Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Renata said:
What might eighty per cent water and a non-standard configuration mean?
COTM 09 Pre-game Discussion
- Thread starter AlanH
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What might eighty per cent water and a non-standard configuration mean?
solenoozerec
Stranger
MinnesotaAbegweit said:What might eighty per cent water and a non-standard configuration mean?
Spoiler :
A'AbarachAmadan
Deity
Capt Buttkick said:
When going for Domination, I usually do cut off after Chivalry, or if I must I go to Cavalry. I've rarely had to go further on Deity and below. On this one it will obviously be Invention, but wonder about those 'harder' comments.
@ comments on research: Max researching for a few turns save. Hmm. New component for my game. Historically if I thought it would take 40+ I would ALWAYS take the gold.
Now I just need to convince myself to go for Pottery first this time; something else I never do. COTM08 was one of the first times I didn't go for the Slingshot at all; the path I took didn't help initially like I expected.
Sabre
Cheftain
With 80% water I just can't picture any configuration would be anti-beserk. I've always liked the Vikings, I'm intrigued by the map setup and I finished gotm39 a long time ago so I think I'll make my first COTM try. As for starting moves, I like Xevious' plan of moving the settler SW not only for revealing a bit more terrain at the start but also to free some land to the north for some towns. At the start position those northern towns would have to be 3 tiles away which is a bit too close for me. My start builds will probably be Warrior, Curraugh, Warrior, Settler.
My feerless (foolish?) predictions on the map: With only 20% land and the hard Monarch comments I'm willing to guess that there may be no fresh water. No rivers, no lakes, maybe even no food bonuses - at least in our neck of the woods. If you combine that with us being isolated (what if our island is only a little bigger then what we are seeing?) and everyone else together merrily trading this could indeed be a very tough Monarch. I don't see land barbarians as a problem. They should be squeezed out pretty quickly. Sea barbarians will be a different story and could be a real nuisance when it comes time to ship my Berserkers around. Another possibility is that the other civs are far away and require serious ship chaining or Navigation to reach which, when combined with our research lagging the others, could limit the use of our Berserkers.
My gotm with the Vikings was a 5CC 20k win. My last gotm was also a 20k attempt and I'd like to see if I can build on that here so I think that will be my goal with the capital in a possibly good location. It will depend on the surrounding territory. If there is little other good terrain I don't know if I want to tie up a good portion of it with 1 city. With so little land I think a 100k try would be a fun challenge. I imagine it would take a lot of towns very tightly packed and some serious warmongering.
My feerless (foolish?) predictions on the map: With only 20% land and the hard Monarch comments I'm willing to guess that there may be no fresh water. No rivers, no lakes, maybe even no food bonuses - at least in our neck of the woods. If you combine that with us being isolated (what if our island is only a little bigger then what we are seeing?) and everyone else together merrily trading this could indeed be a very tough Monarch. I don't see land barbarians as a problem. They should be squeezed out pretty quickly. Sea barbarians will be a different story and could be a real nuisance when it comes time to ship my Berserkers around. Another possibility is that the other civs are far away and require serious ship chaining or Navigation to reach which, when combined with our research lagging the others, could limit the use of our Berserkers.
My gotm with the Vikings was a 5CC 20k win. My last gotm was also a 20k attempt and I'd like to see if I can build on that here so I think that will be my goal with the capital in a possibly good location. It will depend on the surrounding territory. If there is little other good terrain I don't know if I want to tie up a good portion of it with 1 city. With so little land I think a 100k try would be a fun challenge. I imagine it would take a lot of towns very tightly packed and some serious warmongering.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
What about the entire coastline except ours being Mountains? 
Sabre
Cheftain
Doc Tsiolkovski said:What about the entire coastline except ours being Mountains?
You know I never thought of that!
It would really suck to be the civs with that many mountains though. 
Redbad
should have shaved
I've heard some people (Denyd, Abeqweit and Sabre) say that 80% water favours the number of coastal towns.
I'm not convinced . I think the shape of the land has much more impact on the number of coastal towns then the ratio between water and land. For Example: if you have a spiral landshape with 60% water than you get more coastal cities than with a circular landmass in a world with 80% water.
I'm not convinced . I think the shape of the land has much more impact on the number of coastal towns then the ratio between water and land. For Example: if you have a spiral landshape with 60% water than you get more coastal cities than with a circular landmass in a world with 80% water.
solenoozerec
Stranger
Redbad said:
In theory you are correct.
But my guess that it has something to do with random map generation.
My understanding is that XOTM maps are generated randomly and then edited. So unless this map was very extensively edited 80% water should result in higher amount of coastal surface.
i think that every xotm gives you ability to exploit the UU and the traits of the civ with you are playing with. i mean it wouldnt be nice to be aztecs and play 80% of water arhipelago map, or to play with england on a 60% water pangea map starting in it's center. 
