since Naval commanders are a thing in this age, I expect a civ like Spain could get a unique one.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

We need to see how other exploration conquest civs look like. Normans have unique ability and a civic to increase Chevaler combat strength, plus reduced maintenance for cavalry and additional Chevalers from unique district. On the other hand, the rest of the features are either not related to military or totally defensive. We may see more aggressive civs with unique commanders and military buildings.

They also have a Happiness bonus in the Motte, good for warmongers*, a tradition that helps them get culture from captured cities, a tradition that helps them get culture from having traditions (a side bonus, since traditions make their Chevalers stronger), another Happiness source in city halls with another Tradition.

These are all helpful for warmongery.

*Surplus Happiness fends off penalties from war weariness and going over your settlement cap, useful for going on a conquering spree.

 

[stealth_nsk]

They also have a Happiness bonus in the Motte, good for warmongers*, a tradition that helps them get culture from captured cities, a tradition that helps them get culture from having traditions (a side bonus, since traditions make their Chevalers stronger), another Happiness source in city halls with another Tradition.

These are all helpful for warmongery.

*Surplus Happiness fends off penalties from war weariness and going over your settlement cap, useful for going on a conquering spree.

Yep, but all this works for a purely defensive civ as well. If you compare Normans to Persia, Normans are pretty peaceful - Persia has more than half of all features related to war, including direct war support increase and bonuses from conquered cities.

 

[thecrazyscot]

I think it's preferable for each civ to be flexible enough for different playstyles, no? Yes, Normans have lots of synergies with being a warmonger, but they also have enough bonuses that aren't exclusively aggressive that they could still be played by a builder/trader/etc. IMO all the civs should support multiple playstyles and so I hope we don't see a 100% anything civ.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I think it's preferable for each civ to be flexible enough for different playstyles, no? Yes, Normans have lots of synergies with being a warmonger, but they also have enough bonuses that aren't exclusively aggressive that they could still be played by a builder/trader/etc. IMO all the civs should support multiple playstyles and so I hope we don't see a 100% anything civ.

Each civilization can be played with any playstyle, but some, like Persia have abilities which just don't come into play unless you do conquest. You still could play them peacefully, just without any bonuses from those abilities. On the other hand, all Normans bonuses are useful if you play peacefully - you could build strong defense with much less investments than other civs.

The initial discussion was about whether iron should be required for Normans unlock and my point is what if it's used, it should be reserved to more aggressively focused civ, at the level of Persia. Normans seem to be more focused on fortification, that's how they could be unlocked.