Wanderer
King
So..... when do we think we'll see the save?
COTM's start on 1st of a month, is that right?
COTM's start on 1st of a month, is that right?
Sabre
Cheftain
I live in the Eastern Time Zone and the saves are usually available around 3am on the 1st (or 15th for GOTM) for me. For Cape Town that should be around 10am on the first.
Redbad
should have shaved
Thinking of 20K:
I just couldn't resist the temptation of building quietly at home a happy, peaceful 20K while at same time bring death and destruction abroad.
Going for 20K makes it unnecessary to capture what you conquer. Just send out those longboats and berserks and let them raze and pillage.
Hmm, which city for 20K.
3 Bg's, oasis, mined elephant and hill will give 13 shields/turn at size 6. It looks like a reasonable production for AA-wonders.
Should it be Trondheim or Bergen? Low-food and high-shield will mean I'll have a temple in Trondheim before Bergen can be founded.
Moreover if we are alone on a low-food, smallish island it will take forever before a FP can be build. (The FP is the besides a palace-prebuild
the great advantage for Bergen as 20K home). On the other hand maybe there is fresh water out there for Bergen.
I make up my mind: I'm letting the things I can see prevail over the uncertainty: it will be Trondheim.
Hmm, Golden Age.
A despotic GA will increase the above mentioned 13 shields to 15 shields (if we replace the mined elephant for a mined hill). Out of despotism
production will increase to 19 shields. With a aquaduct a GA can peak Trondheim's production to 31 shields. So I don't want an GA to early.
GA-wonders:
Ancient Military: SoZ en G-Wall. SoZ has 3 times the culture per shield as G-Wall, so G-Wall isn't worth considering. Also SoZ is cheap (200s)
which means it can be build quickly, thus early, thus fast doubling bonus. Besides it's gives an ancient cavalry every five turns, which is not
only the strongest unit in the AA, but also disbands into 10 shields. So one could say that SoZ gives 2 shields/turn for a normal improvement.
Ancient seafearing: Colossus, MoM and G-Light.
Colossus is a very good wonder for a 20K, but combined with SoZ it will trigger GA too soon. As I favour SoZ, there will be no Colossus.
MoM is reasonable for 20K: not that much culture, but it's cheap and makes people in the city happy. But GA will still be too soon, so exit MoM.
The G_Light is quite lousy for 20K (as bad an investment as G-Wall). But it's at the end of the AA, so sometimes cascading leaves no other option.
And the G-Light could cause a timely GA and it speeds up the longboats. I will not beeline for it, but perhaps ...
Personaly I think the berserks will chops us into a GA.
Hmm, slingshot
Revolting to republic will increase the number of shields at size 6 from 13 to 15. It also will give a boost to commerce (or if you like research).
Also, it will severely battle corruption and waste. But waste doesn't apply for Trondheim being the captitol. On the negative side it requires resarching
CoL, Philo and Rep. These tech's not only have little relevance for 20K wonders but it also contradict the strategy I have in mind, as I will explain.
So no slingshot for me.
Plans at a Strategical level:
I'm planning on taking a holiday from always rushing through the ages towards the required tech's and asociated goals. This game I like to think the
Vikings are kind, simple people (until Invention who live in a world surrounded by primitive, backward tribes.
So my plan is not to make any early attempts at contacting others. I will send scouting parties later when contacts can be utilised by the G-Lib. When
I meet the tribes I plan to keep techtrading/brokering at a minimum. This will keep the world's technological advancements at a lower pace, which
could favour my timeframes for building wonders.
And besides: I much rather have my berserks being welcomed by people carrying sticks and stones then riding the latest fashion in tankdesign.
The Ancient Age and early Middle Age are very important for ones 20K score. Not only do these ages have many high-culture wonders, but
also will culture build in that period be doubled. (Doubling of culture happens after a thousand years). There are many more turns in a century in
the Industrial and Modern Ages then there are in Ancient and Middle Ages. This will mean that the (doubled) culture from early builds are very
important. So getting a wonder a few turns more early in the AA could be as important as, for example, getting SETI or not.
Plans at a tactical level:
You'll see in my spoiler
I just couldn't resist the temptation of building quietly at home a happy, peaceful 20K while at same time bring death and destruction abroad.
Going for 20K makes it unnecessary to capture what you conquer. Just send out those longboats and berserks and let them raze and pillage.
Hmm, which city for 20K.
3 Bg's, oasis, mined elephant and hill will give 13 shields/turn at size 6. It looks like a reasonable production for AA-wonders.
Should it be Trondheim or Bergen? Low-food and high-shield will mean I'll have a temple in Trondheim before Bergen can be founded.
Moreover if we are alone on a low-food, smallish island it will take forever before a FP can be build. (The FP is the besides a palace-prebuild
the great advantage for Bergen as 20K home). On the other hand maybe there is fresh water out there for Bergen.
I make up my mind: I'm letting the things I can see prevail over the uncertainty: it will be Trondheim.
Hmm, Golden Age.
A despotic GA will increase the above mentioned 13 shields to 15 shields (if we replace the mined elephant for a mined hill). Out of despotism
production will increase to 19 shields. With a aquaduct a GA can peak Trondheim's production to 31 shields. So I don't want an GA to early.
GA-wonders:
Ancient Military: SoZ en G-Wall. SoZ has 3 times the culture per shield as G-Wall, so G-Wall isn't worth considering. Also SoZ is cheap (200s)
which means it can be build quickly, thus early, thus fast doubling bonus. Besides it's gives an ancient cavalry every five turns, which is not
only the strongest unit in the AA, but also disbands into 10 shields. So one could say that SoZ gives 2 shields/turn for a normal improvement.
Ancient seafearing: Colossus, MoM and G-Light.
Colossus is a very good wonder for a 20K, but combined with SoZ it will trigger GA too soon. As I favour SoZ, there will be no Colossus.
MoM is reasonable for 20K: not that much culture, but it's cheap and makes people in the city happy. But GA will still be too soon, so exit MoM.
The G_Light is quite lousy for 20K (as bad an investment as G-Wall). But it's at the end of the AA, so sometimes cascading leaves no other option.
And the G-Light could cause a timely GA and it speeds up the longboats. I will not beeline for it, but perhaps ...
Personaly I think the berserks will chops us into a GA.
Hmm, slingshot
Revolting to republic will increase the number of shields at size 6 from 13 to 15. It also will give a boost to commerce (or if you like research).
Also, it will severely battle corruption and waste. But waste doesn't apply for Trondheim being the captitol. On the negative side it requires resarching
CoL, Philo and Rep. These tech's not only have little relevance for 20K wonders but it also contradict the strategy I have in mind, as I will explain.
So no slingshot for me.
Plans at a Strategical level:
I'm planning on taking a holiday from always rushing through the ages towards the required tech's and asociated goals. This game I like to think the
Vikings are kind, simple people (until Invention
who live in a world surrounded by primitive, backward tribes.So my plan is not to make any early attempts at contacting others. I will send scouting parties later when contacts can be utilised by the G-Lib. When
I meet the tribes I plan to keep techtrading/brokering at a minimum. This will keep the world's technological advancements at a lower pace, which
could favour my timeframes for building wonders.
And besides: I much rather have my berserks being welcomed by people carrying sticks and stones then riding the latest fashion in tankdesign.
The Ancient Age and early Middle Age are very important for ones 20K score. Not only do these ages have many high-culture wonders, but
also will culture build in that period be doubled. (Doubling of culture happens after a thousand years). There are many more turns in a century in
the Industrial and Modern Ages then there are in Ancient and Middle Ages. This will mean that the (doubled) culture from early builds are very
important. So getting a wonder a few turns more early in the AA could be as important as, for example, getting SETI or not.
Plans at a tactical level:
You'll see in my spoiler
MeteorPunch
#WINNING
What victory conditions does this map *seem* to favor? I was personally thinking a conquest victory w/ the monarch difficulty+not too much land to take. Also maybe a 20k culture would be possible. I'm trying to see if any of the pro's can post their opinions of mos likely victories here before the game starts, as I'm just learning that this is an important strategy as any.
MeteorPunch said:
I don't presume to be a pro, but I say every victory condition is possible at this level (monarchy), 80% water or not. Although with the low tile count, culture 100k will be slowed down. Also, the Scandanavians are militaristic and expansionist, neither religious nor scientific, so this will also slow down cultural and science-based victories. So 100k, 20k, Spaceship, and Diplomatic are kind of selected against, although not unattainable. That leaves conquest, domination, and historiographic (cow) victories as the "favored" victory conditions.
King Of America
Warlord
Actually, in Conquests, they are militaristic and seafaring (not exapnasionist) -- which actually makes the case for conquest, domination, or historoigraphic victories stronger.
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
Xevious said:
But you run the risk of losing something that the unrevealed grassland tile NE, NE might have on it: cattle, wheat, bonus shield, tobacco. (Or forest?)
Before I moved the settler SW, I would devise a production plan including cutting down the forest NE and first move the worker into it. Only if the grassland was plain would I lead the Viking people on to 50 more years on the nomad trail in search of a richer land to settle.
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